Comments
PPLVic 3 April group photo Royal Park - details here
re-requirement to notify of new developments
Crimes of Nazis
The end of growth - uneconomic growth
Lebensborn
Requirement to Notify
Ban vehicles in Fraser Island
Sorry I disappointed you, Jay Douglas
Fascism?..Oh please.
The Australian Immigration
Eggs are not essential for health
DERM managing the extinction of dingoes
Lebensborn
The Dalai Lama and Peak Oil
Cruel egg production
"Korea - the Forgotten War" on SBS omits critical facts
I posted the following to a friend after I had watched on SBS's "On Demand Service", part 1 of Korea: The Forgotten War In Colour which was broadcast on SBS Television last Friday 23 March. The on-line broadcast expires in 9 days, so it won't be possible to see it on the Internet after Saturday 7 April. Part 2 is to be broadcast at 9.35 PM on Friday 30 March, tomorrow night.
The documentary has value, but, amongst other omissions, omits
evidence that the Korean War was the continuation of the brutal
suppression of a popular liberation struggle by the US which began in 1945 at the end of the Second World War. The Southern regime was largely comprised of Koreans who had collaborated with the Japanese occupiers.
This is shown in Korea - The Unknown War of 1988 by Jon Halliday and Bruce Cumings. It is 224 pages in total and largely consists of photos The introduction says that the claims made in the book are fully verified in a larger earlier book by the same authors, The Fire in Korea.
Looking on the Internet, it seems that The Fire in Korea is unobtainable. I found a note from a librarian in New South Wales dated 1992 which stated that she could not find a copy in any NSW library.
You can, however, find some traces of this book around the internet. Here is one useful source: "Selections from Jon Halliday and Bruce Cumings, Korea: The Unknown War (London: Viking; New York: Penguin, 1988)."
Successful businesspeople mindlessly optimistic?
Tim's essay does brilliant
French rail pays train-traveller sacked for being late to work
Tunisia rejects sharia law in parliament
ABC misreporting on Syria - caught out here
Here is an example of where the ABC has reported as fact a matter which it previously reported as contested, with no explanation to the listeners for the change.
28 March 2012: 9AM ABC News (heard on 774) reported Syrian troops crossed border into Lebanon. It also reported that Lebanese authorities denied these reports and said that the fighting was on Syrian side of the border.
28 March 2012: 10AM ABC News (heard on 774) only reported allegations that Syrians had crossed into Lebanon and omitted denial from Lebanese authorities. It preceded these apparently biased reports with statements from Hilary Clinton condemning the Syrian regime.
In the above article "Syria -70% vote to end one-party state - why aren't we celebrating?" at , Candobetter has suggested that the European-US military alliance is trying to isolate Iran. I think they are right. ABC reporting bias like this is reproducing a climate of reporting around the western world that could be responsible for creating an impression where invasion of Syria and Iran (like Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan) becomes apparently acceptable and we are drawn into a third world war to make the Middle Eastern oil-states accessible to the European-US aligned corporations. These corporations have old alliances with western nations.
See also: WESTERN PSY-OPS AGAINST SYRIA: When Mrs Assad’s 'Shopping' Becomes a 'Crime Against Humanity' of 27 March - Ed
Marxism and Capitalism both rooted in growth
News from MyEnvironment - VicForests' legal "win"
Anthropocentrism ..... Killing Koalas in the name of healing
Dearest Menkit,
These trees were important for the spiritual health of the NSW health department and the council of the Tweed shire, and now, in my eyes, anyone who uses the Medical centre may be destined to become ill like the Koalas,..... sorry people....
Sorry to THOSE who need the health centre....???
Sorry to the people with little babies bottle fed, choked up on poisonous food chains and sick with constipations and infections from too many processed formulas, processed foods, poisoned water, air and chemicals and ":DEAD" foods that do not truly nourish.
SORRY to the youths who suffer from mental DIS EASE due to an overfeeding of Maccas, soft drinks, media inconsistencies and meaningless lives that cause a fragile brain to shatter into delusion and drug dependencies, ingesting plasticised DEAD foods and living spiritually devoid lives until their whole minds turn to violence, despair and mindless crimes of the insane.
SORRY to the middle aged people ill from living their lies and INDOLENT lifestyles of over consumption of goods made in poor cruel third world economies that rely on slave labour to produce ipods, computers, TVs and cars that everyone "traffics" in here, and
SORRY to the old people with their degenerative disorders from lives full of creating a world that is killing off every single living beautiful creature in order that only those who honour DEAD metal and plastics and poisons made by the blood and sweat of the poor, can "LIVE"....
SORRY to all you egotistical innocents, that crowd into the Pottsville medical centre with complaints that are largely lifestyle driven from living lifestyles that hinge on the destruction of all things GOOD on this planet....
HANG ON!!!!!
I AM NOT SORRY...You are the ones that should be SORRYl!!
I think , when i see what the medical world has done to us, with their drugs, procedures and ever evolving complex methodologies that make people mistakenly believe that they are HEALERS... I THINK, when I SEE this cruel killing of koala habitat , I THINK that I see it beckoning the quickest and most succinctly accurate forms of KARMA.... a balance. A balancing that eventuates in every single person involved in profiting and making a living from this clearing of the Pottsville trees .. soon to be losing their OWN homes, their OWN livelihoods and their OWN means of getting about safely, to find food... living food.
This clearing of the pottsville trees is a PIVOT point for all who govern and lead industries on the tweed. I think that now, it is TOO
LATE for redemption,, by these people who govern the TWEED.
THERE WAS a knowing... an understanding of the eternity about the action that was taken there.
THERE WAS a complete knowledge by ALL INVOLVED...
now YOU all go play a game of golf before booking your holidays to far off islands and luxuriate in your hotel suites......me?, i chose not to play your games, go on your holidays, pursue your DEAD DREAMS.... i chose life, in heaven, with those darling Koalas......
and so it goes........ as Kurt Cobain sang.... where do bad people go when they die? they don't go to heaven where the angels fly.... they go to a lake of fire and fry....cos when they kill koalas, they KNOW WHY.... or sumpthin like that......
I had written an article about those trees on bluecray...a couple of months back:
Community Health and Tweed Coast Koala Populations of 13 January 2012
I went to visit that site, looked at the trees, and saw that there was indeed a way to save them, and still create a medical centre there.......the really sick people are not the ones who will need treatment at the Health centre.... the really sick ones are the ones who allowed the tree clearing to occur......the NSW Health Officials, Department of Planning, the Tweed Councillors and the designers of the Centre....YES, these are the sick ones!!! Well, some of them are sick.... some of them are just plain bad.
al
An economy based on
Greedy Property Council can bugger off to Shanghai
Selfish Verwer and his greedy Property Council can bugger off to Shanghai, where there is concrete aplump - ought to make 'em happy.
This mob is a wrecking ball to Australian values.
Wise and personable Australians put liveability on a pedestal.
Not convinced? Learn from the Chinese Government's infatuation with high rise development and the consequencies. View ABC Four Corners programme aired last night and tell the greedy Property Council their concrete congested vision is unwelcome in Australia.
'The Fastest Changing Place on Earth'
Watch programme: 'iView'
Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria
Australia
But we are being disorganised
Not an oligarchy?
Unusual hope?
Optimism and pessimism
Urgent - Councils should resign from the MAV
How Australian immigration laws leave familiy unprotected
Subject was: agreed! - Ed.Immigration policy is a joke in Australia for the reasons you mention in your article and more.
I married a man who was not yet a permanent resident when he started beating me, my children, was arrested a few times for these reasons and for drug and alcohol related charges.
Subsequently, I withdrew sponsorship and left to protect my children. My cultural community who accepts the abuse of women and children rallied around him and he is still in Australia a year later.
He pays no child support, doesn't want to see the children, has violated restraining orders, pleaded guilty to 2 counts of abuse (against me and our children), has drug charges, is not even an Australian resident and is being protected by my ethnic community. The police lawyers everyone has rung immigration - no-one cares.
IS IMMIGRATION ABOVE THE AUSTRALIAN LAW?
A chorus is starting
Hear William Burke of Stable Pop Party Aust do great interview!
Bob Carr maintains rage against big population - read more
Two things to make you grind your teeth
The real NIMBY is Ms Proust
Is she unconsious?
Environmental vandals VicForests
Somehow the guttless mouthpieses always run the country
Some news for Ms Proust
The Loaded Dog - a chance to comment in the media
Transition Movement A Toxic Anti-Human Dealth Cult?
Consider the source of this propaganda. From what I've gathered this man (I use the term loosely) is a vile pocket minion of the tarsands. In no way is Ethical Oil independent. The Keystone XL corruption proved this. A book coming from someone who "interviewed" occupiers by asking about 20 people at the Occupy Movement if they had enough condoms is not worth the ink. Anyone who throws racial slurs (What racial slurs? - Ed) as a form of debate when met with First Nations death rate concerns during a public forum does not deserve the space you allotted to post his ideals. Yuck.
Some reds also environment aware
Oakeshott and desperate loggers
A sad indictment of an outmoded military training culture
This is a thoughtful, sad indictment of an outmoded military training culture with tragic consequences for all involved.
Tigerquoll has identified various factors needing to be examined in establishing a causal explanation for Julian Knight's behaviour at least, and - by extension - the behaviour of all other rogue soldiers (Linda English, Nidal Malik Hasan, and Robert Bales being three in the US that instantly come to mind) spawned or aggravated by a military training culture badly in need of overhaul.
Tigerquoll seems to be accurately identifying (from his own experience) the potentiating of psychotic acting-out by the effects of institutionalised sadistic abuse. I would add that an individual who takes into military service the emotional damage resulting from a pre-existing emotional history of physical/sexual abuse (e.g. perpetrated within family, extended family or school settings) is inevitably vulnerable to the repetition and revitalising of these experiences (with all the old feelings and ruminations attached to them) in any sadistically abusive training setting that rationalises barbaric practices as par for the course in "making a good soldier".
Surely there is a line to be drawn between soldier training and gratuitous, sadistic abuse - which in my view extends to the practice of multiple tours of duty. As a trauma psychologist (retired) I have treated many vets and have consistently identified positive correlations between preexisting psychological factors and chronic - even occasionally psychotic - levels of post-traumatic stress that can totally unhinge an individual, most especially one prematurely returned to duty. There are endless stories depicting variations on these themes, for example this sorry tale, selected more or less at random: Prosecutors: Army Lt. Col. Robert Underwood tried to hire hitman to kill wife, superior officer of 13 March.
Another astute observation made by tigerquoll concerns the nature of the recruitment process, of which one of the battery of tests apparently explores a recruit's capacity to kill. No doubt this is linked to "in service to king and country" or "to protect home and family" (I am not privy to recruitment procedures), but irrespective of questionnaire details the question is still begged as to why the recruitment process (with its battery of psychological tests) should not be similarly capable of weeding out socially marginalised or psychotically disturbed individuals who may be opportunistically (albeit unconsciously) seeking affiliation or retribution via a career in the military. More crucially, perhaps, we should be asking whether there exists a tacit agenda in the defence forces to embrace the disturbed and the deviant (e.g. because they are likely to make efficient killing machines), given that war and career soldiering are no longer fashionable in affluent contemporary western cultures.
The principle of "overdetermination" is clearly at play here, where no single factor is capable of precipitating psychopathic behaviour, which requires a series of determining factors or variables to reach critical mass. Nonetheless, given that it is the poor and marginalised who, at least in the US, seem most vulnerable to the jingoistic anthems of recruitment drives, with economic downturns traditionally seeing a boost in numbers (Defence force recruitment on the ropes of 11 May 2009 by Greg Callaghan), it stands to reason that (at the risk of depopulating the forces!) at least some mitigation of a broad range of potentially deviant (if not homicidal) behaviours among defence personnel may be achieved by incorporating more sensitive psychological testing into recruitment procedures in the first instance.
Robert Bales' "murderous rampage" has set back ten years of international diplomacy, soured already poor relations between the US and Afghanistan, and has increased instability in the region - responsibility for which can be placed squarely upon the American military establishment for returning a psychotically traumatised Bales to his fourth tour of duty.
The defence department should start listening before history repeats itself here in Australia.
Thank you, tigerquoll - this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Human idiocy and sacrifice
Results of Melbourne Age's Grand Prix poll
I missed my chance to vote in the Age poll although the vote which should have ended the Grand prix was the Victorian state elections of 27 November 2010.
Victorian Premier Ted Baillieu promised in 2010 to cease the $50 million per year state government subsidy of the Grand Prix as shown in the media release of Greens state MLC Sue Pennecuik, below.
Premier Ted Baillieu has broken that promise.
The Age's poll closed on 19 March (yesterday). The time the poll was closed was not given. It would be helpful if any readers, who were able to vote, could tell us roughly what time they recall voting if they can remember, so that other readers may be more likely to record their vote in time in future polls.
The question put was:
Would you be happy if yesterday's grand prix was the last to be held in Melbourne?
In that poll 40% voted 'yes' and 60% voted 'no'. That appears to be a result in favour of the continuation of the Grand Prix. However, more than likely those in favour of continuing with the Grand Prix would have been better organised than those opposed. If the media reporting of the Grand Prix were more balanced and Melburnians and as other Victorians were better informed, the results would have most likely been strongly against. Certainly it is amongst the residents of the are who have to endure the motor race.
State government still refuses to release documents re cost of 2010 Grand Prix.
Greens Media Release of 9 Feb 2012
Despite its stated commitment to openness and transparency, the state government has again refused to release documents pertaining to the cost to the taxpayer of the 2010 F1 Grand Prix in Albert Park, citing "damage to the state's financial and commercial interests," Greens MLC for the Southern Metropolitan region said today.
"It is difficult to believe this defence and in any case the documents relate to significant expenditure of taxpayers money which should be made public," Ms Pennicuik said. "The 2010 race has been run and the public are entitled to know how much it cost them."
"Minister for Tourism and Major Events, Louise Asher, MP also disclosed that there had been no economic study performed as the basis of the five year contract to 2015," she said.
Ms Pennicuik had successfully moved requests in the Legislative Council for the production of a range of documents including the financial arrangements and contract between the state government and the AGPC regarding the staging of the 2010 event and the fee paid to Parks Victoria for use for Albert Park Reserve - which has never been disclosed. However the government only supplied some documents not including those which would show the cost to the taxpayer.
"The state government is not living up to its pre-election promises to come clean re the Grand Prix," said Ms Pennicuik. "We are heading towards yet another event where taxpayers will again be forced to fork out money to a multi-million dollar corporate monopoly."
"The government should live up to its promise not to continue to prop up this event and get out of the contract," Ms Pennicuik concluded.
For further comment: Sue Pennicuik 0409 055 875
See also: Documents motion: Australian Grand Prix Corporation of 14 Mar 2012
Vote for or against Grand Prix Melbourne
Elephants being poached to extinction
or Little Lemon ...
Melbourne Grand Prix is insane
AWPC not rescue organisation but has many such connections
Laika the sputnik dog
Wildlife Carers & Campbell Newman
Loggers get free range of possums' habitats to harvest timber
Global free trade benefits multinationals and 3rd World
Global free trade is a 'no barriers' universal utopianism.
It only benefits multinationals and 3rd World labor countries.
Look at the demise of 1st world manufacturing!
Look at the exponential growth in 3rd world emigration and 1st world immigration!
Look at job creation being steadily outsourced from the 1st World the the 3rd world with commissions earned by KPMG/PWC/Deloittes outsourcing consulting...
KPMG Outsourcing
PWC Outsourcing
Deloittes Outsourcing
Look at the hedonistic profits of multinationals and the pay packets of their chiefs!
It is what the hybrid lefty misnomer party called The Greens include in their policies.
The Greens ought to be renamed to what they stand for the 'Trotsky Humanists Party'.
Brave New World?
Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria
Australia
Australia has direct democracy every 1460 days
Where's our democracy at work?
Refugees are a smoke-screen for the real source of our growth
There are four lanes out of Sydney Airport
Auditor General: Melb Markets handling damaged gov reputation
Sydney 6 to 1 against population growth
US Pentagon is a global bully - try the killer in Afghanistan!

Proposal for action
Poet had the measure of our continent
Australian floods are not new - read Dorothea McKellar
Australian floods are not new.
The flood records are there with government, yet governments continue to allow homes to be built on flood prone land.
Australian Government flood risk strategy is two fold:
A. Hope it wont happen again
B. Pay the damage cost afterwards, rather than the preventative cost (e.g. levies) in advance.
The result in a known La Niña cycle is to be expected.
That is what we have now.
My Country
The love of field and coppice,
Of green and shaded lanes.
Of ordered woods and gardens
Is running in your veins,
Strong love of grey-blue distance
Brown streams and soft dim skies
I know but cannot share it,
My love is otherwise.
I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror -
The wide brown land for me!
A stark white ring-barked forest
All tragic to the moon,
The sapphire-misted mountains,
The hot gold hush of noon.
Green tangle of the brushes,
Where lithe lianas coil,
And orchids deck the tree-tops
And ferns the warm dark soil.
Core of my heart, my country!
Her pitiless blue sky,
When sick at heart, around us,
We see the cattle die -
But then the grey clouds gather,
And we can bless again
The drumming of an army,
The steady, soaking rain.
Core of my heart, my country!
Land of the Rainbow Gold,
For flood and fire and famine,
She pays us back threefold -
Over the thirsty paddocks,
Watch, after many days,
The filmy veil of greenness
That thickens as we gaze.
An opal-hearted country,
A wilful, lavish land -
All you who have not loved her,
You will not understand -
Though earth holds many splendours,
Wherever I may die,
I know to what brown country
My homing thoughts will fly.
~ Dorothea Mackellar, 1908
Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria
Australia
WA's endangered black cockatoo numbers may have fallen 35 %
Request for movement in solidarity along new lines....
Call for solidarity on A FRESH PARADIGM FOR ACTION
Nearly a year later
Suspend Fraser Island's listing until the tourists are banned
Dingoes have been here
Defence Enquiry won't change Army culture
Thanks Sheila,
The article is about the bullying Army culture for those interested. It is not intended to attract readers to Julian, so the title is deliberate.
I contacted the legal firm assigned to the current Defence Enquiry investigation but it is convoluted and designed to prosecute individuals, which is not appropriate.
The process won't change the Army culture.
The legal firm is DLA Piper Australia. When one contacts them all one gets is and automated email response...
"You have reached an email address for the Review of Allegations of Sexual and Other Abuse in Defence. This email account is monitored on a regular basis and your email will be read by a member of the Review team.
This is an automated response. You may not receive an individual response to your email.
Counselling is available
If you are distressed and need to speak with someone urgently, please contact the following support lines:
For currently serving ADF members:
The All-hours Support Line (ASL) is a confidential telephone service to assist ADF members and their families with accessing mental health services, such as psychology, medical, social work, and chaplain services.
The ASL number is 1800 628 036.
For Defence public service (APS) employees:
The Employee Assistance Program (EAP) is a confidential and free service. It is provided by professional counsellors who will provide practical assistance to APS employees, and their immediate family members, who may require counselling services.
Appointments can be made via the EAP hotline on 1300 366 789.
For former ADF members and former Defence public service employees and their immediate families:
Special arrangements have been made to extend the EAP service for immediate, initial counselling to former ADF members and former Defence public service employees and their immediate families who raise or have raised allegations affecting them with the external review team and who require counselling assistance. The EAP is a confidential and free service provided by professional counsellors.
This service can be accessed via the EAP hotline on 1800 451 138 and selecting Option 1 - Crisis Intervention.
Delivery of the Report prepared by the Review
The Minister for Defence and Secretary of the Department of Defence received Volume 1 of the Report (covering general findings and recommendations) and the first part of Volume 2 of the Report (covering individual allegations) on 11 October. The final Volume 2 will be provided to the Minister and Secretary in March 2012.
Raising new matters with the Review
The Review cannot take action to investigate, assess or make recommendations to the Minister or Secretary in relation to any new matters. If you wish to raise a new matter, you can do so and we will acknowledge receipt of your matter. However, we will not be able to take any action in respect of your matter unless and until the Minister and Secretary decide we may do so after they have considered our Report.
If you have a new matter to raise, we suggest you consider raising the matter directly with an entity which can take action or help you now. The appropriate entity might be one or more of Defence, the Defence Force Ombudsman, the Inspector General Australian Defence Force, the Department of Veterans' Affairs, the Australian Public Service Commission, Comcare, the police, a counselling service or another entity.
Status of matters already raised with the Review
In Volume 2, we are making an initial assessment of each allegation within scope that has been raised with us, making a recommendation as to whether further action should be taken and advising on the appropriate mechanism for such further action as may be warranted.
We have been dealing with over a thousand separate matters. They all require very careful consideration and it is taking us some time to work through them all.
We are not commenting about the matters that we are reviewing or have reviewed. We are not discussing with individuals whether their matter has been reviewed, nor what recommendation has been or will be made.
It is for the Minister to decide, after he has received the full Report, whether he will release the assessment and recommendation in respect of each matter to the person who raised the matter with the Review. We cannot release that information to you."
...blah blah blah.
So what is the point? The Defence Enquiry like most government enquiries, is a token investigation designed by the Australian Government to sunset clause its accountability.
The most significant revelations will be kept 'Classified' at ASIO headquarters in perpetuity. The true accounts will be kept from the public, so what will change?
Well, hopefully this account may help future soldiers get a better deal.
I take my hat off to anyone prepared to serve their country.
Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia
"Protected" Dugongs cruelly slaughtered - Traditional Ownership!
Reprinted from the ABC news
(words in brackets are mine)
Protected dugongs and sea turtles are being cruelly slaughtered in Queensland's Torres Strait to supply an illegal meat trade, an investigation by ABC's 7.30 has found.
The program has aired confronting footage that shows the brutal methods used to hunt the animals, with turtles being butchered alive and dugongs drowned as they are dragged behind boats.
The investigation throws into sharp relief the conflict between Indigenous Australians and animal rights activists over traditional hunting methods and exposes a black market in animal meat.
Activist Rupert Imhoff spent a fortnight in the Torres Strait, filming the hunting of the turtles and dugongs, both listed as vulnerable to extinction.
He used a secret camera to film scenes of animal cruelty, including the slow death of a sea turtle.
"It didn't actually die until they took off the bottom shell, actually peeled off the shell," he said.
"And then it just let out one last gasp of air and passed away."
Both dugongs and turtles are protected by federal law, but the Native Title Act gives an exemption to traditional owners, who can hunt to satisfy their personal, domestic or non-commercial communal needs.
The traditional hunting methods are seen by animal activists as deeply cruel but Queensland exempts native title hunting from its animal cruelty laws.
(human laws can't over-ride animal rights, or their indigenous rights)
'Too sensitive'
("Too sensitive" is simply political-correctness at the costs of the welfare of sentient animals. It's a cop-out)
Lawyer and advocate Rebecca Smith says conservation groups avoid criticising Indigenous hunting.
"It's just too hard, too prickly, too sensitive," she said.
"It's often deemed people who are opposed to traditional hunting are often called racist, but there is nothing racist about saying this is cruel."
National Indigenous radio broadcaster Seith Fourmile is a passionate advocate of the Indigenous right to hunt. He has nothing to do with the scenes of animal cruelty exposed by 7.30.
(Any "rights" must also be seasoned with responsiblities and consideration for other living creatures)
"We're working with the RSPCA to actually look at that cruelty to animals," he said.
It's just too hard, too prickly, too sensitive ... people who are opposed to traditional hunting are often called racist, but there is nothing racist about saying this is cruel.
(more like reverse racism - these traditional owners have the "right" to atrocities against defenceless and so-callled protected native animals, but they are protected from normal, average Australians?)
Rebecca Smith
"But it has got to be a cooperative approach."
The slaughter in Australia's north goes well beyond the bounds of traditional hunting.
(There are indigenous peoples who are protective of our wildlife and concerned by their slaughter and declining numbers. Indigenous peoples should be the custodians of our environment and wildlife, not their enemies)
Former abattoir worker Colin Riddell has spent years collecting evidence of dugong and turtle killing. His investigations reveal the killing goes much further south in Queensland's coastal waters.
James Epong is a Mandubarra man who lives on his traditional lands an hour south of Cairns.
The Mandubarra have declared a moratorium on the taking of turtle and dugong, but around them an illegal meat trade flourishes.
"Nine times out of 10, the illegal trade is to sell the meat for the benefit, for grog money or drugs," he said.
(There's nothing "traditional" about grog and drugs or the black market)
"One person that we know of in Yarrabah made $80,000 in one year."
Mr Fourmile says there are also non-Indigenous people involved in the illegal trade.
"They are involved with the trading, with selling it, passing it down - some of the turtle meat has gone as far south as Sydney and Melbourne," he said.
In the Torres Strait, Horn Island appears to be a transport hub for the illegal trade. On four separate occasions, 7.30 has confirmed multiple eskies arriving on the afternoon flight from Horn Island to Cairns.
'There's no jobs'
All the Indigenous people interviewed by 7.30 recognised the illegal trade and are committed to ending it.
"There's no jobs on Aboriginal community, let's not lie about it," Mr Fourmile said.
("Green" jobs should be created as park rangers and protectors of native animals and their habitats)
"There's no doubt this is happening. I'm not going to lie about the fact that there is some people out there doing it."
Cape York saltwater people like Frankie Deemal are working to end the esky trade.
There's no jobs on Aboriginal community, let's not lie about it. There's no doubt this is happening. I'm not going to lie about the fact that there is some people out there doing it.
Seith Fourmile
"We don't have no legislative framework in place in which we can police the kind of rogue killing, the kind of outsiders coming into our place," he said.
"We don't have the kind of legislative assistance to do that."
And the Mandubarra people are helping to protect the turtle that has helped sustain them.
"I went out to get one where I normally go and there was just nothing there," said James Epong.
"I came home empty-handed and I thought, 'I can't have this'. I want my kids to experience what I'd experienced. So from that day we just said no more hunting."
For the Mandubarra people, the turtle hunting ended in 1993.
Queensland's Department of Environment and Resource Management was contacted by 7.30.
In a statement, the department said it "takes the claims very seriously and will investigate all reports of illegal hunting and poaching".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This has been going on for some time. The department's assurances are rather hollow!
Duntroon culture and Hoddle St murderer
God, Tigerquoll,
This article packs no mean punch, but the title gives little clue to what's in it.
Well done. Good on you for speaking up.
My curse on that island nation is working
Japan's bogus "whale research" is over for this year
Being sentient is restricted only to a few.
here here!
All suppliers of arms to sides in civil war are complicit
Why Geoffrey's direct criticism of my comment was moved by the administrator of this site separate to my comment seems unjust. Readers only see one side of the argument. I am not concerned about the truth in such conflict at this stage. How does anyone know the truth about what is going on in a civil war?
For the benefit of Geoffrey seeking atonement, here is what I wrote (March 5th, 2012 Tigerquoll). I let the readers judge...
..'All suppliers of arms to sides in civil war are criminally complicit, as I said above.."any other countries that have supplied arms to Syria in the recent past are to be ruled similarly" - Russia, China, the US included. "This must go for all sides in the civil war."
I am not concerned about the truth in such conflict at this stage - both sides inevitably lie. How do any of us know what the truth is while the war rages? Propaganda and restricted/selective media taint the stories coming out. So to believe one side or the other is to pre-judge based upon unreliable information.
Subsequent investigation as in Libya will reveal what the truth was, but during a civil war all reported truth must be treated with a grain of salt - unless independently verified by a reliable objective source - is there one in Syria at this stage?
What I am more concerned about now is stopping the slaughter.
For Geoffrey (above comment) to suggest "both China and Russia deserve praise" as arms suppliers is immoral.
What was/is the solution to minimise the slaughter in Libya/Syria?
I am not advocating invasion of any nation. I do not support any war.
As I said, "UN Peace Keeping needs to be War Stopping, else we will see more Rwanda's, Sarajevos, Somalias, Sri Lanka's...
'How' is the problem solving challenge, but Ban Ki-Moon hasn't even got to thinking that way."
Wrestling between respecting national sovereignty and preventing internal civil war slaughter is a challenge not yet worked out by the UN. This is a priority for it.
A first step surely is early recognition of impending civil war and stopping the arms trading.
Geoff and Sheila, I suggest more effort carefully reading would be more constructive than expended in ad hominem criticism of the messenger.'
Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia
Editorial comment: I apologise for any confusion or upset that my actions may have caused authors with regard to my moving parts of this discussion. The above comment, from the third paragraph onwards, had been previously posted in the comments section beneath the article The Chainsaw Report on world illegal logging, Australian forests, plus volunteering in Foreign Aid organisations of 3 March. I judged that a more appropriate place to continue the discussion was here in the comments section beneath the Admin article containing Sheila Newman's excellent comments Syria -70% vote to end one-party state - why aren't we celebrating?. I also hoped that this would draw the attention of more readers to this article and the linked broadcast which reveal facts about that conflict which have been concealed from the public by the mainstream nesmedia (and much of the 'left'/'alternative') newsmedia.
Why Geoffrey Taylor's post having been moved here has been objected to is unclear to me. Tigerquoll's original comment was left where it was posted and was linked to by Geoffrey Taylor's above comment. So any reader should have been able to follow the link back to Tigerquoll's original comment, read it and form his/her own judgement. However, Tigerquoll apparently thought it necessary for the post, that Geoffrey Taylor's above comment was a response to, also be posted here to enable readers to be able to fairly evaluate the different viewpoints, and no-one has stopped stop him.
Should it also be thought necessary to have Geoffrey Taylor's above post also included on the page on which the post it is in response to is posted to, no one will prevent that. However, if this practise were to be adopted more generally, I think candobetter would become more bloated than it need be. Other candobetter readers and contributors are more than welcome to add their own views on how to best facilitate fair discussion on candobetter (as well as on the Syrian conflict under discussion between Geoffrey Taylor and Tigerquoll).- Ed.
How can war against Syria be stopped?
The following is in response to a comment All suppliers of arms to sides in civil war are complicit posted elsewhere by Tigerquoll. - Ed
(Tigerquoll has since reflected upon his statement that he is "not concerned about the truth in such a conflict" and has agreed with me that of course we should be concerned about the truth.)
Tigerquoll wrote:
What I am concerned about is stopping the slaughter
So I would expect and hope. So how would you have ended the bloodshed in Libya at the time when the UN Security Council voted to support NATO's "no-fly" zone over Libya on 17 March 2011, as the US military now wants to do over Syria? At that point in time only hundreds of civilians at most had been killed by the Government and none that I know of murdered in cold blood. (Feel most welcome to provide any evidence to the contrary). After the "no-fly" zone was imposed, NATO began bombing Libyan armed forces and civilians in support of the NTC 'rebels'. At least 50,000 Libyans died by the NTC's own estimates in the civil war. Libya's infrastructure was devastated and its oil wealth stolen by foreign corporations. That hardly "stopp[ed] the slaughter", did it? How are similar measures against Syria going to stop the slaughter?
For Geoffrey to suggest "both China and Russia deserve praise" as arms suppliers is immoral.
In fact, I did not praise Russia and China for supplying arms to Syria, but if the Assad Government of Syria had not had weapons to defend itself, it long ago would have suffered the fate of the Libyan Government. Given the wars that the US its allies and proxies have inflicted on the region since 1991, why should countries like Russia or China be condemned for having supplied the Syrian, Iranian and Libyan and other governments with weapons to defend themselves?
What was/is the solution to minimise the slaughter in Libya/Syria?
You should read Sheila's article, above.
The solution is to respect the will of Syrians. 57% of Syria defied the insurgent terrorists' call to boycott the recent constitutional referendum. Of those who voted, an overwhelming 89% voted "Yes" for the reforms that ended the Ba'ath Party's one party rule over Syria. Syrians opposed to Assad should use their vote at the forthcoming elections.
I am not advocating invasion of any nation. I do not support any war. ...
Then you should avoid making statements that essentially mirror the impression that the mainstream (and phony liberal/left) newsmedia is trying to give.
I think you should at least study more carefully the evidence such as is to be found on Global Research, that the Syrian Government, far from being the cause of the violence, is only acting to defend itself and its citizens against an insurrection now supported by foreign military forces on Syrian soil as the recent capture of 13 French Officers in Homs demonstrates.
Lindy
Sign the petition for the Great Barrier Reef
Succint quote
All suppliers of arms to sides in civil war are complicit
All suppliers of arms to sides in civil war are criminally complicit, as I said above.."any other countries that have supplied arms to Syria in the recent past are to be ruled similarly" - Russia, China, the US included. "This must go for all sides in the civil war."
I am not concerned about the truth in such conflict at this stage - both sides inevitably lie. How do any of us know what the truth is while the war rages? Propaganda and restricted/selective media taint the stories coming out. So to believe one side or the other is to pre-judge based upon unreliable information.
Subsequent investigation as in Libya will reveal what the truth was, but during a civil war all reported truth must be treated with a grain of salt - unless independently verified by a reliable objective source - is there one in Syria at this stage?
What I am more concerned about now is stopping the slaughter.
For Geoffrey (above comment) to suggest "both China and Russia deserve praise" as arms suppliers is immoral.
What was/is the solution to minimise the slaughter in Libya/Syria?
I am not advocating invasion of any nation. I do not support any war.
As I said, "UN Peace Keeping needs to be War Stopping, else we will see more Rwanda's, Sarajevos, Somalias, Sri Lanka's...
'How' is the problem solving challenge, but Ban Ki-Moon hasn't even got to thinking that way."
Wrestling between respecting national sovereignty and preventing internal civil war slaughter is a challenge not yet worked out by the UN. This is a priority for it.
A first step surely is early recognition of impending civil war and stopping the arms trading.
Geoff and Sheila, I suggest more effort carefully reading would be more constructive than expended in ad hominem criticism of the messenger.
Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia
Geoffrey Taylor's most recent response to Tigerquoll has been moved to the comments section below Sheila Newman's excellent article of 1 March, Syria -70% vote to end one-party state - why aren't we celebrating?. - Ed
Are we being lied to any less than in 1991, 2003, 2011, ... ?
Whilst it would be a mistake to look at China through rose-tinted glasses, both China and Russia deserve praise and not condemnation for having recently prevented yet another blood-drenched invasion by the US and its allies with the use of their veto on the UN Security Council. Had they done so last year the invasion of Libya could have also been stopped.
The above comment by Tigerquoll inadvertently repeats the lies in the mass media, that are intended to justify plans by the US and European and Middle Eastern allies to launch yet another destructive and bloody war.
Have you learnt nothing from history, Tigerquoll?
In 1990 Iraq was set up by the US amabassador to Iraq April Glaspie after neighbouring Kuwait began slant-drilling for oil under the border. After the invasion by Iraq, the US public relations firm Hill and Knowlton cooked up the incubator babies lie (2 min, 46 sec) to turn world public opinion against Iraq. The US then launched the invasion, supported by Australia. Iraq's infrastructure was devastated. Over ensuing years, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children died as a result of sanctions.
The pretexts used to justify the subsequent war against Iraq in 2003 was no less a fabrication, nor were the lies used to justify the invasion of Libya last year.
A similar pack of bare-faced lies were used only last year to justify the invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Before you make further contributions in regard to Syria, Tigerquoll, could I suggest you read Sheila Newman's article of 1 March and look at the 5 minute YouTube Broadcast to which it is linked?
For more in-depth news about, Syria, Iran, Libya, etc, visit globalresearch.ca, particularly, the story SYRIA: Arab League Head of Mission Refutes Western Media Propaganda of 28 Dec 2011.
Who is stirring the Syrian pot?
Yes, Tigerquoll, but who's stirring the pot? And aren't the other side selling weapons too?
Video: "US selling arms to Syrian rebels?"
Is anyone not selling arms to the Middle East?
China is an accessory to mass murder in Syria
Wen Jiabao paper tiger
Doncaster rail study - community workshops
China's policy on Syria - questions for Tigerquoll
"70 per cent of Syrians voted in referendum to end one party rule and to have elections but have been hit by EU sanctions anyway. Aljazeera reported that no-one would vote, but it seems that a lot did. Basically the world is dividing into an Eastern and Western bloc over this, with Russia and China supporting Syria's right to settle its own affairs and the US and other Anglophone western nations and the EU are looking for a pretext to intervene and threatening crippling sanctions. Further down we might expect EU imposition of a no-fly zone to give them an excuse to invade, as has already happened in Libya. Is the end-objective to isolate Iran for its oil reserves? What's up? Here are some views."
Fundraising dinner with Brett Smith
Chinese government culture is backward
China consuming timber sourced illegally
Forests cover 31 percent of Earth's total global land area, shelter 80 percent of land-based biodiversity and provide livelihoods for more than 1.6 billion people. In recent decades, Amazon deforestation has made Brazil the world's fifth biggest climate polluter.
Australia should join the widening effort to stamp out illegal logging, according to testimony given recently by tropical ecologist William Laurance with James Cook University. Laurance noted in his presentation that much of this timber makes its way to China, which Laurance calls a "black hole" for illegally harvested timber. The timber is then manufactured into consumer goods and often shipped abroad to countries such as Australia.
Prof Laurance said China had developed ''an immense export'' market for wood and paper products, driving large-scale clearing of tropical forests in Sumatra and Borneo.
The richness of its wildlife is a huge tourist pull, but corruption, overpopulation and logging is decimating Madagascar. Nowhere else on earth has so many unique animals and plants, and nowhere else is environmental destruction so rampant and unchecked. The most valuable tree is rosewood, upon which the aye-aye and other lemurs depend, but it is being sent to China to make antique reproduction furniture for the wealthy.
China is now the “wood workshop for the world,” according to Forest Trends, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank, consuming more than 400 million cubic meters of timber annually to feed both its burgeoning exports and growing domestic demands. Production of paper products has also grown dramatically in China, doubling from 2002 to 2007. As much as half of the timber and much of the paper pulp consumed by China is imported, primarily from tropical nations or nearby Siberia,
Laurance warned that timber lobbyists would try to play down the environmental and economic impact of illegal logging. Lobbyists such as Alan Oxley with World Growth International, "are being well-paid to defend some of the biggest forest-exploiting corporations operating anywhere." They use the term "illegal" very loosely, and the widespread use of Special Agricultural and Business Leases to circumvent forestry laws.
China's economic growth is at great expense to the planet and can't be sustained. Globalization means that China is able to expand and become a planetary predator.
With global population to increase by another 2.5 billion, the environmental threats we have now, due to the number of people needing the economic benefits of natural resources, will further be exacerbated. It's hard to see any of our forests, or the tropic species dependent on them, surviving into the next century. Our planet is under threat from exploding human numbers, consumption levels, and the inability to control the rapacious appetite for timber.
If I was Lindy I would be pissed off
Many gun owners in Australia
We are big users of firearms in Australia. There are many groups of people are are legally allowed to own guns. There are sporting shooters, ADF, Police, farmers, "game" hunters, security personal, and despite the controls, criminals are still able to access arms. Such is the violent nature of our society, crime, killing and intimidation are all part of our culture. The physical action of a shotgun involves a spray of pellets, and a flying bird can be wounded by even a single pellet. Other birds flying with the target bird can also be wounded. In Victoria, duck shooter numbers have drastically decreased from 95,000 in 1986 to about 19,400 . However, over the last few years, the numbers of duck shooters on the state's wetlands dropped to a very small number. Unfortunately, there are four states in Australia that still allow duck hunting, despite strong evidence of the extreme suffering involved. Every year, during the government-declared 'open season' many thousands of ducks are shot over the wetlands of Australia in the name of this ‘sport'. During the hunting season shooters in South Australia will be allowed to bag 12 ducks each day and, in the state's south-east, 25 quail. Tens of thousands of native animals and birds, including kangaroos, emus, wombats, kookaburras and cockatoos, have been legally slaughtered in Victoria in recent years. Landowners or managers who cannot resolve a wildlife issue by non-lethal means may apply for a permit to destroy or scare the animals. Inspectors don't even have to visit the property or provide non-lethal alternatives. On the other hand, conserving and protecting wildlife is very difficult and undervalued and underfunded. Victoria is largely in private hands and large swathes are already cleared and damaged. Roads, droughts, degraded habitats, and urban sprawl are taking their toll. The colonial-like mentality of land-holders with political-historical power, and the right to kill native animals, still exists in the Victorian government. It's hard to control crime and live in harmony, without the threat of violence, while so much killing is allowed - legally.
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