Comments

Subject was: agreed! - Ed.Immigration policy is a joke in Australia for the reasons you mention in your article and more.

I married a man who was not yet a permanent resident when he started beating me, my children, was arrested a few times for these reasons and for drug and alcohol related charges.

Subsequently, I withdrew sponsorship and left to protect my children. My cultural community who accepts the abuse of women and children rallied around him and he is still in Australia a year later.

He pays no child support, doesn't want to see the children, has violated restraining orders, pleaded guilty to 2 counts of abuse (against me and our children), has drug charges, is not even an Australian resident and is being protected by my ethnic community. The police lawyers everyone has rung immigration - no-one cares.

IS IMMIGRATION ABOVE THE AUSTRALIAN LAW?

Bob Carr discusses his attitude to a Big Australia and his continued role as SPA Patron on Lateline 22-03-2012 See http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3461709.htm?site=&source=rss Here's the guts of it: Australian Broadcasting Corporation Broadcast: 22/03/2012 Reporter: Tony Jones New Foreign Minister Bob Carr discusses relations with Indonesia, China's place in the world, his committment to addressing climate change, the risk of war between Israel and Iran, and his favourite American president. Transcript TONY JONES, PRESENTER: Tonight's guest is the Foreign Minister, Bob Carr. ... ... CARR: ... Yet we are the largest emitters of carbon pollution per head of population. And I can't talk as I did yesterday to ambassadors from poor countries, from Africa, from the Caribbean, from the South Pacific and urge them to take action on climate change unless I can point to Australia's record as a rich country taking serious action. With the passage of this legislation under the Gillard Government we've now got that and we've got iron-clad credibility when we talk about climate. TONY JONES: Let me ask you this: as Foreign Minister have you been forced to put aside your fundamental objections to the idea of a big Australia? BOB CARR: I will stay patron of sustainable population Australia. I believe in the cause of linking population growth to our key environmental indicators. TONY JONES: Won't that be in conflict with Government policy which is to increase immigration exponentially? BOB CARR: No, I remind you of what Prime Minister Gillard said when she took her office. She moved Australia away from what I see as an old-fashioned notion of simply force-feeding population growth. We've got a different economy from the one we had in the 1950s and 1960s when you had car plants in just about every Australian city, when we were - we needed more and more blue-collar workers. We haven't got that old kind of old-fashioned manufacturing economy today. We've got a smarter economy and we need a different approach to population growth and we've got to respect the environmental limits of this strange and fragile continent. We've got to respect its environmental limits and population policy has got to be tailored to that. Sent by Mark O'C

Jenny Warfe writes: "As we’ve known since Blue Wedges first looked at export/import data back in 2004, our biggest export is empty containers, and has been for many years. All of a sudden The Weekly Times has fallen upon the information, and made it front page news this week: http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2012/03/21/458861_latest-news.html And, no surprise really- Baillieu might be considering selling the PoM for a mere $2.4 billion, just a little over twice what we have just spent on digging deeper channels to “prepare for the PoM future”. And, that’s only one quarter of the $10 billion he intends to spend “developing” Hastings: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/baillieu-flags-state-asset-sales-20120322-1vmzf.html

Actually, Ms Proust is defending her banking turf from the reduction in traffic that would come if the government and the banks etc stopped interfering in population growth. She is in fact saying, "No population stabilisation in my backyard!"

It's as though Ms. Proust has unconsciously blurted out that she wants to eradicate the rights of people to protect their personal amenity and that of their neighbours (motivated by “NIMBY” attitude) and blithely suggests a reduction of democratic opportunities to achieve this. I don’t mean that she doesn't think it. I'm sure she's quite genuine! But it is almost unbelievable that someone would actually say it to her fellow citizens! When she wakes up, surely she will be embarrassed and humiliated that she said this and that it is on record? Or have we shot right past any semblance of democracy and reached a new low benchmark that The Age is now quite happy to go along with?

What kind of environmental vandalism can the community expect to be protected from legally if our State government's own agency, VicForests, is in breach of environmental laws? It makes mockery of any law and order. We have enough vandals and criminals, and we don't need any from Spring Street. VicForests has been on financial life-support for too long. Old growth forests need to be protected from so-called "sustainable logging". Native species are being driven to extinction and any legislation to protect them is being weakened, not enforced. It's shameful that not for profit community groups must use private funds against a government gone feral. Everything is up for sale now for monetary gain and jobs. The Barrister for VicForests recently claimed that prohibiting logging would deprive communities of "social and economic benefits". However, "social and economic benefits" should not be at the cost of stripping Victoria of its wealth of natural assets such as endangered species and old growth forests.

This country is and has always been run by the most gutless and spineles members of Australia that manipulate in every way possible to keep themselves and their slimey freinds in control,power and money.99% of councilers and politicians will crawl so far up each others arses to piss in each others pockets for their own adgendas it's not funny.as always these politicians and councilors are only there for their mates and their own adgenda's they are not there for the average australian person, in anyway or form.crikey's just look at mister midnight oil he had all the answers before he was a politician and now he's peter the carrot sprouting out of more arses than you can poke a stick at.

Jack Roach, President, Boroondara Residents’ Action Group (BRAG), writes, "I have news for Ms Proust, the number of councils and the residents who want to protect their neighbourhoods from unacceptable developments are not the problem. The problem is the rate of population growth, not the residents. The solution is to curb the population growth not build higher and bigger apartment blocks to house the new arrivals. Ms Proust who is currently Bank of Melbourne chair does not represent the residents of Melbourne, she is obviously speaking on behalf of her developer clients."

Bob Carr, back when he was NSW's premier, declared Sydney was FULL. While he has confirmed his support for small-"m" multiculturalism, it doesn't require a Big Australia or a burgeoning population. The pro-immigration Premier now wants to open the door to more skilled business migrants and international students to help revive the state's economy. He blames poor planning by governments - not immigration - for population pressures. It's assumed that "planning" can simply wipe away all the problems of overpopulation - ignore the costs on the environment, funding, lower lifestyles, increasing crime and the congestion of public and private transport. Is he right? Can Sydney cater for more immigrants? The Sydney Morning Herald invite entries of no more than 150 words. Please send to [email protected] by 10am on Friday and put "Is Sydney full?" in the email subject field. Please include your full name, email address and telephone number. It's assumed that economic growth, through a bigger GDP, will solve all the technological, human and environmental limitations of growth. The best will be published in the Extra section of the new Sun-Herald on Sunday. Readers are about to get a smarter choice on Sundays. The new Sun-Herald will engage more deeply with its Herald heartland - intelligent readers seeking more substance on Sundays. http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/the-loaded-dog-20120321-1vj1o.html

Consider the source of this propaganda. From what I've gathered this man (I use the term loosely) is a vile pocket minion of the tarsands. In no way is Ethical Oil independent. The Keystone XL corruption proved this. A book coming from someone who "interviewed" occupiers by asking about 20 people at the Occupy Movement if they had enough condoms is not worth the ink. Anyone who throws racial slurs (What racial slurs? - Ed) as a form of debate when met with First Nations death rate concerns during a public forum does not deserve the space you allotted to post his ideals. Yuck.

Fred Magdoff wrote: Ted, There is much in what you write that is admirable-- we do have to live a simpler life and that must specifically address the wealthy (I recently came across the 2008 World Development Indicators from the World bank in which their economists estimate that the wealthiest 10% of people (that would be about 700 million) consume 69% of the worlds private consumption while the bottom 40%--3.5 billion people-- use about 4.8% of the private consumption. Any discussion that ignores this reality gets nowhere fast.) The transition communities are important--because they demonstrate that people can live productive and interesting lives with lots of free time to pursue recreation/intellectual/artistic/social interests, without using a lot of resources. I would like to explain a bit more about what you see as the left (or Marxist) position on all this. I think that it is true that much of the left, including some Marxists, are Johnny come latelys to the environmental crisis. This point is made clear in Naomi Klein's blurb for What Every Environmentalist Needs to Know About Capitalism: “I’m not sure who needs to read this relentlessly persuasive book more: environmentalists who imagine we can solve the ecological crisis without confronting capitalism, or leftists who have yet to recognize the ecological crisis as the highest expression of the capitalist threat. How about both, and then some. Indispensable.” However, there is an important progressive and insightful Marxist tradition on environmental issues going back to the works of Marx and Engels that is actually quite advanced. Some of the quotes that we used in the book "What Every Environmentalist...." from Engels are truly amazing. They could (and should) be made environmentalists nowadays. Perhaps the person that has helped to develop that theme is John Bellamy Foster (I refer you to some of his books) plus there have been many articles in Monthly Review). It is certainly true that there were (and perhaps still are) people who consider themselves Marxists and look at things as you describe--everyone has their Mercedes. I have not come across them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. However, there is a truly vibrant Marxist/left that completely understands that we all must live a very modest standard of living. with best regards, FRED

Is Oakeshott so naive or really pandering to industrial logging vested interests in his NSW electorate of Lynne (Port Macquarie) struggling to perpetuate their excuse to log? Forests NSW (a State logger like government bullies VicForests and Forestry Tasmania), Australian Solar Timbers (family sawmillers in Kempsey) and Port Macquarie-Hastings Council (bankrupted, sacked in 2008 and still under administration for capital works excesses). Smells this, even before you burn it. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria Australia

This is a thoughtful, sad indictment of an outmoded military training culture with tragic consequences for all involved.

Tigerquoll has identified various factors needing to be examined in establishing a causal explanation for Julian Knight's behaviour at least, and - by extension - the behaviour of all other rogue soldiers (Linda English, Nidal Malik Hasan, and Robert Bales being three in the US that instantly come to mind) spawned or aggravated by a military training culture badly in need of overhaul.

Tigerquoll seems to be accurately identifying (from his own experience) the potentiating of psychotic acting-out by the effects of institutionalised sadistic abuse. I would add that an individual who takes into military service the emotional damage resulting from a pre-existing emotional history of physical/sexual abuse (e.g. perpetrated within family, extended family or school settings) is inevitably vulnerable to the repetition and revitalising of these experiences (with all the old feelings and ruminations attached to them) in any sadistically abusive training setting that rationalises barbaric practices as par for the course in "making a good soldier".

Surely there is a line to be drawn between soldier training and gratuitous, sadistic abuse - which in my view extends to the practice of multiple tours of duty. As a trauma psychologist (retired) I have treated many vets and have consistently identified positive correlations between preexisting psychological factors and chronic - even occasionally psychotic - levels of post-traumatic stress that can totally unhinge an individual, most especially one prematurely returned to duty. There are endless stories depicting variations on these themes, for example this sorry tale, selected more or less at random: Prosecutors: Army Lt. Col. Robert Underwood tried to hire hitman to kill wife, superior officer of 13 March.

Another astute observation made by tigerquoll concerns the nature of the recruitment process, of which one of the battery of tests apparently explores a recruit's capacity to kill. No doubt this is linked to "in service to king and country" or "to protect home and family" (I am not privy to recruitment procedures), but irrespective of questionnaire details the question is still begged as to why the recruitment process (with its battery of psychological tests) should not be similarly capable of weeding out socially marginalised or psychotically disturbed individuals who may be opportunistically (albeit unconsciously) seeking affiliation or retribution via a career in the military. More crucially, perhaps, we should be asking whether there exists a tacit agenda in the defence forces to embrace the disturbed and the deviant (e.g. because they are likely to make efficient killing machines), given that war and career soldiering are no longer fashionable in affluent contemporary western cultures.

The principle of "overdetermination" is clearly at play here, where no single factor is capable of precipitating psychopathic behaviour, which requires a series of determining factors or variables to reach critical mass. Nonetheless, given that it is the poor and marginalised who, at least in the US, seem most vulnerable to the jingoistic anthems of recruitment drives, with economic downturns traditionally seeing a boost in numbers (Defence force recruitment on the ropes of 11 May 2009 by Greg Callaghan), it stands to reason that (at the risk of depopulating the forces!) at least some mitigation of a broad range of potentially deviant (if not homicidal) behaviours among defence personnel may be achieved by incorporating more sensitive psychological testing into recruitment procedures in the first instance.

Robert Bales' "murderous rampage" has set back ten years of international diplomacy, soured already poor relations between the US and Afghanistan, and has increased instability in the region - responsibility for which can be placed squarely upon the American military establishment for returning a psychotically traumatised Bales to his fourth tour of duty.

The defence department should start listening before history repeats itself here in Australia.

Thank you, tigerquoll - this is just the tip of the iceberg.

The moa, a 400-pound flightless bird that thrived in New Zealand until about the year 1250, totally disappeared within 60 to 120 years of the first human arrival. Using fire as a weapon and tool, settlers also burned into extinction an entire forest that was to become grassland. The Mayans leveled forests to fuel the hot fires required for transforming limestone into lime. There is evidence of rotting crops, slaves burning down entire forests to make lime dust, young children starving to death, and poor people who have been starved to the point of insanity. In response to all this, the priests are demanding more Human Sacrifices. Burning our forests would be complete lunacy and nothing but destructive. The wholesale burning of forests for "renewable energy" is absurd and misconstrued with ecological "green" terminology. There is no consideration of biodiversity, habitats of native species, species already struggling against logging and human-induced threats. It's an anthropocentric model of human arrogance, with everything is a resource to consume in the endless desire for economic growth. Sacrificing native vegetation for "renewable" energy is the modern misguided equivalent of human sacrifice to the Mayan gods seeking revenge on wayward subservients.

I missed my chance to vote in the Age poll although the vote which should have ended the Grand prix was the Victorian state elections of 27 November 2010.

Victorian Premier Ted Baillieu promised in 2010 to cease the $50 million per year state government subsidy of the Grand Prix as shown in the media release of Greens state MLC Sue Pennecuik, below.

Premier Ted Baillieu has broken that promise.

The Age's poll closed on 19 March (yesterday). The time the poll was closed was not given. It would be helpful if any readers, who were able to vote, could tell us roughly what time they recall voting if they can remember, so that other readers may be more likely to record their vote in time in future polls.

The question put was:

Would you be happy if yesterday's grand prix was the last to be held in Melbourne?

In that poll 40% voted 'yes' and 60% voted 'no'. That appears to be a result in favour of the continuation of the Grand Prix. However, more than likely those in favour of continuing with the Grand Prix would have been better organised than those opposed. If the media reporting of the Grand Prix were more balanced and Melburnians and as other Victorians were better informed, the results would have most likely been strongly against. Certainly it is amongst the residents of the are who have to endure the motor race.

State government still refuses to release documents re cost of 2010 Grand Prix.

Greens Media Release of 9 Feb 2012

Despite its stated commitment to openness and transparency, the state government has again refused to release documents pertaining to the cost to the taxpayer of the 2010 F1 Grand Prix in Albert Park, citing "damage to the state's financial and commercial interests," Greens MLC for the Southern Metropolitan region said today.

"It is difficult to believe this defence and in any case the documents relate to significant expenditure of taxpayers money which should be made public," Ms Pennicuik said. "The 2010 race has been run and the public are entitled to know how much it cost them."

"Minister for Tourism and Major Events, Louise Asher, MP also disclosed that there had been no economic study performed as the basis of the five year contract to 2015," she said.

Ms Pennicuik had successfully moved requests in the Legislative Council for the production of a range of documents including the financial arrangements and contract between the state government and the AGPC regarding the staging of the 2010 event and the fee paid to Parks Victoria for use for Albert Park Reserve - which has never been disclosed. However the government only supplied some documents not including those which would show the cost to the taxpayer.

"The state government is not living up to its pre-election promises to come clean re the Grand Prix," said Ms Pennicuik. "We are heading towards yet another event where taxpayers will again be forced to fork out money to a multi-million dollar corporate monopoly."

"The government should live up to its promise not to continue to prop up this event and get out of the contract," Ms Pennicuik concluded.

For further comment: Sue Pennicuik 0409 055 875

See also: Documents motion: Australian Grand Prix Corporation of 14 Mar 2012

Vote here Votes so far (presumably due to people with vested interest getting this publicity going) are currently greatly in favor of the Grand Prix. If you don't like the Grand Prix, cast your vote against it in this Age poll.

ELEPHANTS are in danger of being hunted to extinction across Africa, with poaching reaching "unprecedented levels" to supply demand from Asia for the animal's ivory tusks, experts have warned. Elephants being hunted to extinction across Africa In just 10 weeks, poaching gangs killed a significant number of savannah elephants in a reserve in northern Cameroon and were close to exterminating those in the country's Bouba N'Djida National Park. According to WWF Vice President Richard Carroll, one of the problems facing conservationists was the sophisticated weaponry used by poachers. 200 elephants in four weeks in an ongoing killing spree in a Cameroonian national park is a heart-wrenching tragedy, and the blood-bath and pain must be condemned world-wide. The ivory tusk trade must be halted, and all trading in body parts of wild animals must cease. The suffering of young orphan elephants, dying without food, nurture or water, is gut-wrenching. Consuming elephant meat is not common in Thailand, but some Asian cultures believe consuming animals' reproductive organs can boost sexual prowess. Thailand's national symbol is the elephant. Elephant meat was ordered by restaurants in Phuket, a popular travel destination in the country's south. Elephants are sensitive and very intelligent animals. They have strong social bonds, and the young have a long period of dependency. The waring ravages cause by human violence and greed appear to be boundless, and without mercy. Such is the power of "filthy lucre" - greed for profits from suffering and slaughter. Bouba Ndjida National Park and others in Africa must be assisted in protecting wildlife from criminals. Human population growth is denying elephants their habitats, and bringing new conflicts for their survival. There are few places on our planet left unscathed by human encroachment, violence and onslaught. Animals such as magnificent elephants, and their body parts, are then viewed as another illegal economic resource. Most of the crucial middle-men roles in Africa are held by Chinese individuals who are part of the burgeoning immigrant communities here in Africa. What's left of reserves and national parks must be preserved for the Earth's precious diversity.

I remember vividly when the Russians launched this little dog into space, never to return. I was in primary school and the name we knew him by was "Little Lemon". We ( all the kids in my class and I) were really upset about it and talked about it a lot. I feel exactly the same to this day as I did then about this act of cruelty. It's the "grown up" version of pulling frogs legs off to see what happens. I hate to think how the poor dog would have suffered and how scared he would have been. What sort of minds could concoct such a cruel act?

I can hear the constant screaming of those pathetic Grand Prix cars. It is not bad enough to want to escape Malvern for the weekend but it must be hell for residents of Albert Park. I went into the city yesterday and it was really loud in the tram going down St. Kilda Rd. It is such an insane form of entertainment.

Sorry, I have removed the AWPC from the Wildlife Rescuers list. But they are incredibly helpful and in touch with many wildlife carers, so deserve all our support. Thanks for the tip on Cambell Newman. It's really a choice between two clowns in Queensland, I'm afraid.

"The more time passes, the more I'm sorry.... We shouldn't have done it.... We did not learn enough from the mission to justify the death of the dog." These are the words of one of the former lead scientists who had worked on the Soviet "animals-in-space" program, about the fate of Laika, a small stray dog who was the first living creature launched into space. Laika was about 3 years old, and left this earth for a fate beyond even the harshest fates reserved for her kind on earth, strapped into a tiny cabin and sent into space alone, trapped in a harness within a sputnik. It is speculated that, instead of dying of starvation, or being poisoned by one of the pellets in her ten-day supply of food and water, she may only have lived for hours. Today I found a website in memorium for her. Laika We humans are like ferocious monsters dressed up in clothes pretending that we are better than the other animals.

Australian Wildlife Protection Council - is NOT a rescue group. Please check to see if BARN is still answering their phone 24 hours. Have been told that they stopped operating after last years floods. Campbell Newman has NO respect for wildlife. He has made a shallow promise to help the Sea Turtles and Dugongs. He has also made a promise to let anyone cruelly MURDER Flying Foxes. No one is making promises to stop the cruel MURDERING of Macropods. He also has NOT made any promises for Qld's koalas. BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Loggers get free range of possums' habitats to harvest timber in Victoria's central highlands. Nether the conservationists or VicForests ultimately won - VicForests definition of habitat was not fully upheld and nor was MyEnvironment's. Justice Osborn found in favour of a conservative but improved definition that will halt logging in many areas otherwise destined for chips. The only winner in this case is the Leadbeater’s Possum, but not by enough to ensure its long-term survival. Unfortunately, protecting endangered species in forests is included in the same legislation as for the logging industry. It's a contradiction, but forest destruction has become part of our economy and a source of jobs, and State forests can't be excluded from logging. After a battle in the Supreme Court, Justice Robert Osborn refused to grant permanent orders that would restrain loggers from harvesting timber in three coupes, Gun Barrel, Freddo and South Col, northeast of Toolangi. VicForests "won" the court case against MyEnvironment, with their concerns about destroying the habitat of our last Leadbeaters Possums, those that miraculously survived Black Saturday's inferno. Legislation is flawed as it does not protect "coups" from being logged. While the economic benefits of logging may be clear and quantifiable, what about the costs of extinction? Extinction is forever, and trying to recoup endangered species is costly financially, environmentally and ethically as we lose more of our natural heritage. The little Leadbeaters Possums are Victoria's native species emblem. How do we explain to future generations that they were exterminated because we had to mulch their trees mainly for woodchips for overseas markets? Short term economic benefits rule, and any policies to protect the environment or endangered native species is largely tokenism. Where's the "balance"? Leadbeater's Possums have no economic power, no political voice and are simply trying to eek out an existence against all the forces against them - climate change, human contacts, fires, declining habitats and now they must be exterminated even further by VicForests - for logging profits in a so-called sustainable industry. Legislation such as the Flora and Fauna Guarantee Act actually do nothing and is impotent against VicForests.

Global free trade is a 'no barriers' universal utopianism.

It only benefits multinationals and 3rd World labor countries.

Look at the demise of 1st world manufacturing!
Look at the exponential growth in 3rd world emigration and 1st world immigration!
Look at job creation being steadily outsourced from the 1st World the the 3rd world with commissions earned by KPMG/PWC/Deloittes outsourcing consulting...

KPMG Outsourcing
PWC Outsourcing
Deloittes Outsourcing

Look at the hedonistic profits of multinationals and the pay packets of their chiefs!

It is what the hybrid lefty misnomer party called The Greens include in their policies.
The Greens ought to be renamed to what they stand for the 'Trotsky Humanists Party'.

Brave New World?

Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria
Australia

Australia has Direct Democracy every 1460 days (every 4 years). Between that blessed time, it defaults to aVested Interest Democracy, when the vested interests demand their return on election donations. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria Australia

Presuming we have a robust democracy in Australia, if 73% want population stability, and probably more if they understood that most of our growth does not come from asylum seekers, then this should be the case. Something as basic as population size, that impacts negatively on our lifestyles - housing, quality of life, open spaces, costs of living, stretching of limited natural and infrastructure resources, State funding, food security, jobs and tertiary education places - then surely this is what should happen! If farmers overload their paddocks beyond their "carrying capacity" then they run the risks of loss of herd quality, having to artificially feed and water, soil pollution and pasture destruction etc. It's assumed that for humans Nature will simply comply with economic demands and the bounty of Nature is endless. It's the mythical "horn of plenty"- the cornucopia ideal - that Nature's riches are infinite and the planet is never full! Instead, the issue of population growth - and the tens of thousands of people who arrive in Australia each year - is silenced and distorted by the media and by governments. It's treated as something inevitable, as if it was natural and cities just grow! Thanks to the Stable Population Party of Australia - and their refreshing evidence.

Interesting that the so many of the public confuse "immigration" to "asylum seekers". This is exactly as our Government wants us to think. 32% of respondents believed Australia's humanitarian (including refugees) intake to be the biggest contributor to growth. The asylum seekers are being used as a smoke-screen to cloud the issue of immigration. The large bulk of migrants are economic - students staying, family reunion, skilled etc. They therefore support "immigration" for compassionate and social justice reasons. There is never a debate on the real source of our population growth! If over half of our growth is from economic immigration, at least the same proportion (or more) of our "natural growth" is also from economic immigration - their babies that are born here! Sometimes the media will advertise "baby boom" in local hospitals, but it's still deceptive. It's alluding to what's causing our growth, rather than a deliberate policy chosen by our Government in deference to big businesses - in their favour. It's about sacrificing living standards and per capita GDP to aggregate a national GDP - not from production, exports, good economic management, but largely from more consumers - a high population growth.

Melbourne Markets Redevelopment The audit evaluated whether the redevelopment of the Melbourne Wholesale Fruit and Vegetable Market was effectively planned, procured and managed. It examined the initiation, planning and management of the redevelopment, the procurement planning and management, and the project delivery to the end of 2011. The audit found that poor project implementation and stakeholder management has resulted in significant delays, cost overruns, and has damaged the government’s reputation. A number of significant changes made during the project have adversely affected its success and probity matters in relation to the trading floor procurement cast doubt on the fairness of the procurement process. Link to audit summary and full report: http://www.audit.vic.gov.au/reports_and_publications/latest_reports/2011-12/20120314-melbourne-markets.aspxl Well, no-one wanted it, did they? It was undemocratic and now we find out, not to great surprise, that it looks like a dirty deal.

A Productivity Commission survey (PC, 2011a.) of nearly 16,000 people revealed that 64% of the Sydey community would not like an increased population, 9% would like it and 27% did not know or did not care; Performance Benchmarking of Australian Business Regulation:Planning, Zoning and Development Assessments, Productivity Commission Research Report Volume 1, p.28, April 2011; Source. Available from http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/108840/planning-volume1.pdf [accessed 6 March 2012] See SOSNSW blogspot under 12 March 2012 The same piece by Sydney's Save Our Suburbs group also gives the lie to assumptions that high density housing decreases costs or electricity use.

So, predictably, the United States Pentagon wants its poor mass murdering soldier out of vengeful Afghanistan back to the bossom of US soil. What a hollow political piece of Pentagon spin that "he could face death penalty if convicted in the US"...U.S. Pentagon's Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has said. It is a fabricated excuse to get the bastard out of the Afghanistan socio-political heat. The crime took place in Afghanistan and so that is rightly where he deserves to be tried and convicted. If a foreigner did the same in the US does anyone believe the US would let a foreign killer be tried outside the US? Pentagon Big Brother has one law for non-US citizens and another for its own. If it is anyone the US Pentagon doesn't like - they use their tentacles to get anyone in the world back to the US - Julian Assange?, Christopher Tappin?, R. Allen Stanford?... When it comes to US Defence, drones, CIA sinister ops, US military muscle...Obama is a Pentagon patsy. What is the bet Australia's SAS are complicit with US Pentagon dirty work in Zimbabwe, Nigeria and Kenya too - practicising counter-hostage 'covert ops'? Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria Australia
Tony Boys's picture

Ric, Thanks for your message. It's been a year since the disaster (as of yesterday) and so nearly a year since that video was made. Things have changed, a little, but have not really gotten any better apart from the fact that we are still here and still alive. Should I be reading something "below" that is a document describing a proposal for action? I am not sure whether I am seeing it or not(!). Personally, any action that does not involve my immediate death would be welcome. Although there is a certain amount of action in Japan, if you've ever seen a mosquito bounce off a B52 bomber in mid-flight you'll know how much of an effect the "action" here is having on the Japanese establishment. The nuclear circus continues to roll on here without a great deal of thought about what the population of the country wants, or even why it is here except to act as a labour force for those who have the power to make use of it. I have suggested that 5 million people armed with agricultural implements (as a kind of symbolism of something) turn up in front of the parliament in Tokyo to see if that might have some kind of effect on the folks within, but so far I'm not getting anywhere with it. (That's not for lack of anger, I can assure you, but more likely from the remaining presence of hope that the pre-2008 (?) society can still be revived. Guess we'll have to wait a while for the hope to dissipate.) Meanwhile, I look forward to knowing more about what you propose. As a final note, I got so pissed off with some people's ideas about how human/social happiness can be achieved that I wrote this thing here: The Realization of Human Happiness which appears to be S-O-O-O far off everyone's mental radar screens that I can't even get half a dozen responses for it. I would appreciate it very much indeed if you could take a look and let me know whether you think I am completely bananas or not. Thank you! Tony

Although Dorothea Mackellar lived into her eighties through which period she could have observed the many moods and phases of Australia's climate, she actually wrote this poem when she was only 19 years old. The poem is amazing for its beauty but even more so for the perception of the character of the Australian continent in all its harshness subtleties. Few people at that age can take all this in but as a friend reminded me this morning- the people at the turn of the last century were much more connected with the land than most of us are today.

Australian floods are not new.
The flood records are there with government, yet governments continue to allow homes to be built on flood prone land.

Australian Government flood risk strategy is two fold:

A. Hope it wont happen again
B. Pay the damage cost afterwards, rather than the preventative cost (e.g. levies) in advance.

The result in a known La Niña cycle is to be expected.
That is what we have now.

My Country

The love of field and coppice,
Of green and shaded lanes.
Of ordered woods and gardens
Is running in your veins,
Strong love of grey-blue distance
Brown streams and soft dim skies
I know but cannot share it,
My love is otherwise.

I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror -
The wide brown land for me!

A stark white ring-barked forest
All tragic to the moon,
The sapphire-misted mountains,
The hot gold hush of noon.
Green tangle of the brushes,
Where lithe lianas coil,
And orchids deck the tree-tops
And ferns the warm dark soil.

Core of my heart, my country!
Her pitiless blue sky,
When sick at heart, around us,
We see the cattle die -
But then the grey clouds gather,
And we can bless again
The drumming of an army,
The steady, soaking rain.

Core of my heart, my country!
Land of the Rainbow Gold,
For flood and fire and famine,
She pays us back threefold -
Over the thirsty paddocks,
Watch, after many days,
The filmy veil of greenness
That thickens as we gaze.

An opal-hearted country,
A wilful, lavish land -
All you who have not loved her,
You will not understand -
Though earth holds many splendours,
Wherever I may die,
I know to what brown country
My homing thoughts will fly.

~ Dorothea Mackellar, 1908

Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria
Australia

WESTERN AUSTRALIA'S iconic, endangered black cockatoos are being decimated by land clearing, logging and human population growth, according to government figures showing a 35 per cent fall in numbers in just one year. "To lose more than a third of an endangered species in just one year is a devastating result and shows that current conservation measures are failing," Conservation Council of WA spokesman John McCarten says. More than $9.3 million had been spent by the WA Government on protecting and rehabilitating black cockatoo habitats since 2008-09. That included more than $7.7 million from developers to buy and rehabilitate private bushland for environmental offsets linked to project approvals. "Offsets" are not the same as original habitats. WA's uncontrolled over-population will inevitably lead to even more environmental disasters unless it can be turned around. But with a pro-development/pro-destruction Premier who has remained silent about WA’s latest disastrous rate of population increase (which topped the nation) it’s easy for the average punter to remain pessimistic. Only 4222 Carnaby's black cockatoos were sighted across 185 locations from Geraldton to Esperance during the annual count, compared to 6672 sighted a year earlier. BirdLife Australia, which conducts the annual count each April, found a 34 per cent decline in the Perth greater area up to April 2011. dramatic decline of endangered WA cockatoo Australia already has the highest mammal extinction rate in the modern world. Our population growth is not sustainable, and our nation is descending in quality - not only for animals, birds but human quality living. What's made Australia unique, such as our rich wilidfe heritage, is being eliminated by the drive for economic growth and profits, and wrecking Australia. buzzword, an oxymoron.

The interest of Tony Boys in helping the public to self-educate is right up my alley. The proposal for action touched upon below would involve the Governor of California (U.S.A.) -- on his/her own media outlet (unedited) -- repeatedly, vigorously and creatively addressing the issues which are dear to Tony Boys' heart, which are of collective concern worldwide. Unilaterally, the Governor of California COULD -- as Head of the Regents of the University of California system -- terminate ALL NUCLEAR RESEARCH... in a number of different ways... legally and nonviolently. THAT would send out ripples worldwide, and inspire others to do the same, or to join hands in a new kind of solidarity. ON THAT NOTE I ASK ONE AND ALL TO READ WHAT'S BELOW HERE, SOME OF WHICH WILL BE REPETITIOUS, BUT WORTHWHILE, I BELIEVE. Thanks, Ric Below is something I sent to the powers-that-be of this site earlier today. I am looking forward to receiving a response from anyone, however, who is interested in discussing our proposal for action which follows a new paradigm. It is centered in California, but -- clearly -- its implementation/success would stand to send out positive ripples worldwide. In short, since the two mainstream parties are worthless for our collective purposes, and since ALL third parties are permanently marginalized... and since we want to embrace something that is essentially legal and nonviolent... we are turning to the electoral arena in California... to secure significant reins of power which are NOT dependent on career politicians. And so... we want to have 12 unaffiliated, nonpolitician citizens serving as Governor of California in lieu of having another self-serving careerist at the helm in 2014. As per the articles recommended below... a Guv of CA can UNILATERALLY transform life in the state and beyond overnight. Details upon request. Blessings in solidarity, Your Oxman in Clear Lake, California at the moment I appreciate your efforts and accomplishments. As per your Mission Statement... we are aligned sufficiently to move in solidarity together. I have a plan for action which carries the imprimaturs of the late Howard Zinn and many high profile figures worldwide. Please glance at my background at the archived www.oxtogrind.org ("About Us"), and then google "Documenting Ourselves to Death" and/or "Unilaterally, Virtually Overnight, Legally and Nonviolently...." together with www.oxtogrind.org. That should get us started; quick glances at other pieces posted on the site might help too; the 'Arundhati' article? Please confirm receipt of this and, if you will, tell me about yourself and your primary priorities at present IN TERMS OF ACTION. Blessings in solidarity, Your Oxman

Below is something I sent to the powers-that-be of this site earlier today. I am looking forward to receiving a response from anyone, however, who is interested in discussing our proposal for action which follows a new paradigm. It is centered in California, but -- clearly -- its implementation/success would stand to send out positive ripples worldwide. In short, since the two mainstream parties are worthless for our collective purposes, and since ALL third parties are permanently marginalized... and since we want to embrace something that is essentially legal and nonviolent... we are turning to the electoral arena in California... to secure significant reins of power which are NOT dependent on career politicians. And so... we want to have 12 unaffiliated, nonpolitician citizens serving as Governor of California in lieu of having another self-serving careerist at the helm in 2014. As per the articles recommended below... a Guv of CA can UNILATERALLY transform life in the state and beyond overnight. Details upon request. Blessings in solidarity, Your Oxman in Clear Lake, California at the moment. Email me at [email protected], if you will. I appreciate your efforts and accomplishments. As per your Mission Statement... we are aligned sufficiently to move in solidarity together. I have a plan for action which carries the imprimaturs of the late Howard Zinn and many high profile figures worldwide. Please glance at my background at the archived www.oxtogrind.org ("About Us"), and then google "Documenting Ourselves to Death" and/or "Unilaterally, Virtually Overnight, Legally and Nonviolently...." together with www.oxtogrind.org. That should get us started; quick glances at other pieces posted on the site might help too; the 'Arundhati' article? Please confirm receipt of this and, if you will, tell me about yourself and your primary priorities at present IN TERMS OF ACTION. Blessings in solidarity, Your Oxman

New South Wales and Victoria are again experiencing floods. People in country towns are getting around their properties in boats,are being evacuated from their homes, and are up madly sand bagging towns to protect them from inundation. Yesterday I heard a very interesting interview with Professor Brian Finlayson from the Dept. of Resource Management and Geography,University of Melbourne about the the flood situation in Australia. The following is the main thrust of the interview. Every year there is a 1% chance that these very high floods will occur. (hence they are called once in a hundred year floods but they are not confined to once every 100 years - as most people reading this would understand.) Recent flood events are not caused by climate change. CC is not here yet. When it comes it may make things more erratic. The presenter asked if La Nina now occurs more often. Reply- These are very big systems and we have only observed them for such a short time – it not possible to say there is any change in pattern. Presenter asked: What is so different about Australia to cause such floods? Reply: The continent is very flat with very wide flood plains. In Australia the big floods are 6+ times the normal floods. Other countries e.g. in Europe N America- China- they are about 2 x normal floods. We are flying blind dealing with this because we do not have records going far enough back. The proper information for planning new housing subdivisions does not get to the level of local councils and they give permission to build where they should not. Lack of knowledge of floods was shown in the construction of the Hume Weir last century where the spillways proved insufficient even during construction and extra spillways had to be made as they went along. The Victorian Water Minister’s support of a recent suggestion to remove vegetation from rivers to make water run away quicker is not practical. During a flood only about 8% of the water is actually in the river channel and removing vegetation and concreting the river bed may bring this up to 10%-12%. This is not of any use. We cannot engineer our way out of this problem. The presenter then thanked Prof. Finlayson, finishing with the quip that his statements would have him crossed off Infrastructure Australia's (hypothetical) Christmas card list!

Suspend Fraser Island's World Heritage listing until the tourists are completely prohibited. World Heritage Listing was all a cynical tourism rating anyway. Fraser Island needs to become a wildlife sanctuary protected from human exploitation and from baby baiting of dingos. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

dingoes have been here thousands of years, not to mention being an important part of our natural ecosystem, white man has only been here a couple of hundred years.. who has more right to be here? anyone with half a brain knows not to leave children unattended where there's wild animals...& yet people have the arrogance to forget we are not apex predators.

Thanks Sheila,

The article is about the bullying Army culture for those interested. It is not intended to attract readers to Julian, so the title is deliberate.
I contacted the legal firm assigned to the current Defence Enquiry investigation but it is convoluted and designed to prosecute individuals, which is not appropriate.
The process won't change the Army culture.

The legal firm is DLA Piper Australia. When one contacts them all one gets is and automated email response...

"You have reached an email address for the Review of Allegations of Sexual and Other Abuse in Defence. This email account is monitored on a regular basis and your email will be read by a member of the Review team.

This is an automated response. You may not receive an individual response to your email.

Counselling is available
If you are distressed and need to speak with someone urgently, please contact the following support lines:

For currently serving ADF members:
The All-hours Support Line (ASL) is a confidential telephone service to assist ADF members and their families with accessing mental health services, such as psychology, medical, social work, and chaplain services.
The ASL number is 1800 628 036.
For Defence public service (APS) employees:
The Employee Assistance Program (EAP) is a confidential and free service. It is provided by professional counsellors who will provide practical assistance to APS employees, and their immediate family members, who may require counselling services.
Appointments can be made via the EAP hotline on 1300 366 789.
For former ADF members and former Defence public service employees and their immediate families:
Special arrangements have been made to extend the EAP service for immediate, initial counselling to former ADF members and former Defence public service employees and their immediate families who raise or have raised allegations affecting them with the external review team and who require counselling assistance. The EAP is a confidential and free service provided by professional counsellors.
This service can be accessed via the EAP hotline on 1800 451 138 and selecting Option 1 - Crisis Intervention.

Delivery of the Report prepared by the Review
The Minister for Defence and Secretary of the Department of Defence received Volume 1 of the Report (covering general findings and recommendations) and the first part of Volume 2 of the Report (covering individual allegations) on 11 October. The final Volume 2 will be provided to the Minister and Secretary in March 2012.

Raising new matters with the Review
The Review cannot take action to investigate, assess or make recommendations to the Minister or Secretary in relation to any new matters. If you wish to raise a new matter, you can do so and we will acknowledge receipt of your matter. However, we will not be able to take any action in respect of your matter unless and until the Minister and Secretary decide we may do so after they have considered our Report.

If you have a new matter to raise, we suggest you consider raising the matter directly with an entity which can take action or help you now. The appropriate entity might be one or more of Defence, the Defence Force Ombudsman, the Inspector General Australian Defence Force, the Department of Veterans' Affairs, the Australian Public Service Commission, Comcare, the police, a counselling service or another entity.

Status of matters already raised with the Review
In Volume 2, we are making an initial assessment of each allegation within scope that has been raised with us, making a recommendation as to whether further action should be taken and advising on the appropriate mechanism for such further action as may be warranted.

We have been dealing with over a thousand separate matters. They all require very careful consideration and it is taking us some time to work through them all.

We are not commenting about the matters that we are reviewing or have reviewed. We are not discussing with individuals whether their matter has been reviewed, nor what recommendation has been or will be made.

It is for the Minister to decide, after he has received the full Report, whether he will release the assessment and recommendation in respect of each matter to the person who raised the matter with the Review. We cannot release that information to you."

...blah blah blah.
So what is the point? The Defence Enquiry like most government enquiries, is a token investigation designed by the Australian Government to sunset clause its accountability.
The most significant revelations will be kept 'Classified' at ASIO headquarters in perpetuity. The true accounts will be kept from the public, so what will change?

Well, hopefully this account may help future soldiers get a better deal.
I take my hat off to anyone prepared to serve their country.

Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia

Reprinted from the ABC news
(words in brackets are mine)

Protected dugongs and sea turtles are being cruelly slaughtered in Queensland's Torres Strait to supply an illegal meat trade, an investigation by ABC's 7.30 has found.

The program has aired confronting footage that shows the brutal methods used to hunt the animals, with turtles being butchered alive and dugongs drowned as they are dragged behind boats.

The investigation throws into sharp relief the conflict between Indigenous Australians and animal rights activists over traditional hunting methods and exposes a black market in animal meat.

Activist Rupert Imhoff spent a fortnight in the Torres Strait, filming the hunting of the turtles and dugongs, both listed as vulnerable to extinction.

He used a secret camera to film scenes of animal cruelty, including the slow death of a sea turtle.

"It didn't actually die until they took off the bottom shell, actually peeled off the shell," he said.

"And then it just let out one last gasp of air and passed away."

Both dugongs and turtles are protected by federal law, but the Native Title Act gives an exemption to traditional owners, who can hunt to satisfy their personal, domestic or non-commercial communal needs.

The traditional hunting methods are seen by animal activists as deeply cruel but Queensland exempts native title hunting from its animal cruelty laws.
(human laws can't over-ride animal rights, or their indigenous rights)
'Too sensitive'
("Too sensitive" is simply political-correctness at the costs of the welfare of sentient animals. It's a cop-out)

Lawyer and advocate Rebecca Smith says conservation groups avoid criticising Indigenous hunting.

"It's just too hard, too prickly, too sensitive," she said.

"It's often deemed people who are opposed to traditional hunting are often called racist, but there is nothing racist about saying this is cruel."

National Indigenous radio broadcaster Seith Fourmile is a passionate advocate of the Indigenous right to hunt. He has nothing to do with the scenes of animal cruelty exposed by 7.30.
(Any "rights" must also be seasoned with responsiblities and consideration for other living creatures)

"We're working with the RSPCA to actually look at that cruelty to animals," he said.

It's just too hard, too prickly, too sensitive ... people who are opposed to traditional hunting are often called racist, but there is nothing racist about saying this is cruel.

(more like reverse racism - these traditional owners have the "right" to atrocities against defenceless and so-callled protected native animals, but they are protected from normal, average Australians?)

Rebecca Smith

"But it has got to be a cooperative approach."

The slaughter in Australia's north goes well beyond the bounds of traditional hunting.
(There are indigenous peoples who are protective of our wildlife and concerned by their slaughter and declining numbers. Indigenous peoples should be the custodians of our environment and wildlife, not their enemies)

Former abattoir worker Colin Riddell has spent years collecting evidence of dugong and turtle killing. His investigations reveal the killing goes much further south in Queensland's coastal waters.

James Epong is a Mandubarra man who lives on his traditional lands an hour south of Cairns.

The Mandubarra have declared a moratorium on the taking of turtle and dugong, but around them an illegal meat trade flourishes.

"Nine times out of 10, the illegal trade is to sell the meat for the benefit, for grog money or drugs," he said.
(There's nothing "traditional" about grog and drugs or the black market)

"One person that we know of in Yarrabah made $80,000 in one year."

Mr Fourmile says there are also non-Indigenous people involved in the illegal trade.

"They are involved with the trading, with selling it, passing it down - some of the turtle meat has gone as far south as Sydney and Melbourne," he said.

In the Torres Strait, Horn Island appears to be a transport hub for the illegal trade. On four separate occasions, 7.30 has confirmed multiple eskies arriving on the afternoon flight from Horn Island to Cairns.
'There's no jobs'

All the Indigenous people interviewed by 7.30 recognised the illegal trade and are committed to ending it.

"There's no jobs on Aboriginal community, let's not lie about it," Mr Fourmile said.
("Green" jobs should be created as park rangers and protectors of native animals and their habitats)

"There's no doubt this is happening. I'm not going to lie about the fact that there is some people out there doing it."

Cape York saltwater people like Frankie Deemal are working to end the esky trade.

There's no jobs on Aboriginal community, let's not lie about it. There's no doubt this is happening. I'm not going to lie about the fact that there is some people out there doing it.
Seith Fourmile

"We don't have no legislative framework in place in which we can police the kind of rogue killing, the kind of outsiders coming into our place," he said.

"We don't have the kind of legislative assistance to do that."

And the Mandubarra people are helping to protect the turtle that has helped sustain them.

"I went out to get one where I normally go and there was just nothing there," said James Epong.

"I came home empty-handed and I thought, 'I can't have this'. I want my kids to experience what I'd experienced. So from that day we just said no more hunting."

For the Mandubarra people, the turtle hunting ended in 1993.

Queensland's Department of Environment and Resource Management was contacted by 7.30.

In a statement, the department said it "takes the claims very seriously and will investigate all reports of illegal hunting and poaching".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This has been going on for some time. The department's assurances are rather hollow!

My curse on that island nation is working. Immoral cult poaching of whales in Australia's Southern Ocean (on the other side of the world from Japan), fishing Blue Fin Tuna to the brink of extinction, and annual slaughter of dolphins at Taijin - their culture is backward. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

Operation Divine Wind is over and the whaling fleet is heading home early with a fraction of their quota! For eight years Sea Shepherd have obstructed the whale killers in the Southern Ocean, and they will continue to obstruct them for another eight years if that is what it takes to end their illegal hunt. Without any government support, Sea Shepherd's ocean warriors say they have found and shut down Japan's key whaling factory ship, Nisshin Maru, deep inside Australian Antarctic waters. As an anti-whaling nation, they should not have been inside Australian territorial waters. The Sea Shepherd crew are under-rated modern-day heroes, undermining years of Australia's inept and wasteful diplomatic pressure on Japan. Whaling is effectively shut down for 2012. It has cost no Australian dollars, except what has been donated by the public. The fact that Japan had a "factory ship" is a contradiction in terms for a fleet that is meant to be using harpoons for bona fide scientific research! They are either the most ineffective and inefficient scientists in the world, or very clever illusionists to be able to continue their thinly disguised commercial whaling right under our very noses - just south of Tasmania.

While tiger quoll and others wish to claim animal rights and various takes on how we should exist--is any-one interested that the wise burghers-had the choice of either accepting the eye-witness report of the West Australian professor and his wife--whom both saw the dingo departing from the Chamberlain tent--or the Northern Territory Government and Legislative authorities--who decided they did not want their new tourism centre and at that time burgeoning new industry--to contain 'wild animals'. For this US backed venture--we incarcerated an innocent person--and then as all fall-guy scenarios go--we rather than the responsible parties--then paid the compensation. These ignorant and totally unfit representatives still maintain their memoirs are worth reading.

Why Geoffrey's direct criticism of my comment was moved by the administrator of this site separate to my comment seems unjust. Readers only see one side of the argument. I am not concerned about the truth in such conflict at this stage. How does anyone know the truth about what is going on in a civil war?

For the benefit of Geoffrey seeking atonement, here is what I wrote (March 5th, 2012 Tigerquoll). I let the readers judge...

..'All suppliers of arms to sides in civil war are criminally complicit, as I said above.."any other countries that have supplied arms to Syria in the recent past are to be ruled similarly" - Russia, China, the US included. "This must go for all sides in the civil war."

I am not concerned about the truth in such conflict at this stage - both sides inevitably lie. How do any of us know what the truth is while the war rages? Propaganda and restricted/selective media taint the stories coming out. So to believe one side or the other is to pre-judge based upon unreliable information.
Subsequent investigation as in Libya will reveal what the truth was, but during a civil war all reported truth must be treated with a grain of salt - unless independently verified by a reliable objective source - is there one in Syria at this stage?

What I am more concerned about now is stopping the slaughter.

For Geoffrey (above comment) to suggest "both China and Russia deserve praise" as arms suppliers is immoral.
What was/is the solution to minimise the slaughter in Libya/Syria?
I am not advocating invasion of any nation. I do not support any war.

As I said, "UN Peace Keeping needs to be War Stopping, else we will see more Rwanda's, Sarajevos, Somalias, Sri Lanka's...
'How' is the problem solving challenge, but Ban Ki-Moon hasn't even got to thinking that way."

Wrestling between respecting national sovereignty and preventing internal civil war slaughter is a challenge not yet worked out by the UN. This is a priority for it.
A first step surely is early recognition of impending civil war and stopping the arms trading.

Geoff and Sheila, I suggest more effort carefully reading would be more constructive than expended in ad hominem criticism of the messenger.'

Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia

Editorial comment: I apologise for any confusion or upset that my actions may have caused authors with regard to my moving parts of this discussion. The above comment, from the third paragraph onwards, had been previously posted in the comments section beneath the article The Chainsaw Report on world illegal logging, Australian forests, plus volunteering in Foreign Aid organisations of 3 March. I judged that a more appropriate place to continue the discussion was here in the comments section beneath the Admin article containing Sheila Newman's excellent comments Syria -70% vote to end one-party state - why aren't we celebrating?. I also hoped that this would draw the attention of more readers to this article and the linked broadcast which reveal facts about that conflict which have been concealed from the public by the mainstream nesmedia (and much of the 'left'/'alternative') newsmedia.

Why Geoffrey Taylor's post having been moved here has been objected to is unclear to me. Tigerquoll's original comment was left where it was posted and was linked to by Geoffrey Taylor's above comment. So any reader should have been able to follow the link back to Tigerquoll's original comment, read it and form his/her own judgement. However, Tigerquoll apparently thought it necessary for the post, that Geoffrey Taylor's above comment was a response to, also be posted here to enable readers to be able to fairly evaluate the different viewpoints, and no-one has stopped stop him.

Should it also be thought necessary to have Geoffrey Taylor's above post also included on the page on which the post it is in response to is posted to, no one will prevent that. However, if this practise were to be adopted more generally, I think candobetter would become more bloated than it need be. Other candobetter readers and contributors are more than welcome to add their own views on how to best facilitate fair discussion on candobetter (as well as on the Syrian conflict under discussion between Geoffrey Taylor and Tigerquoll).- Ed.

The following is in response to a comment All suppliers of arms to sides in civil war are complicit posted elsewhere by Tigerquoll. - Ed

(Tigerquoll has since reflected upon his statement that he is "not concerned about the truth in such a conflict" and has agreed with me that of course we should be concerned about the truth.)

Tigerquoll wrote:

What I am concerned about is stopping the slaughter

So I would expect and hope. So how would you have ended the bloodshed in Libya at the time when the UN Security Council voted to support NATO's "no-fly" zone over Libya on 17 March 2011, as the US military now wants to do over Syria? At that point in time only hundreds of civilians at most had been killed by the Government and none that I know of murdered in cold blood. (Feel most welcome to provide any evidence to the contrary). After the "no-fly" zone was imposed, NATO began bombing Libyan armed forces and civilians in support of the NTC 'rebels'. At least 50,000 Libyans died by the NTC's own estimates in the civil war. Libya's infrastructure was devastated and its oil wealth stolen by foreign corporations. That hardly "stopp[ed] the slaughter", did it? How are similar measures against Syria going to stop the slaughter?

For Geoffrey to suggest "both China and Russia deserve praise" as arms suppliers is immoral.

In fact, I did not praise Russia and China for supplying arms to Syria, but if the Assad Government of Syria had not had weapons to defend itself, it long ago would have suffered the fate of the Libyan Government. Given the wars that the US its allies and proxies have inflicted on the region since 1991, why should countries like Russia or China be condemned for having supplied the Syrian, Iranian and Libyan and other governments with weapons to defend themselves?

What was/is the solution to minimise the slaughter in Libya/Syria?

You should read Sheila's article, above.

The solution is to respect the will of Syrians. 57% of Syria defied the insurgent terrorists' call to boycott the recent constitutional referendum. Of those who voted, an overwhelming 89% voted "Yes" for the reforms that ended the Ba'ath Party's one party rule over Syria. Syrians opposed to Assad should use their vote at the forthcoming elections.

I am not advocating invasion of any nation. I do not support any war. ...

Then you should avoid making statements that essentially mirror the impression that the mainstream (and phony liberal/left) newsmedia is trying to give.

I think you should at least study more carefully the evidence such as is to be found on Global Research, that the Syrian Government, far from being the cause of the violence, is only acting to defend itself and its citizens against an insurrection now supported by foreign military forces on Syrian soil as the recent capture of 13 French Officers in Homs demonstrates.

I am agnostic as to whether a dingo took the baby or not, however i do understand what it is like to keep being brave when confronted by mass media frenzy. I can empathise with Lindy insofar as when i was facing court for the charges against me for 'interfering' with dingoes, i was utterly terrified and could barely walk. but i had to maintain an outward appearance of strength. no one sees how much you cry at night or how it affects you 'forever'. anyway, thanks for a balanced and interesting article. i appreciate the fact that you have included all the submissions we made.

Sign the petition! The Great Barrier Reef doesn't just matter to mining companies, governments or tourism agencies. It's a place that matters to us all, and the UNESCO World Heritage Committee is charged with its protection. Sign the petition to stand up to the mining industry and protect the area from development. SIGN HERE Add your name to the petition to UNESCO and Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke to: Immediately halt all dredging and industrial development in the Great Barrier Reef World Heritage Area and surrounds, and not to approve any major coastal developments until the strategic assessment has been completed. THE Great Barrier Reef faces a "death by a thousand cuts" from increased shipping and port development, a World Heritage delegation has been told, yet the threats will continue to be multiplied. The World Heritage delegation visit is in response to concerns about the projected growth of coal and gas exports through the reef yet at the same time, if all proposed developments proceed, coal exports along the Queensland coast are estimated to increase from 156 million tonnes last year to a whopping one billion tonnes a year from 2020! The area will be facing increased port traffic, and disturbances, along with toxic pollution from agriculture, overfishing, population growth and tourism. Even small changes in temperature can have a devastating effect on the natural environment. Sea temperature rises of just 1 or 2 degrees centigrade can cause coral bleaching and death on a worldwide scale. The crown-of-thorns starfish is the biggest threat to the Reef because they eat their size in coral cover every day, and some weigh as much as 80kg. Their outbreaks are caused by human impacts on the ecosystems. Outbreaks of crown-of-thorns starfish (Acanthaster planci) have been a major issue on the Great Barrier Reef and other Indo-Pacific reefs for nearly 40 years. The Crowns of thorns only has two predators, The giant Triton snail and the Large Wrasse. It also mainly eats one thing which is coral although species of it may vary. The crown of thorns starfish was introduced from East Asia. They come to Australia stuck to the bottom of boats, in cyclones and any other form of transport they can find. Coral reefs are being degraded by an accumulation of stresses arising from human activities. In simple terms, stresses can be grouped by the actions of people extracting material from, and placing materials upon, coral reefs. Over-fishing, pollution and coastal development top the list of chronic stressors. Coal is one of Australia's top export earners, and the Great Barrier Reef sits off the coast of the eastern state of Queensland, the country's largest coal-producer. "The creation of mega mines in central Queensland, the accompanying export infrastructure and increases in shipping traffic, as well as the burning of the coal they produce, place an incredible burden on Australia's Great Barrier Reef," the environmental group Greenpeace said in a report. The Reef supports a $6 billion tourism industry which employs 67,000 people and should be conserved as a unique and valuable natural asset rather than be eroded by "developments" that will turn the area into a shipping lane.

This brings to mind a marvelous quote from American activist and author Derrick Jensen in "Endgame: The problem with Civilization" (2006) “Surely by now there can be few here who still believe the purpose of government is to protect us from the destructive activities of corporations. At last most of us must understand that the opposite is true: that the primary purpose of government is to protect those who run the economy from the outrage of injured citizens.”

All suppliers of arms to sides in civil war are criminally complicit, as I said above.."any other countries that have supplied arms to Syria in the recent past are to be ruled similarly" - Russia, China, the US included. "This must go for all sides in the civil war."

I am not concerned about the truth in such conflict at this stage - both sides inevitably lie. How do any of us know what the truth is while the war rages? Propaganda and restricted/selective media taint the stories coming out. So to believe one side or the other is to pre-judge based upon unreliable information.
Subsequent investigation as in Libya will reveal what the truth was, but during a civil war all reported truth must be treated with a grain of salt - unless independently verified by a reliable objective source - is there one in Syria at this stage?

What I am more concerned about now is stopping the slaughter.

For Geoffrey (above comment) to suggest "both China and Russia deserve praise" as arms suppliers is immoral.
What was/is the solution to minimise the slaughter in Libya/Syria?
I am not advocating invasion of any nation. I do not support any war.

As I said, "UN Peace Keeping needs to be War Stopping, else we will see more Rwanda's, Sarajevos, Somalias, Sri Lanka's...
'How' is the problem solving challenge, but Ban Ki-Moon hasn't even got to thinking that way."

Wrestling between respecting national sovereignty and preventing internal civil war slaughter is a challenge not yet worked out by the UN. This is a priority for it.
A first step surely is early recognition of impending civil war and stopping the arms trading.

Geoff and Sheila, I suggest more effort carefully reading would be more constructive than expended in ad hominem criticism of the messenger.

Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia

Geoffrey Taylor's most recent response to Tigerquoll has been moved to the comments section below Sheila Newman's excellent article of 1 March, Syria -70% vote to end one-party state - why aren't we celebrating?. - Ed

Whilst it would be a mistake to look at China through rose-tinted glasses, both China and Russia deserve praise and not condemnation for having recently prevented yet another blood-drenched invasion by the US and its allies with the use of their veto on the UN Security Council. Had they done so last year the invasion of Libya could have also been stopped.

The above comment by Tigerquoll inadvertently repeats the lies in the mass media, that are intended to justify plans by the US and European and Middle Eastern allies to launch yet another destructive and bloody war.

Have you learnt nothing from history, Tigerquoll?

In 1990 Iraq was set up by the US amabassador to Iraq April Glaspie after neighbouring Kuwait began slant-drilling for oil under the border. After the invasion by Iraq, the US public relations firm Hill and Knowlton cooked up the incubator babies lie (2 min, 46 sec) to turn world public opinion against Iraq. The US then launched the invasion, supported by Australia. Iraq's infrastructure was devastated. Over ensuing years, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children died as a result of sanctions.

The pretexts used to justify the subsequent war against Iraq in 2003 was no less a fabrication, nor were the lies used to justify the invasion of Libya last year.

A similar pack of bare-faced lies were used only last year to justify the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Before you make further contributions in regard to Syria, Tigerquoll, could I suggest you read Sheila Newman's article of 1 March and look at the 5 minute YouTube Broadcast to which it is linked?

For more in-depth news about, Syria, Iran, Libya, etc, visit globalresearch.ca, particularly, the story SYRIA: Arab League Head of Mission Refutes Western Media Propaganda of 28 Dec 2011.

China's supply of arms to Syria makes it an accessory to mass murder in Syria, so should automatically exclude China from having any veto power at the UN on resolutions on Syria. Any other countries that have supplied arms to Syria in the recent past are to be ruled similarly. This must go for all sides in the civil war. UN Peace Keeping needs to be War Stopping, else we will see more Rwanda's, Sarajevos, Somalias, Sri Lanka's... 'How' is the problem solving challenge, but Ban Ki-Moon hasn't even got to thinking that way. Token talk is complicity. The other matters are less relevant. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

Wen Jiabao is a paper tiger on tiger protection. Wen Jiabao needs to criminalise tiger killing and impose a minimum mandatory life sentence for such a crime, extending to chinese citizens outside china and any chinese implicated in such killings Wen Jiabao needs to close all tiger farms in china. Wen Jiabao needs to make a public international declaration condemning any use of wildlife parts for any human purpose, including for TCM Wen Jiabao needs to overhaul chinese customs inspections to crackdown on the wildlife trade Wen Jiabao needs to establish a tiger sancturay for the South China Tiger of sufficient size and protection to enable the species to recover back from the brink. Else Wen Jiabao is a paper tiger (???). Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

If you are interested in the Doncaster Rail Study, this is a chance for you to make some input. Note the dates and times and places. Doncaster Rail Study – Community Workshop/s This is an important opportunity to provide feedback and input into this study. There is a choice of three workshops as follows: Date: Monday 26 March 2012 Time: 6:30pm to 9:00pm Where: Richmond Town Hall, 333 Bridge Road, Richmond Date: Wednesday, 28 March 2012 Time: 6:30pm to 9:00pm Where: 11 Marwal Avenue, North Balwyn Date: Thursday, 29 March 2012 Time: 6:30pm to 9:00pm Where: Function Room 1, Level 1, Manningham City, Council, 699 Doncaster Rd., Doncaster The workshops are intended to: § Present the options as developed to-date § Gain community input § Discuss key issues and opportunities. RSVP: http://www.doncasterrailstudy.com/2012/01/youre-invited/#comments

Tigerquoll, I want to take up your criticism of the Chinese government for vetoing 'the United Nations urgency to save Syrian citizens from mass slaughter from their own government'. Personally I think the mass slaughter is far more likely to come from US/Europe intervention (followed by invasion) and that the ultimate objective from the US/Europe block is to isolate Iran. Of course Russia and China are also after Middle Eastern Oil, but they don't seem to be resorting to massive brutality at the moment. How about responding to Syria -70% vote to end one-party state - why aren't we celebrating? (Posted March 1st, 2012 by admin), which sees a problem in what we are being told by the English media about Syria
"70 per cent of Syrians voted in referendum to end one party rule and to have elections but have been hit by EU sanctions anyway. Aljazeera reported that no-one would vote, but it seems that a lot did. Basically the world is dividing into an Eastern and Western bloc over this, with Russia and China supporting Syria's right to settle its own affairs and the US and other Anglophone western nations and the EU are looking for a pretext to intervene and threatening crippling sanctions. Further down we might expect EU imposition of a no-fly zone to give them an excuse to invade, as has already happened in Libya. Is the end-objective to isolate Iran for its oil reserves? What's up? Here are some views."

Chinese government culture is backward. It condones perpetuating immoral Traditional Chinese Medicine It condones perpetuating immoral slaugher of wildlife - like Tigers on the brink of extinction. It is immaturely intolerant of criticism and differing points of view. It condones perpetuating its illegitimate invasion of its neighbouring country, Tibet, and continues to perpetuate persecution. It vetos the United Nations urgency to save Syrian citizens from mass slaughter from their own government. China as a producer, is simply an insecure copier of foreign intellectual property and has been embarassingly exposed as a copyright thief. Chinese national pride is thus confined to its history. China's magnificent ancient legacy of Confucius leadership and technological innovation has been tragically abandoned by immature generations misguided by those lost to Mao. Now Chinese are only infatuated with Western wealth and misguidedly convinced that followship of the West is the only way to achieve the materialistic trappings of the West. That the EU last month came cup in hand to China for bail out finance, must be a wake up call to such folly! No wonder smart and able Chinese are emigrating. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

Forests cover 31 percent of Earth's total global land area, shelter 80 percent of land-based biodiversity and provide livelihoods for more than 1.6 billion people. In recent decades, Amazon deforestation has made Brazil the world's fifth biggest climate polluter.

Australia should join the widening effort to stamp out illegal logging, according to testimony given recently by tropical ecologist William Laurance with James Cook University. Laurance noted in his presentation that much of this timber makes its way to China, which Laurance calls a "black hole" for illegally harvested timber. The timber is then manufactured into consumer goods and often shipped abroad to countries such as Australia.

Prof Laurance said China had developed ''an immense export'' market for wood and paper products, driving large-scale clearing of tropical forests in Sumatra and Borneo.

The richness of its wildlife is a huge tourist pull, but corruption, overpopulation and logging is decimating Madagascar. Nowhere else on earth has so many unique animals and plants, and nowhere else is environmental destruction so rampant and unchecked. The most valuable tree is rosewood, upon which the aye-aye and other lemurs depend, but it is being sent to China to make antique reproduction furniture for the wealthy.

China is now the “wood workshop for the world,” according to Forest Trends, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank, consuming more than 400 million cubic meters of timber annually to feed both its burgeoning exports and growing domestic demands. Production of paper products has also grown dramatically in China, doubling from 2002 to 2007. As much as half of the timber and much of the paper pulp consumed by China is imported, primarily from tropical nations or nearby Siberia,

Laurance warned that timber lobbyists would try to play down the environmental and economic impact of illegal logging. Lobbyists such as Alan Oxley with World Growth International, "are being well-paid to defend some of the biggest forest-exploiting corporations operating anywhere." They use the term "illegal" very loosely, and the widespread use of Special Agricultural and Business Leases to circumvent forestry laws.

China's economic growth is at great expense to the planet and can't be sustained. Globalization means that China is able to expand and become a planetary predator.

With global population to increase by another 2.5 billion, the environmental threats we have now, due to the number of people needing the economic benefits of natural resources, will further be exacerbated. It's hard to see any of our forests, or the tropic species dependent on them, surviving into the next century. Our planet is under threat from exploding human numbers, consumption levels, and the inability to control the rapacious appetite for timber.

See also: Forest Heroes Awards Crown UN's International Year of Forests of 10 Feb 12 at ens-newswire.com - Ed.

I was Lindy I would be pissed off. The truth finally accepted by a pre-judging media. All that wasted publcity and no Womans Day 'EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW', 'no books, no t-shirts, no mini-series, no merchandise - key ring, souvenir spoons, fridge magnets, or even snow globes. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

We are big users of firearms in Australia. There are many groups of people are are legally allowed to own guns. There are sporting shooters, ADF, Police, farmers, "game" hunters, security personal, and despite the controls, criminals are still able to access arms. Such is the violent nature of our society, crime, killing and intimidation are all part of our culture. The physical action of a shotgun involves a spray of pellets, and a flying bird can be wounded by even a single pellet. Other birds flying with the target bird can also be wounded. In Victoria, duck shooter numbers have drastically decreased from 95,000 in 1986 to about 19,400 . However, over the last few years, the numbers of duck shooters on the state's wetlands dropped to a very small number. Unfortunately, there are four states in Australia that still allow duck hunting, despite strong evidence of the extreme suffering involved. Every year, during the government-declared 'open season' many thousands of ducks are shot over the wetlands of Australia in the name of this ‘sport'. During the hunting season shooters in South Australia will be allowed to bag 12 ducks each day and, in the state's south-east, 25 quail. Tens of thousands of native animals and birds, including kangaroos, emus, wombats, kookaburras and cockatoos, have been legally slaughtered in Victoria in recent years. Landowners or managers who cannot resolve a wildlife issue by non-lethal means may apply for a permit to destroy or scare the animals. Inspectors don't even have to visit the property or provide non-lethal alternatives. On the other hand, conserving and protecting wildlife is very difficult and undervalued and underfunded. Victoria is largely in private hands and large swathes are already cleared and damaged. Roads, droughts, degraded habitats, and urban sprawl are taking their toll. The colonial-like mentality of land-holders with political-historical power, and the right to kill native animals, still exists in the Victorian government. It's hard to control crime and live in harmony, without the threat of violence, while so much killing is allowed - legally.

A few nights ago I saw and heard an interview on ABC TV of the head of the Finnish Education system where the standards lead the world. The 2 aspects which came across to me as distinctive were that nearly all children attend the public system which is well funded. The other factor which seemed critical was the high esteem in which teachers are held and the high educational standard needed to be accepted to train as a teacher. The high status of teachers in Finland is also reflected in excellent remuneration. Following from the high level of respect for teachers, the curriculum is not fully dictated by the state and much of the design is left for teachers within a school.

Well I've read some posts here and it's nice to know I'm not the only one who feels we are being pushed aside. I bet you can count on one hand the last time someone asked for your advice or your thoughts. Me too. I'm no one special just a 56 year old Aussie male, no degrees and definitely not a member of any political party. Just one who sees and hates the way this society doesn't want know or pay attention to those over 50. It was us and our descendants that has made this great country by going through hard times of flood, bushfires, war, depression and epidemics. My grandmother brought up a son and handicapped daughter on her own by working shift work for about 40 years. Without the government payments available now. You did what you had to do, we do what we have to do. My grandfather served in 2 world wars but because he didn't die, his name can't be placed on the local war memorial. And others have told me a lot worse. Our honest sacrifices and now we have a Prime Minister who was not born in Australia, lied about a carbon tax and today has made Mr Carr, not a parliamentary member who lives in New Zealand, Foreign Affairs Minister. I just don't understand..... Everyone seems happy to let things go, whinge to those that will listen and write stories (blogs). I've had enough I think its time to act. On the 30th June, I and anyone else who wants to join me, are going to walk to the state parliament house to show anyone who listens that we're not dead yet.

Hans Brunner wrote to me today at 0905hrs, about his involvement as a forensic expert in the Azaria Chamberlain appeal case in the Northern Territory: "My involvement was the identification of hairs collected from Azaria's singlet and jump suit. The court was told that they were from a Cat and not from a Dingo. After my examination of the same hairs there was absolutely no doubt that the hairs belonged to a Dog and never a Cat. Since there were no other breeds of dogs allowed in the area I left it to the court to conclude that they must therefore be the hairs of a Dingo. In my book The Identification of Mammalian Hair the reference hairs used to describe dog hairs came from a dingo, (Canis familiaris dingo). I had easy access to dingo pelts at work. So when I saw the hairs in question, recognition was instant. The court knew all along that Lindy was innocent and when the matinee jacket was found it gave them an excuse to release her from prison. And now, they use another excuse, namely that after all, Dingoes do kill and injure children and adults which was already well known at that time. This is now in order to be able to admit that a dingo took the baby Azaria. I hope that this will be their verdict. I have my own idea as to what happened on that day. All I can say is that Lindy would have to be twice as clever as Houdini to accomplish what they assumed she did. The reason for all this coverup was in order to protect the tourist industry and to say that dingoes are not dangerous to people, even at the expense of an innocent person that had to go to prison. Hans Brunner" [Some small typos corrected by Sheila Newman]

Each human century adds a new sentient being to having rights.

One doesn't have to read too far back into human history to be shocked that women, children, and non-whites had no rights.
In this Century, Wildlife Jurisprudence is overdue.

Our grandchildren will then be shocked that we abused wildlife.

Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia

We should not be surprised at anything that might happen even with domestic dogs and humans. Many dogs are very well trained and patient with children but even “good dogs” will snap if they feel threatened. Most victims of dog bites are children under 5 probably because they can’t fully distinguish the dog from a toy, get too close and test the patience of the animal. We need to see our relationships with other animals in their full variety of possibilities and not in some idealized way. In the real world animals eat the babies of other animals. On an ABC documentary on Macquarie Island the other night, killer whales ate baby seals on their first foray into the sea. That’s a bit like your child being abducted and murdered on her way to school for the first time! A baby penguin was being attacked by another sea bird. The most dominant species of all, the human, takes the babies of other animals from their mothers, takes the milk intended for these babies, feeds the babies from a machine then transports them for slaughter and consumption in their first few weeks of life. In the egg industry I'm told that male chicks are dispatched in grinding machines as soon as their sex is identified. Their sisters are of course incarcerated for life as egg laying machines. We have probably all seen the obscenely cruel way that animals are slaughtered in abattoirs in Indonesia but also in Australia! Compared with the probable dingo crime of taking an unguarded human baby for food, these acts, systematically enshrined in industrial food production for humans rein supreme as heinous cruelty. Outside domestic food production other widespread enshrined practices include baby kangaroos having their heads belted against tow bars in Australia, baby seals are clubbed to death in Canada, and dolphins are attacked as they swim in the shallows in Norway. All this aside, humans still love dolphins, risk their lives to save whales, wildlife carers have sleepless nights, years on end helping orphaned wild life to survive. One needs to be 3 dimensional in understanding the real complex and contradictory interrelationships of humans and other animals in the 21st century.

Nice pithy analysis. Missing the word "up" in the first sentence. I sent this question to a group of green activists - not one of them has even bothered to reply: I had seen that conservatives who consider themselves well-informed are less likely to accept climate change as scientific fact - I didn't know that the correlation holds for level of education. Does anyone know if there is a poll comparing liberal and conservative views on whether it is possible to replace dirty sources of energy with enough clean alternatives and still maintain any semblance of modern civilization? My experience with deniers is that the first question they have is, okay, if burning fuel is causing climate change, what are you going to replace it with? When they're told that it can be replaced with wind, solar, geothermal, hydro, nuclear, etc. they just don't believe it. So, they get very suspicious of the entire enterprise, and throw the concept that we are changing the climate out the window completely, because they can't imagine life without their toys. In this sense they are quite correct. If we are going to stop using dirty fuels to an extent that would slow climate change, it would require enormous reduction in lifestyle, particularly for westerners. Sacrifice. No more plane trips, for starters. No more giant tankers transporting global trade. I'd be very interested to know if there has been any exploration of conservative/liberal attitudes about this issue.

Dingoes are wild animals like wolves, so why should the myth persist beyond media advertising revenue justification? Australian's affection with dogs has bred a culturally misguided extension that wild Australian native Dingoes, since they look like domesticated dogs, can be domesticated. Fraser Island experiences repeatedly have disproven that myth tragically. Mainstream naive tourists (lowest common denominators) who pervade into Dingo territory, need to be pre-educated about 'Wildlife Respect' akin to those fanciful about salt water crocodiles. Australia's low brow bogan dog infatuation is an anathematic contaminant to Australia's pure Dingo. The Dingo is Australia's wild dog. As a native animal, it deserves respect and protection from feral dogs and their feral owners alike. That Australia's public (twisted and guided by corporate media) after 30 years still is pent up on judging and debating the question whether a wild Dingo could have dared taken baby Azaria Chamberlain, reflects Australian social immaturity and rejection of native Australian values in favour of 19th Century inherited colonial values, when wildlife were demonised as 'vermin'. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

The media at the time of Azaria's disappearance focused on Lindy's apparently calm almost clinical demeanor when really it was probably within the normal range. Not everybody reacts in all situations after a trauma as though they were in a soap opera. The stories that went around about sacrifice were complete rubbish based on people not having a broad enough apprehension of the various branches of the Christian religion and being too ready to set the Chamberlains apart. I agree with Nimby that parents need to take responsibility for their children in the presence of animals, especially animals they don't know. How would a hungry dog know that a delicious looking plump helpless baby is forbidden to him?

As many critics have pointed out, there is no necessary connection between bigger and expanding populations and economic growth (i.e. bigger population = bigger economic growth). With respect to per capita GDP, 8 of the top 10 nations in per capita GDP have populations less than 10 million. The 2010 Intergenerational Report, Australia to 2050 - Future Challenges ignited the 2010 immigration debate with its now famous figure of Australia having a population of 36 million or more by 2050 based on the average immigration rate of the past 40 years and the boosted 2010 rate under Kevin Rudd. Ziggy Switkowski, company director of insurance and banking firm Suncorp Metway, believes that "With 100 million people this wide brown land could be as pleasant as Italy. Given the progress in engineering and technology anticipated in the decades ahead (especially the 'manufacturing' of water - at whose cost?), our continent could surely sustain more than 100 million people". "Our pursuit of improving standards of living demands economic growth. Real GDP growth is the product of population and productivity change. A 1.5 per cent growth, both in population and productivity, is a virtuous equation ? producing 3 per cent real growth in GDP". Most of the benefits flow to the elite, those who assume that the Ponzi-like economic growth paradigm can continue to deliver endless prosperity, and endless benefits. There are no natural, social or economic limits to growth! Australian living standards have declined with population growth, and purchasing a house means being trapped into years of hard labour. Economic growth does not depend on population growth; it depends on improved productivity through advances in technology, intelligent use of natural resources, and labour efficiency.

The newspapers at the time swelled their circulations with wild speculations on bizarre ideas due to the family being Seventh Day Adventists. This church is not a sect but a mainstream Christian church, except that they meet on Saturday and are vegetarian. They are actually quite conservative, not outlandish with secret rituals and dogma. There was plenty of evidence of dingos and wild dogs around at the time, and the police washed clean the space blanket evidence with footprints on it. Why is it assumed that wildlife in Australia are completely benign and children can be left unsupervised? It's quite possible that somebody did have a hand in disposing of the baby's body - perhaps to avoid "bad" publicity for the camping ground? Exaggeration of "aggressive" behaviour at Fraser Island should not be used to support this inquest. The evidence should stand on it's own and children should not be left unsupervised around wildlife, and dingoes should have their food supplemented with food drops.

Hans Brunner, who is a contributor to candobetter.net and a specialist in hair identification was largely responsible for the reversal of Lindy Chamberlain's conviction. My understanding was that the crux of the matter was a botched identification of blood by a British forensic specialist, which turned out not to be blood, plus a lack of understanding or ability to identify dog (dingo) hair.

Today the news reports another Costa cruise ship disaster, Costa Allegra, currently adrift in the Indian Ocean off the Seychelles, in known Somali pirate waters.

Lovely!

But who are the real pirates? We've got your fully paid booking, sorry no refund, enjoy your cruise!
Cruise of a lifetime? Choose carefully, not cheaply!

'A blaze in the engine room of the Costa Allegra saw the liner stranded in the dangerous and choppy Indian Ocean seas and it was forced to make a mayday call seeking assistance from nearby vessels. The cruse ship is adrift in pirate-infested seas off the Seychelles with no power and with more than 1000 people on board.
The Costa Allegra is from the same fleet as the much larger Costa Concordia, which crashed into an Italian island in January, in a tragedy that claimed 32 lives.
The first vessel to come to Allegra's rescue, a French 90-metre fishing boat, reached the liner overnight and the two captains were in radio contact, cruise operator Costa Crociere said.'

"At dawn, Costa will evaluate the assistance operations the ocean-going fishing ship can provide," a company spokesman said.

A second large fishing trawler was due to arrive at the scene, with two tugs expected a few hours later on Tuesday afternoon.

[Source: 'Costa cruise ship adrift after fire, Nine News, 28th February 2012]

So, premium paying cruise ship passengers are being rescued by a fishing trawler? Great! Great holiday! Some quality tour!

Carnival Criuse Lines is a joke. Who would go cruising in international waters with such a budget liner? The entire passenger contingent should sue Carnival - the profiteering bastards!
How much do the Carnival executives earn and investment shareholders get paid at passenger expense?

No wonder Carnival are spruiking discount deals currently. Check the hype: Carnival's website
Try taking out insurance once the insurer realises you're cruising Carnival!

Bon Voyage, have you updated your will?

Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia

Initially, back in 1982, 1983, ... I was amongst those who, in ignorance, ridiculed Lindy Chamberlain's claims that a dingo had taken Azaria.

I referred to it in 2009 here (on this site) and here (on larvatusprodeo.net):

"I believed for many years that Lindy Chamberlain killed baby Azaria. ..."

I read "Evil Angels" and saw the movie some time after I initially judged Lindy to be guilty, but that was some time ago.

It seems to me that the death of Azaria can only be explained by one of two implausible explanations:

1. Lindy killed her own child, probably as part of a bizarre religious sacrifice

2. A 'dingo' took Azaria and successfully disposed of the body.

I choose the second as the least implausible.

Industrialism and our industrial lifestyle paradigm are not “inherently evil”, as some/many environmentalists believe. The problem with industrialism is that it’s physically impossible going forward, which is something that folks like Ezra and other industrialism proponents don’t understand. At the end of the day, industrialism need not be “killed” by Luddites or Deep Greens; it is dying from starvation—from ever-increasing NNR (non-renewable resource) scarcity. (But) just as people who believe that our industrial lifestyle paradigm is exclusively a function of human ingenuity, technology, and hard work are whackos; so are people who believe that they can live in post-industrial bliss in some sort of “subset solution”, from compounds to transition towns. As for people who actually believe that some type of “totally back to Nature” alternative is preferable, my response is “go for it; nobody is stopping you…” Chris Clugston

Salt can be used to clean teeth. I mix fine salt with bi-carb soda and this seems to work well too.

That article you linked doesn't surprise me in the least. Most demographers and economists the world over, and politicians, want population growth. The more the better. Even if they say they aspire to zero population growth, you know they don't mean it and would be appalled if it were achieved. But this is nothing new. As Sheila Newman has described population growth is always in the interests of the power elite, even though it usually isn't in the interests of ordinary people. This quote from the article shows just how the rapid growth of the past couple centuries has skewed expectations of what is normal: While the population in the country is growing very fast at 1.54% annually, the annual population growth of the state is just 0.48%. which is very low. 0.48% growth is still very high and unsustainable over the long term.

Veg or Non-Veg? India at the Crossroads by Mia MacDonald & Sangamithra Iyer Brighter Green, 2012. Free 46-page download Brighter Green founder Mia MacDonald and associate Sangamithra Iyer ask, Can India provide enough food for its people as well as support hundreds of millions of cows and buffalo and billions of chickens in increasingly industrialized conditions? And can it do so while protecting its natural resources and the global climate, and ensuring progress in human development? MacDonald, previously a researcher for the United Nations Population Fund, World Wildlife Fund, and Worldwatch Institute, describes Brighter Green as a public policy action tank addressing issues that span the environment, animals, and sustainable development. The questions that MacDonald and Sangamithra raise are not new. They also troubled Sir Sardar Datar Singh, founder of the first modern dairy farm in India. Singh headed the Indian Dairy Science Association from 1948 to 1955, by appointment of the first Indian prime minister, Pandit Jawarharlal Nehru, at recommendation of Mohandas Gandhi. Singh on the one hand led Indian animal agriculture in the present direction, and on the other, inspired and encouraged his granddaughter, Maneka Gandhi, who has for 30 years been the most prominent vegan in India, and the most caustic critic of the Indian dairy industry . Veg or Non-Veg? India at the Crossroads does not introduce much that Singh did not consider, though he is not known to have foreseen global warming. By now, however, the consequences of the various trade-offs that Singh promoted in his efforts to help feed India are much more evident. India in Singh's time had recently endured several of the most catastrophic famines of the 20th century. India today feeds nearly four times as many people, and is a net food-exporting nation. Yet much of the progress that Singh helped to introduce was possible only because most Indians of his era were vegetarians, who rarely consumed non-dairy animal products and by-products. Neither then nor today could India grow enough fodder and pump enough water to sustain high-volume production of meat and eggs. Whether India can sustain the present volume of dairy production is among the questions that MacDonald and Iyer examine. India has a several-thousand-year history of ethical vegetarianism, MacDonald and Iyer open. Vegetables, legumes, and grains lie at the center of the country's varied regional cuisines, but cultural, ethical, and economic strictures on meat eating are weakening. India is no longer a majority vegetarian nation. Only about 40% of India's 1.2 billion people identify themselves as vegetarian, according to a 2006 survey. India's fast-expanding middle class "is driving growing demand for meat, eggs, and dairy products like ice cream and cheese, as well as milk," MacDonald and Iyer assess. India is now among the world's largest producers of milk, poultry meat, and eggs. It has the world's biggest dairy herd, leading the world in production of buffalo milk, ranking second in production of cows' milk. Total Indian milk production increased by 44% during the first decade of the 21st century. An estimated eight million male buffalo calves die from neglect or starvation each year in India, to preserve their mother's milk for human use , note MacDonald and Iyer. In response, India's national Department of Animal Husbandry, Dairying, and Fisheries has launched a program to encourage raising male buffalo calves for meat, specifically for export. Cows are sacred to Hindus, who are about 80% of the Indian population, MacDonald and Iyer explain, and their slaughter remains controversial, but beef from buffalo is now the second most widely consumed meat in India after poultry. India is also the world's fourth largest producer of eggs and fifth largest producer of poultry meat, principally from chickens, MacDonald and Iyer continue, offering frequent footnotes and sidebars to document their contentions. In 2010, India was the world's fastest-growing poultry market, outpacing Brazil, China, the U.S., the European Union, and Thailand. The costs of producing chickens for meat in India are the world's second lowest, and production of eggs in India is cheaper than in any other country, according to the Poultry Federation of India. World Society for the Protection of Animals president Mike Baker has enthusiastically endorsed the Rural Backyard Poultry Development program, introduced by the Indian Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs in 2009. The idea was to help local egg producers keep the 30% of Indian national egg market share that they then still had, after losing 70% to industrial poultry conglomerates. But that battle has already been lost. Just 10% of India's poultry production remains small-scale or 'backyard,' wrote MacDonald and Iyer just two years after the Rural Backyard Poultry Development program debuted. About 90% of the more than two billion meat chickens produced in India each year are raised in industrial-style facilities, MacDonald and Ayer report. In the 1950s an average of five eggs were produced each year for every Indian, MacDonald and Iyer write. Now, 50 eggs are technically available for each Indian, but while urban Indians eat an average of 100 eggs a year, a rural Indian eats an average of 15, slightly more than one egg a month . The poor & the food chain Although more Indians are eating higher up the food chain, under-nutrition remains stubborn and persistent, MacDonald and Iyer emphasize. Forty-four percent of Indian children under age five are malnourished. One of every three of the world's malnourished children lives in India. Yet, paradoxically, More than 20% of Indians in urban areas are overweight. In India today, MacDonald and Iyer summarize, both malnutrition and obesity-related diseases are among the leading causes of death. The situation is not improving, especially for the rural poor. India is the world's third largest producer of cereals, MacDonald and Iyer explain, after China and the U.S. But after decades of increases in the post-Green Revolution period, availability of food grains per capita is now declining. Increasingly the rural poor are squeezed between drought cutting into grain and vegetable production and food prices driven up by rapidly increasing demand from livestock producers. But the steep rise in meat production and decline of vegetarianism paradoxically do not mean that Indians are on average eating more meat. Consumption of meat [in India] is less than one-sixteenth of levels in China, and one-thirty-fifth of those in the U.S., MacDonald and Iyer explain. Data show that for the period 1997-2007, per capita meat consumption was static or declining. Most of India's meat, eggs, and milk are consumed by those in middle and upper economic brackets. And while India's middle class comprises at most just one quarter of the population, it is the segment growing most quickly-and where shifts in diet are seen most clearly. Livestock industry analysts predict that Indians will never eat as much animal protein as people living in the U.S. or China, MacDonald and Iyer continue, but because the Indian human population is so large, and because the Indian middle class is growing rapidly, small shifts can have large consequences. In particular, MacDonald and Iyer warn, Water scarcity is a reality in all of India's states, and animal agriculture is a significant source of water pollution. Much of the Indian subcontinent is already arid. Global warming is exacerbating the trend. United Nations Food & Agricultural Organization director Jacques Diouf recently warned that as much as 18% of Indian grain production might be lost to drought resulting from anticipated effects of climate change. Offering a succinct yet comprehensive diagnosis of the threats to Indian food security presented by the growth of animal agriculture, MacDonald and Iyer conclude with a disappointingly weak and politically unrealistic set of recommendations. Most call upon the Indian government to reverse policies supportive of animal agriculture that originated with Sir Sardar Datar Singh. These policies are supported by an ever-expanding bureaucratic infrastructure, including the National Meat & Poultry Processing Board, established in 2009, committed to expanding the meat industry and building the meat export trade. A government with these goals is unlikely to reverse course except under political, economic, and ecological duress felt more acutely than the perennial pressure to secure re-election by continuing policies that have proven popular among middle class voters and campaign donors. The mission that MacDonald and Iyer meanwhile envision for Civil society organizations working on environmental, food security, rural development, gender, agricultural, or animal welfare issues is to seek opportunities to work more effectively together to counter the growth of intensive animal agriculture in India. Kindness Farms Yet among the most ambitious projects underway in India to counter the expansion of animal agriculture are the Kindness Farms funded by Australian investment banker and vegan philanthropist Phil Wollen. The Kindness Farms might be described as a hybrid of Gandhian ideals with the notion that doing good can at least break even, and perhaps inspire profitable business ventures. We have inaugurated our latest Kindness Farm in Visakhapatnam, Wollen e-mailed on January 29, 2012. It is huge, attractive, and productive, raising fruit, vegetables, feed-grasses, and flowers, as well as housing rescued cattle, buffalos, dogs, and horses. Kindness Farms will produce significant quantities of organic food, which is almost impossible to buy in India, Wollen said. Organic vegetables and fruit command a high premium in all the Indian cities. So we will soon acquire a retail outlet and will sell our produce directly to rich Indians at a premium. The money will be used to support our animals. The food will be branded Kindness Fresh Foods. We have also launched our fourth Kindness Mobile Restaurant, feeding hot vegan meals to impoverished street people, Wollen continued. The recipients are encouraged to see the food not as charity but as a stipend. They already share the streets and their meager meals with the street dogs. So we ask them to keep their eyes open. If they see puppies being born, or a man whipping a horse, or a lorry hitting a cow, they should call our shelter and we will send our ambulance. This idea is gaining traction in the community. We have committed to a third Kindness Farm in Bangalore, within the Morning Star orphanage, Wollen added. t is already productive--sown, nurtured, harvested, cleaned and cooked by the orphans. An older Kindness Farm in Puttaparthi is growing massively, Wollen said. The food is sold in our organic shop on the main street. We have decided that every Kindness Farm will now have a Kindness Kitchen, Wollen finished, which will provide a hot meal to all the shelter staff and animal herders before they start the day. This means we are assured that they have a full stomach, a healthy vegetarian meal, and good health. They also become very loyal employees. We have also decided to employ as many people as possible from the local village and teach them trades. We also intend to educate their children and teach the parents to read. Countless charitable projects have tried to alleviate animal and human suffering in India. There is no guarantee that the Kindness Farms will be more successful than many that have long since failed and been forgotten. But just as Sir Sardar Datar Singh understood that he had to develop and make an economic success of his own dairy farm before he could influence government policy, Wollen understands the importance of demonstrating his ideas before prescribing them. "Sustainable development" is an oxymoron India is currently home to about 1.21 billion people, representing a full 17% of the earth’s population. India's 2011 census showed that the country's population had grown by 181 million people in the prior decade. Demographers expect India's population to surpass the population of China, currently the most populous country in the world, by 2030. 'Sustainable development' is a contradiction in terms. According to a report in the Times of India (6 May 2010) the government of India will not introduce legislation to reduce population growth. Said Union health minister Ghulam Nabi Azad, We are not in favour of controlling population growth through any kind of legislation, but by way of generating awareness and persuading people to have a small family size for betterment of the health of the mother and child. More than 50% of the population is in the reproductive age of 15-49 years, which imparts momentum to the population growth. California, India, the Middle East and China show the most pronounced groundwater depletion. Water is being pumped out of underground groundwater aquifers faster than it's being replenished, with farming likely the primary cause. In many high-intensity food-producing regions,including the plains of northern China, India's Punjab and the western United States, water limits are already being 'reached or breached'. Sustainability, Carrying Capacity, and Overconsumption

In the article linked to here, the author claims that lower fertility in Kerala threatens the economic prosperity of that state.

KOCHI: If the results of the census is anything to go by, it is high time Kerala revised its family planning policy as the state may register negative population growth in the next two or three decades. Demographers point out that the sliding population will have far reaching consequences as human resources of the state which has already registered a dip will come down drastically. if plans to prevent such a situation are not devised.

Even while the country's population is growing at fast pace, the 2011 census reveals that the population growth of the state is very low and it is negative in two districts.

The above contrasts curiously with the more reasoned conclusion to the article:

"... but economists in the state are of the opinion that the current situation can be turned in Kerala's favour by adopting plans which suit the situation. "

The demographic transition or low rate of population can be used for the benefit of the state, provided the authorities use it properly. ...

I was advised of the above in an e-mail from the Population Media Centre.

See also: Azad concerned about growing population of 14 February.

The Delphi Technique: Let’s Stop Being Manipulated! By Albert V. Burns More and more, we are seeing citizens being invited to “participate” in various forms of meetings, councils, or boards to “help determine” public policy in one field or another. They are supposedly being included to get ”input” from the public to help officials make final decisions on taxes, education, community growth or whatever the particular subject matter might be. Sounds great, doesn’t it? Unfortunately, surface appearances are often deceiving. You, Mr. or Mrs. Citizen, decide to take part in one of these meetings. Generally, you will find that there is already someone designated to lead or “facilitate” the meeting. Supposedly, the job of the facilitator is to be a neutral, non-directing helper to see that the meeting flows smoothly. Actually, he or she is there for exactly the opposite reason: to see that the conclusions reached during the meeting are in accord with a plan already decided upon by those who called the meeting. The process used to “facilitate” the meeting is called the Delphi Technique. This Delphi Technique was developed by the RAND Corporation for the U.S. Department of Defense back in the 1950s. It was originally intended for use as a psychological weapon during the cold war. However, it was soon recognized that the steps of Delphi could be very valuable in manipulating ANY meeting toward a predetermined end. How does the process take place? The techniques are well developed and well defined. First, the person who will be leading the meeting, the facilitator or Change Agent must be a likable person with whom those participating in the meeting can agree or sympathize. It is, therefore, the job of the facilitator to find a way to cause a split in the audience, to establish one or a few of the people as “bad guys” while the facilitator is perceived as the “good guy.” Facilitators are trained to recognize potential opponents and how to make such people appear aggressive, foolish, extremist, etc. Once this is done, the facilitator establishes himself or herself as the “friend” of the rest of the audience. The stage is now set for the rest of the agenda to take place. At this point, the audience is generally broken up into “discussion—or ‘breakout’—groups” of seven or eight people each. Each of these groups is to be led by a subordinate facilitator. Within each group, discussion takes place of issues, already decided upon by the leadership of the meeting. Here, too, the facilitator manipulates the discussion in the desired direction, isolating and demeaning opposing viewpoints. Generally, participants are asked to write down their ideas and disagreements with the papers to be turned in and “compiled” for general discussion after the general meeting is reconvened. This is the weak link in the chain, which you are not supposed to recognize. Who compiles the various notes into the final agenda for discussion? Ahhhh! Well, it is those who are running the meeting. How do you know that the ideas on your notes were included in the final result? You Don’t! You may realize that your idea was not included and come to the conclusion that you were probably in the minority. Recognize that every other citizen member of this meeting has written his or her likes or dislikes on a similar sheet of paper and they, too, have no idea whether their ideas were “compiled” into the final result! You don’t even know if anyone’s ideas are part of the final “conclusions” presented to the reassembled group as the “consensus” of public opinion. Rarely does anyone challenge the process, since each concludes that he or she was in the minority and different from all the others. So, now, those who organized the meeting in the first place are able to tell the participants and the rest of the community that the conclusions, reached at the meeting, are the result of public participation. Actually, the desired conclusions had been established, in the back room, long before the meeting ever took place. There are variations in the technique to fit special situations but, in general, the procedure outlined above takes place. The natural question to ask here is: If the outcome was preordained before the meeting took place, why have the meeting? Herein lies the genius of this Delphi Technique. It is imperative that the general public believe that this program is theirs! They thought it up! They took part in its development! Their input was recognized! If people believe that the program is theirs, they will support it. If they get the slightest hint that the program is being imposed upon them, they will resist. This very effective technique is being used, over and over and over, to change our form of government from the representative republic, intended by the Founding Fathers, into a “participatory democracy.” Now, citizens chosen at large are manipulated into accepting preset outcomes while they believe that the input they provided produced the outcomes which are now theirs! The reality is that the final outcome was already determined long before any public meetings took place, determined by individuals unknown to the public. Can you say “Conspiracy?” These “Change Agents” or “Facilitators” can be beaten! They may be beaten using their own methods against them. Public "consultation", meeting, planning sessions are all of they type. The Save Ivanhoe movement, with community "consultation" from the Council, has managed to be conned. The local residents are now part of the consultative process when they objected to the whole idea of high density and high rises in Ivanhoe. Now, they are part of the process in making sure this actually happens - with approval! The community’s interest in its future will be held uppermost in the planning process and demonstrated through an extensive and intensive community engagement strategy, working with Council at every opportunity The Council formed a new Draft Plan in partnership with the community as a guide to development in the Activity Centre. A grand achievement for an community that almost unanimously initially did not want any high rise or high density developments in their Village area! Albert V. Burns writes from Utah and is a regular columnist for the Spanish Fork Press. He has an extensive knowledge of the conspiracy which has been working so hard to destroy this nation and incorporate it into a one world government. He has developed an extensive personal research library and the knowledge to find what he needs, to write his columns.

In the UK sprawl into farmland is not permitted. When one leaves a town along a road, one is suddenly in farm country. It is an respect for countryside. Developers aren't allowed to peddle their sprawl in perpetuity like in Australia. Canberra is not ACT pending sprawl. There needs to be a dirty big circle in the ground around Canberra that sets the outer limit for housing. Most of its inhabitants draw upon the public purse. Canberra always grows when Labor gets its pendulus turn at office. In the 1970s it was called the green belt. What happend to that concept - too many developer donations shaped political convenience. Australian politics is just as corrupt as in Asia. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

I don't know how many kangaroos there are now in Australia but I imagine it would far fewer then 200 million. That kangaroos would be advantaged by the loss of habitat from land clearing, fences criss crossing where they want to go and loss of wildlife corridors and that they would be better off with increasing numbers of humans using more and more of the land for their own purposes does not make sense.

As Judge Judy says "If it doesn't make sense it is not true.

The documentary Kangaroo Mob shown on ABC on Tuesday night angered and upset many people. While it had some value in showing perhaps a better view of kangaroos than most television does, many viewers seemed to be disappointed. My major concern was that it showed a lot of Don Fletcher's shonky research[1], (remember him, he was involved in the Belconnen kangaroo kill).

But I was also concerned that the narrator stated that landclearing, planting crops and building dams had contributed to plagues of kangaroos, which is quite blatantly wrong. With 5 major river systems across Australia, lots of billabongs and lagoons, and enough natural grasslands to support 200 or more million kangaroos, they couldn't get anything to eat or drink till we arrived and built dams and planted crops? Pull the other leg.....

Footnotes

[1] Linked page on the Australian Wildlife Management Society web-site contains link to Don Fletcher's 18.8MB pdf presentation.

I have just stumbled on your wonderful book about your family. We have common ancestors on your mother's side and my mother and your mother were in regular contact. Could you send me your email address, I'd like to make contact.

Editorial comment: This comment has left me and other contributors to candobetter scratching our heads. Would the contributor, please make another post and (1) give more information about yourself and (2) explain which family you are referring to. We won't publish that information if you don't want us to.

Thanks NIMBY, I think we've weeded out the virus Wild claims about 'Facism', 'hypocrisy', 'sacred cows', 'romanticism', 'ideal pre-European invasion models', 'cute and furriness', 'power'... Must be a government employee being paid to surf the Internet, perhaps a disaffected wildlife officer. Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

"The sustainable population of any species within any given environment is a variable". Kangaroo joeys have a very low survival rate, and their numbers expand and decline with the seasons. Their populations are thus sustainable. However, humans assume they have the right to over-ride environmental variables and simply expand at exponential rates. Infinite growth is not "sustainable" in any sense of the word. "Human values of morality and compassion are alien to most animals". Carnivorous animals hunt and kill other animals as prey, not for the pleasure of violence, greed, and an acquired taste for flesh. The most violent and sadistic creatures on the planet are humans, many of who find suffering and violence beneficial and enjoyable. Meat is an optional food item, and can be detrimental to health - our bodies, animal welfare, the environment and to species' balance. "Life on Earth now depends on humans". No it doesn't. On the contrary, humans devalue and destroy ecosystems and species. Humans are late arrivals on our planet, which managed very will over long periods without us. "To allow the kangaroo to become a sacred cow would cause long term imbalance to its environment". Wrong again. Kangaroos have evolved and adapted in Australia for some 16 million years!!! They are perfectly balanced species with the vast tract record to prove it. If they caused any imbalance, our Colonial fore-fathers would not have found a rich, bio-diverse and pristine Australia.

Anthropocentrism is a god given right to conquer. Humans' sense of their god given right to populate the planet and take and use animals as they choose, is no different to a whole bunch of Hutus rocking up with machettes and sorting out the Tutsis. It's ok so long as you're not a Tutsi. Philip Mitchell Graham comes across as an extreme supremacist. Facism is being nasty to other humans, whereas anthropocentrism is being nasty to everything else. Look up ecocentrism and get out of the 20th Century! Tigerquoll Suggan Buggan Snowy River Region Victoria 3885 Australia

I don't understand why the growthists remain in this country. All they do is try to change it. They are rotten, unhappy citizens, constantly carping and complaining about what the rest of us enjoy - and trying to bully us. Maybe Australians could get together and buy all the members of the property lobbies tickets to China, seeing as they like huge populations and growth so much. Who should we nominate first?

Has anyone else bought those incredibly cheap 300g Dental Pro toothpastes they're selling in Coles supermarkets lately? They are in huge red tubes with big white tops. I got two for a dollar each. But then I read the fine print - well, not all that fine; it's in screaming capitals on the side. (But how many people read what's written on their toothpaste tubes, apart from the brand name?) "Dental Pro Big Red Jumbo toothpaste provides you and your family with a complete oral hygiene solution. A triple protection formula to help prevent tooth decay and gum problems. Plus enhanced fluoride protection for healthier gums and stronger teeth. DO NOT SWALLOW. CAUTION: KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN. FOR ADULTS ONLY! Do not use this product on children six years of age or less." Active ingredients: Sodium Fluoride - 0.22%, 0.1% as F (1000 ppm as F) I rest my case. (And I only kept one to tell people about.) We all get this stuff in our water already. I'm a nurse and I haven't noticed any reduction in cavities since they started putting it in the water in Victoria, decades ago. The children of the poor still have rotten teeth. I tell you what, though, after I read the fine print on this Big Red Jumbo Dental Pro, I looked for a non-fluoride toothpaste. I found only one brand at the supermarket: "Grants of Australia, Herbal and mineral toothpaste - No Sugar, no fluoride, no Aluminium, No Sodium Lauryl Sulphate. Calcium, Potassium, Phosphorous, Magnesium, Sodium. Manufactured in Australia by Lateral Food Corporation Pty.Ltd. Oakleigh, Victoria. www.lateralfood.com No warnings against swallowing it. Probably means it isn't harmful. It seems to clean my teeth.

1.1%? 1.2%? These growth rates are of course extremely, unsustainably high. But the Howard and Rudd governments boosted the growth rates in Australia to 2%, and this is what the business community here has come to accept as normal. Its dropped down to about 1.7% now, and already they are starting to bleat that Australia is falling behind. If and when the growth rate drops down to 1.2% they will absolutely panic. (Of course 2% - 1.2% - even 0.5% are all too high. The only truly sustainable growth rate is zero. And before that we'll probably require a period of negative population growth.)

Humans are exposed to tens of thousands of chemicals all the time, why pick on fluoride? Fringe literature against fluoride has no validity because its claims are unverified. Emotive posturing and cherry picking of unverified 'facts' are poor substitutes for critical thinking and boring old evidence. I'd be more worried about the long term effects of endocrine disruptors in our food chain. If you want pure water, run it through a drum of crushed charcoal and sand - simple.

Does anyone read this mess and believe it? This article is supposed to have been written by a scholar? The writer's control of sentence structure, vocabulary and even topic is barely high school level, and is not compatible with a university science education.

Then there is the small problem of scientific method - whoever wrote this clearly has no understanding of science, or critical thinking for that matter. Strings of adjectives and rhetoric do not a valid argument make! Cheery picking random 'facts' and figures from unknown sources is no better. Simply declaring something an 'obvious fact' does not make it so. Finding an error in one part of an argument does not automatically invalidate it all. Oh... and if you're going to use them, references need to be real and formatted consistently.

Let me get a little clever here. If there was a conspiracy, why would the men in black use a specialised high tech explosive that would easily give them away? Oh... and where are the people admitting to being part of this massive conspiracy a decade later?

Finally, let me explain to everyone a few 'facts' about fire. Fire is a chemical reaction that needs three things to exist, oxygen, fuel and heat. The kind of fuel used does NOT limit the intensity of a fire as stated above. Anyone who has ever use a gas torch knows that a fixed amount of fuel can burn much hotter if you just add more oxygen to the mix. This is exactly what happens when a fire burns inside a chimney or any hollow tower. The fire sucks up the air in the column, creating a massive updraft which in turn excellerates the fire and again the updraft. This is why chimney fires are so dangerous and often destroy houses.

Editorial comment I re-read article and found it informative and stimulating. I was unable to find where Lyn Margulis has shown that her "control of sentence structure, vocabulary and even topic is barely high school level". Given Phillip Mitchell Graham's use of the words "Cheery Picking" and "excellerates", it would seem that he is casting his stones at Lyn Marguilis from a glass house. I have not found any evidence of comprehension of the above article let alone refutation of the case she put.

In another comment, Get a filter and get a life (!?!) Phillip Mitchel Graham has dismissed concerns that adding fluoride to our drinking water may be adversely affecting our health. A response to that comment can be found here. - editor

Humans rarely make logical decisions. What we do is rationalise our acts retrospectively, or reuse a previous rationalisation out of habit. The real issue is coming to terms with this fact. The only 'real' act a human can do is be kind to others and transcend their immediate self interest. The decision to participate in a society based on evidence, the precautionary principal and compassion is just another of life's choices people are free to choose. Keeping that commitment is recognising that the consequences of our actions are infinite and that decision making is endless. We need a new political party dedicated to evidence based policy.

Does anyone remember Black Wednesday? The term was only in limited use by certain local media and only discovered this name recently. Those who remember this even usually call it 'the 1969 fire' or call it by some geographic location. Over 280 fires broke out on 8 January 1969. Areas seriously affected included Lara, Daylesford, Dulgana, Yea, Darraweit, Kangaroo Flat and Korongvale. Twenty- three people died, including 17 motorists at Lara, trapped on the Geelong to Melbourne freeway. This 'fire' was as big as any other major fire event in Victorian history, yet it has no easily recognisable name. The 1969 fire is never far from the minds of old timers in Mt Alexander Shire when the subject of fire comes up. The scares of that fire are still numerous and wide spread, BUT the event has no distinctive name and information about it is fragmented, inconsistent and sketchy. To my knowledge no media during Black Saturday made reference to the Geelong freeway event when discussing the multiple deaths on the roads of Kinglake, yet the Geelong event was twice as deadly. How are authorities and the Australian public supposed to learn from history if they have no universal nomenclature to identify and compare historical events? Australia needs to adopt the cyclone naming system for holistic fire events. Its simple and it works. It must be retrospective with the exception of Black Thursday, Black Friday, Black Saturday and Ash Wednesday. It must not clash with the cyclone protocols. Fire names should probably avoid names of children killed in the same fire event. Giving each major fire event (over a specific time period) a name, gives it a standardised historical identity. Detailed chronological information during the event can refer to the existing 'start location' terminology. Start locations are not useful in a broad historical context because most fire events cause many emergencies over a wide area. Given the social and emotional effects of fire events, an arbitrary generalised name does not single out any specific tragedy as 'more important' than any other location effected.

Your argument is cute but ultimately hypocritical and counterproductive. The sustainable population of any species within any given environment is a variable. To allow the kangaroo to become a sacred cow would cause long term imbalance to its environment. Such damage would not some how be justified even if we were to snap our fingers and magically wipe out our environmental footprint. A romantic tit for tat solution has no place in environmental management. You are also making several false assumptions: We cannot return our environment to some ideal pre-European invasion model, any more than we can turn back time. The life of individual animals are not important in an environmental context. Life is sacred but so too is death. Life demands death. The price of all life is death. The finality of life is what makes it so precious. That humans kill animals is not unusual or even important, what is important is why they kill and how. Human values of morality and compassion are alien to most animals. Some may be cute and furry but they are not innocent angels by our romantic ideals. What we call cruel is simply a way of life to many animals. Should we be proactive in redressing environmental damage? Of course. Should we modify our behaviour to make it more sustainable? Of course. Should we control world wide human population growth? Of course. Should we use all means necessary to prevent localised wildlife overpopulation in a modified environment? Yes. Should our methods and targets be under constant review? Yes. Should we try to restore the past? No. We must attempt to build a new balance of nature, knowing that this will be a dynamic balance. Dehumanising humans as a species is pure fascism. We can choose to part of the solution or the problem, but there will always be death and destructive forces at work. Sometimes it will pay to counteract these forces if the pressure on biodiversity and sustainability becomes too great. Sometimes the damage of the past will come back to haunt us. But in an idea world there should be a balance of destructive and creative forces. Having said that, humans have a LOT of damage to repair before we have the luxury of letting things run their course. We wanted power over the planet and now we have it. Once taken, we cannot easily give it back. Life on Earth now depends on humans. It would not survive our demise because we have poisoned the planet too much. This is why we cannot drop out and turn our backs on civilisation.

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