If Australia decides to 'shut the gate' to the world's rapidly growing population, in an attempt to maintain our high quality of life - then...
Surely Australia should at the very least become a world leader in educating, supporting and assisting developing countries in their struggle to tame excessive population growth.... While dramatically reducing our own excessive consumption and ultimate detrimental impact on our own patch.
Education!!! that’s right education - is the real issue here - instead of a family having 10 children wouldn't it make sense to have enough kiddies to sustain the population not constantly increase it to the demise of ourselves, earthlings and our precious little planet.
Sort it out you crazy humans!
Comments
Trial funded by ordinary people shows up pollies
It should be pointed out to the pollies that ordinary low income people have put their money together to put this court case up and that they (pollies) would be fools to not see the mood change. We the ordinary people have had enough of snow jobs by pollies and Vic Forest over tree felling.
Growthist dominance evidence of lack of democracy
Continued population growth after the optimum human population has been reached cannot be in the interests of the members of society. At best, each member on average, necessarily becomes poorer as a consequence of there being more people to share the resources amongst. On top of that diseconomies of scale caused, for example, by crowded transport infrastructure, crowded accommodation, shopping centres or recreation facilities makes each of us poorer still on average than the simple application of mathematical division would indicate.
The fact that a minority of growth lobbysists is able to profit whilst society on the whole necessarily becomes poorer is evidence of hw dysfunctional and undemocratic any society ruled by politicians who actively encourage population growth must be.
Copyright notice: Reproduction of this material is encouraged as long as the source is acknowledged.
Time for third world charity to be conditional on birth control
Re: 'Comment Power by numbers for cults' 12th August 2010.
Charities that seek donations to help increase human population in countries already overpopulated need to start thinking about the message they are sending and their role in perpetuating the over-population problem.
Until charities take responsibility for linking their donated millions to birth control, the countries and people that they are supposed to be helping will be forever welfare dependent and worsen the world's population problem. Start with the worst offenders - the top ten overpopulated countries!
The top ten countries by population (2009) are:
1. China with 1,338,612,968
2. India with 1,156,897,766
3. United States with 307,212,123
4. Indonesia with 240,271,522
5. Brazil with 190,010,647
6. Pakistan with 174,578,558
7. Bangladesh with 156,050,883
8. Nigeria with 149,229,090
9. Russia with 140,041,247
10. Japan with 127,078,679
Of these, the underdeveloped ones are all but the United States and Japan.
To curb the selfish overpopulation burden these underdeveloped countries are imposing on the planet, all charity, foreign aid, and World Bank funding, over and above non-emergency life support, needs to be made conditional on birth control.
It is time people stop sending cash to these countries.
Do not send unconditional cash! Do not send cash at all! Send solutions! Send condoms, education, vasectomy doctors, provide financial carrots (such as housing) to families with less than 3 children where the father undertakes vasectomy, and other birth control initiatives. But such strategies to be effective need to be long term and consistent, else they will fail. It takes generations to change entrenched cultures.
As for the worst overpopulated developed countries, the United States and Japan, the United Nations needs to demand they both contribute an annual overpopulation levy of say 0.1% of their respective GDP to a dedicated UN fund to fund the above-mentioned birth control initiatives in these underdeveloped nations.
Both countries can more than afford this irrespective of the GFC. Both the US and Japan spend considerably more on militarism (the term 'defence' is a euphemism).
The US and Japan are currently wasting hundreds of millions in chest thumping joint military exercises in the South China Sea as a show of force against North Korea. Yes they have the money!
Complimentary strategies include controlling the arms trade, dealing with government corruption, adjusting trade tariffs to favour underdeveloped countries and addressing the third world debt interest burden.
Charities are situated at the public interface. They are indeed perpetuating the overpopulation problem by doing nothing about birth control, yet they have the power and influence in the money they receive and the role they play to influence the outcome.
This is not to say that others need not be held to account as well (mainly the governments of the overpopulated countries). Others like the UNHCR and foreign aid giving countries are also in a position to tie money to birth control.
You can offer answers to your own questions. But until the rot is stopped by
exposing the falsehood that charities of underdeveloped nations are doing a good job, nothing will change. I do not donate to overseas charities for this reason.
Once such charities are deprived of unconditional donations, their population perpetuating behaviour will be forced to change.
Dick Smith's $1M offer to answer population puzzle
Businessman Dick Smith is offering $1 million to the young Australian who can come up with a solution to bring the country's population under control.
[Source: 'Dick Smith offers $1m to population problem solver', ABC News, 11th August 2010, Paul Miller (AAP)].
Now that's putting money where his mouth is!
Dick Smith has launched the Wilberforce Award in Sydney, arguing that Australia's population doubles every 30 years and that the rate of growth is not sustainable.
Mr Smith says he is not confident the major political parties have the answers to population growth, but a young Australian might have the solution.
He says the world only has finite resources.
"I suppose I'm looking for something like a modern Bob Geldof or a Ghandi or a someone who's going to become famous around the world in communicating the basic fact that you can't always have exponential growth," he said.
is not the ultimate collective aim year in year out to achieve social prosperity, rather than the narrow minded economic growth? Should we not question the assumption that only by increasing population can a society achieve prosperity?
The ABC's online Drum forum has a useful article by ABC TV programme presenter of Stateline in NSW, Quentin Dempster, discussing the new concept of 'Ponzi Demography', that is pre-dated 5th August 2010.
'Joseph Chamie has been quoted as saying: "Like all Ponzi schemes, Ponzi demography is unsustainable. Among its primary tactics, it exploits the fear of population decline and ageing. Without a young and growing population we are warned of becoming a nation facing financial ruin and a loss of national power. Appeals are also made to one's patriotic duty to have children in order to replenish and expand the homeland."
A recommended read is the book by Tim Jackson, 'Prosperity without growth - Economics for a Finite Planet' published by Earthscan (USA) 2009.
The bias distorting the analysis of this problem is the lobbying of politicians pushing for more skilled immigration by those with vested self-interest. Typically this is big donating corporate business targeting cheap imported skilled labour so it doesn't have to spend money on training Australians. It is extreme selfishness since it says to hell with the social costs - that's government's problem!
Any wonder with short-sighted politicians buying the economic line from big donating corporate business, the traditional Australian value of the permanent full time job has been eroded to contracting and casual labour.
Economics
I preface this with - "I am not an economist" in the same sense as the well known disclaimer "I don't know much about ART but I know what I like" (but in the case of art I do know) It seems to me that if we did not have constant growth, we could afford maintenance. There is no end to the work involved in maintaining our infrastructure (apologies for using this awful word) and our homes ! Would this not provide economic activity but in a different direction? For example ,my down pipe that I have been trying to get fixed since April would now be replaced! The workman would have been paid and he would be off to the next maintenance job ! Economic activity still happens without a constant influx of new people. If the economy depends on population numbers why aren't the countries who are losing people via emigration closing their borders to the exodus? What is the ultimate goal of ever increasing GDP? Rather than the economy being seen as an abstraction or symbol of our transactions with one another, in the minds of many, it has became an end in itself!
Financial Carrots for Population Control
Another financial incentive to encourage vasectomies/stop at 2, etc., is the provision of some type of security, however rudimentary, for the aged. Absence of an old-age security safety net in a society encourages parents to have numerous children to provide for them in their old age.
Mirrabooka is still a landfill....
Mirrabooka Landfill (Atlas) is still in opperation. Its the most peutrid place to live...and even sadder, most people dont know there is a landfill there....until its too late.
Weekly Times population opinion poll
Weekly Times opinion poll: can Australia support 36 million?
Already 80% no, 20% yes
further problems with trespassers
Fiona raises some very good points about the failure of the organize illegal entrants onto private land.
My property is on the Reserve Creek Rd stage, with the rally going directly adjacent to a riparian zone on my property subject to a 10 year commitment to the Commonwealth as a national heritage envirofund site.
The rally organizers visited me and everything seemed reasonable,... until the day. As I submitted to the inquiry, the marshals failed to stop trespassers to the extent that I had 50 - 100 trespassers, climbing my trees and damaging the fence. Whats done is done. however, I have submitted some changes required for the next rally to stop all property invasion. Charltons lane was obviously identified as a great free viewing point. 20+ photographers and journalist illegally entering my land cant be wrong plus lots of freeloader spectators.
1. police to stop traffic (vehicle and pedestrian ) at Kanes rd overpass on freeway.
2. Police to stop all pedestrian traffic from entering cudgera creek rd / reserve creek rd
3. marshals not to let ANY person walk up reserve creek rd from stage start point next to kanes rd or to trespass onto neighbors property.
4. Am I entitled to stop the race if people illegally enter my property, place them self at risk (and make me liable?) and the marshals and or police fail to remove them.
The Marshall basically gave up and asked me am I willing to accept the people. It became too big for me to handle.
Maybe I could get some support from the No rally group members as trying to stop this myself may be too difficult.
The challenge is to find a
The challenge is to find a way for economic growth, without entailing population growth. This is why Dick Smith is offering $1 million for the solution. However, with a steady state economy, without the need for growth to match population growth, surely economic stability would be sufficient. Our society's addiction to economic growth must be matched, to appease the inherent greed for wealth that obsesses our society.
The Population "Puzzle" is not really a puzzle at all
The Population "Puzzle" is not really a puzzle at all, but glaringly obvious! What Dick Smith revealed were cold facts, examples and evidence to follow the dots to draw our own (inevitable) conclusions. The idiocy of population growth, when it is clearly hurting our environment, our atmosphere, our infrastructures, our liveability, and our hip pockets, is no puzzle but obvious! Why do people have such blind spots? The human herding instinct is alive and well entrenched in society. Like the Emperor with no clothes, it takes one person, with clear thinking and a public voice, to reveal the obvious!
There are those in businesses, including land developers and the banks, whose interest in limitless growth are obvious - financial. However, there are the magnanimous ideal types, and the academics, Humanists and religious, who consider population growth as "human rights" issue - a global issue - that needs to be addressed by allowing more people into Australia to share the benefits of our natural resources. Why don't they go to South America? There is a lot of "vacant" land there?
The academics born overseas do not have the sense of Australia's "wide brown land" and vast spaciousness that genuine Australians and indigenous people appreciate.
Our government is paying orchardists to burn their fruit trees, and other market garden areas are being bulldozed for urban sprawl, never to be fertile land again. It shows the massive power of the property investment and mortgage industry in being able to hijack State and Local Councils! As Dick Smith says, we really don't know the extent climate change will have on our food growing ability!
Dick Smith very neatly demolished so many myths FOR continual growth - Defence, skills shortages, ageing population, and prosperity.
The global threat of population explosion is clear, and it must not be imported into Australia.
We must set an example for the rest of the world. Our concerns should be global, but first, we must act local.
ousting
As a democracy, is it possible for the people who have had enough of an incompetent state government to lobby the governer to oust a government? I am appalled that in Queensland we have to wait another two years until we have a state election. So, in the meantime this arrogant and incompetent government continues to shift blame, reneg on promises, increase costs of living and shirks responsibility and accountability. Unfortunately, there isn't much of a competent opposition party (LNP) and we may have to vote them in for the sake of getting rid of Labor and their incompetence.
Painful to watch
I watched as much of this as I could stand, I couldn't stand much. The idiocy on display was painful. We had some university lecturer explain that arguments that we are on a path of perpetual population growth and massive overpopulation are "oversimplistic". No they're not. Then someone said that Australia was "selfish" for not trying to relieve overpopulation in other countries by not immediately throwing borders open to 100s of millions of migrants. This would not relieve overpopulation in those countries (those migrants would soon be replaced by new births) but would make Australia grossly overpopulated.
Then the tired old captains of industry bleating about how economic growth requires population growth. Whether they fully realize it or not what they are asking for is perpetual growth, growth neverending, growth until we number in the billions. Then government types talking about "sustainable" population, the need for a "population debate", all the while very carefully avoiding any mention of stopping Australia's population growth, something which is highly desirable and ultimately inevitable but which is anathema to both Liberal and Labor.
I salute Dick Smith who sees clearly where we are headed, which is an Australia numbering in the hundreds of millions or billions of people, and is trying to do something to prevent it. Probably a lost cause, unfortunately, as growing the population is far, far easier and more attractive in the short term than stabilizing it.
Power by numbers for cults
Like Julius Marlowe, I detected the off note in the symphony.
I'm all for population control but, why attack those who attempt to address the human suffering generated by over population? Did they cause it?
Rather than blaming aid agencies that attempt to alleviate human suffering, I would focus my attack and subversive efforts on the religious and cultural institutions that undermine campaigns that promote contraceptive devices and methods.
Also, who is exploiting unsustainable population growth via immigration lotto?
Isn't it convenient that population growth feeds into the capitalist growth paradigm?
Do the capitalists who parlay population growth via immigration into Western nations care?
Does our aid program facilitate or inhibit global population growth? What influence does the christian lobby have on these policies? While everyone trusts government to act nobly in relation to foreign aid, what deals are done to appease moral perverts like Family First and George Pell?
Don't start shooting until you know who and what you are shooting to effect.
Here, here!
"Until everyone of us stands up to religious interference in culture and demand contraception and sex ed for all there can be no solution to poverty. Poverty is after all promoted by religious corporate interests and results in overpopulation."
Builders have had it too good for too long
Master Builders Deputy Executive Director, Radley de Silva, said builders were extremely worried about the future prosperity of Australia under a Greens controlled Federal Senate.
“The building and construction industry is Australia’s fifth largest industry and employs over 184,000 people in Victoria. The Association has been flooded with concerns from members worried about fringe policies which will:
1. Undermine housing affordability
2. Threaten job security
3. Increase industrial unrest and workplace thuggery
4. Prevent and delay the construction of vital community infrastructure
5. Endanger Australia’s fragile economic recovery
The Master Builders say they do not wish to tell people how to vote! However, they have been feted and pampered too long by our State and Federal governments.
Higher density developments increase our urban heat-sinks, and high-rise living generates as much as twice the operational carbon dioxide per person as does single-residential house. There are some savings of the use of cars, but there is much more use of lifts, clothes driers, air conditioners and common lighted areas.
According to the Kyoto Protocol, a country's emissions reduction targets can be partly met by the creation of carbon 'sinks' by creating more forests. Urban sprawl and free-ways require concreting over of green wedges, native grasslands and destruction of trees.
Adding to our population growth rate has meant a boom time for the building industry and investors, but it has added more consumers to Victoria, which adds to the demands for water and power, and more land clearing, and more natural resource consumption. Any individual savings on emissions are swallowed up by more people!
With contradictions between policy and actions, there is little chance of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, or protecting Australia's urban heritage and fringe areas.
The building industry must become victims of a more sustainable Australia, just like coal mining. Instead, we must diversify and create industries compatible with a carbon free, steady state economy.
Dick Smith Population Puzzle
The doco is 8.30pm.
The panel discussion is 9.30pm tonight.
I "got"the population growth/economic growth dilemma in 1971, when I read the Paul & Ann Ehrlich, and the Club of Rome.
How do other people react when Dick Smith says airily that he didn't "get it" till Copenhagen December last year.?
I've got a lot of respect for DS and his breezy, high-energy attitudes. I was a junior member of the team that built his solar car that came forth in the first Darwin to Adelaide race in 1987. We selected high efficiency photovoltaic cells one by one, at the BP Solar factory at Brookvale in Sydney. In 1987, the team was sure that in only a few years, all new cars would carry solar cells.
No PV solar cells are now manufactured in Australia. Although some old BP Solar, and Solarex Sydney plant was bought up by an Silex - an off-shoot of Lucas Heights atomic energy.
I worked at ANSTO in 1987 as a research tech. When I took time off without pay to to Darwin with Dick Smith on the solar car race, I was sacked. ANSTO hates renewables. ANSTO's nuclear research equivalent in Denmark -- RISO -- embraced renewables and is now the pre-eminent testing and auditing station for the world's wind turbine industry. Australia can be a brutal, reactionary place.
Roadkill
I agree with the post above from ‘anonymouse’ almost posted similar myself.
To stop roadkill is impossible and clearly impractical.
The “Wildlife overpasses” in the link supplied by Menkit above seem a practical relatively low cost Alternative for Tree Dwellers. Gets my approval and should be encouraged
Newer sections of the Calder freeway in Vic have a high Chainwire fences which I assume are to exclude wildlife (probably to protect People) though I am not aware of any provision to allow Wildlife to cross the freeway safely. I reckon wildlife crossings should be essential components on all Major Roadways and considered everwhere.
Quark I consider you are drawing an extremely long bow to even suggest that a dead magpie in a 45Km zone was run down deliberately. Unless you were an eyewitness to the event I suggest such wild accusations be kept to yourself. Posting such unsubstantiated notions on an internet forum does nothing for your credibility and merely displays your ignorance.
Guide To Voting against Immigration/ Population And...
Thanks anonymous for posting the link above
Guide to voting against High Immigration.
Would appreciate also a Guide to voting for Constitutional Reform if anyone has appropriate links
See also
http://candobetter.org/node/2127#comment-5125
Poverty promoted by religious organisations
The dictionary definition of MEEK is: forbearing; yielding; unassuming; pacific, calm, soft, It is not about being placid to the point of allowing injustices and wrong-doing to continue. It is about inheriting the Earth - those who will belong to God's kingdom! Downtrodden, maybe, but ultimately victorious.
Christianity has for too long created a plethora of obedience, conservatism, and middle-class correctness. What we need is a radical church, not a silent one. As Jesus said of the Pharisees, they loved their laws and the greetings in the market places, but strained out the gnats and swallowed the camels! They discerned the trivialities of wrong and right-doings, and legalities, and neglected weightier matters, the importance, big picture concerns. These big picture concerns should be more than polite service to the community, good as it is, but about speaking out about the liquidation of God's Creation, about the mass injustices happening today on our planet's ecosystems, and violating Earth's life-supporting ecosystems and fauna so next generations will be denied of a future, a safe and intact planet.
The church's MAKE POVERTY HISTORY campaign was lofty in ideals, but is doomed to failure simply because they forgot to factor in population growth. Not one of these organisations mentioned contraception or family planning. There are pious attitudes that "Human beings are the greatest resource on the planet. We are the apex of God's creation"!
Until everyone of us stands up to religious interference in culture and demand contraception and sex ed for all there can be no solution to poverty. Poverty is after all promoted by religious corporate interests and results in overpopulation.
The meek shall inherit the earth?
So a distant cousin, Julius, needles my blunt tone yet concurs with my message. Does he have nothing constructive to contribute?
The subject matter is one of recurring global calamity, perpetually ignored and assigned to the too hard basket - overpopulation in underdeveloped countries contributing to systemic widespread malnutrition and famine.
It is not a subject for polite reflection. I do not include the word 'please' in my article, likewise I have no respect for those with capacity to address the systemic causes - the wealthy developed nations and their religious charities - yet allow the problem to perpetuate.
A long time ago some religious evangelist prophesised: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." [Matthew 5:5]. It was about keeping the downtrodden downtrodden.
More useful are those who act:
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” - Theodore Roosevelt (US President 1901-1909).
Dick Smith population show on ABC1 tonight
Dick Smith's Population Puzzle is on ABC 1 9.30 p.m. tonight. Find out about it on the ABC interactive webpage at http://www.abc.net.au/tv/populationpuzzle/
Ag Minister Joe Helper unhelpful, should go
'Agriculture Minister Joe Helper said the judgment meant extra precautions needed to be taken before the ban on logging the four Brown Mountain zones could be lifted.
''The decision does not mean that logging cannot occur in these areas in the future,'' he said.'
http://www.theage.com.au/environment/greens-hail-win-on-logging-20100811-11zsy.html
This statement shows no appreciation of democracy or fairness towards the environment. With ministers like these, who needs enemies?
Gillard gov must act against forest destruction
ChipBusters
Actions speak louder than words
Media Release 12 August 2010
Brown Mountain – a Brown Out For Eden Woodchip Mill?
- The Gillard Government Must Act
Conservation group ChipBusters today welcomed the landmark decision in the Victorian Supreme Court to stop logging and woodchipping in endangered species habitat at Brown Mountain in East Gippsland, Victoria
“We hope that this will be another nail in the coffin of the Eden Woodchip Mill and its plans to burn native forests for electricity,” said Noel Plumb, Convenor of ChipBusters.
"Yet again, the farcical Regional Forest Agreements so beloved of the Labor and Liberal Parties have been proved a hollow sham in protecting our precious wildlife."
"Its time for the Gillard Goverment to put a stop to this sham and move the loggers out of our forests and into plantations, once and for all."
“The Eden smash and grab operation has taken millions of tonnes of old growth forest from East Gippsland over the past 20 years and is currently buying some 500,000 tonnes a year at a pittance from Vic Forests.”
“We expect that the Chipmill will not be able to obtain the same level of supply from East Gippsland as a result of the court decision which will force a far reaching review of Victoria’s woodchip operations.”
“We will now see whether the NSW Government will try to supply the Chipmill with yet more trees from our already devastated forests and endangered species habitat."
“On the Keneally Government’s current form we can expect a renewed assault by State Forests and the woodchippers on critical koala habitat in the Eden and South Coast forests where community challenges have recently forced a temporary halt to logging.”
“We warn them that the community will be waiting for them, all the way to the next election and beyond if necessary.”
For further information and comment:
Noel Plumb ChipBusters 0425 23 83 03
Where will Australian climate refugees go?
Yes, and I do not understand why, when most of our cities are on low-lying vulnerable sea-boards, that some climate-change activists seem to think that those cities will not be innundated just like the ones in Bangladesh.
Where will the Australians go?
The Greens seem to be upper middle class people with a belief that everyone lives like them. They seem to have no feeling at all for what is happening to the suburban bush and human rights among ordinary people here.
I sometimes wonder if they are just a front for the big parties.
The Coalition has at least
The Coalition has at least put a number,170,000 pa, on immigration. If this includes permanents plus temporaries this is a significant reduction. Gillard's reluctance to commit indicates that she is unlkely to move substantially, the appointment of panels is a ploy to put decisions off into the future. Burke's panels at first sight appear to be loaded with pro-immigration. Some analysis of the composition will be needed if the ALP win.
People afraid of "vacant" land?
Why is it that many people think that "vacant" land, land without humans and human structure, is "wasted", sterile, and must be "used", claimed and filled with more people? It's a very anthropocentric attitude, that land and biodiversity does not have any intrinsic value, and that unless people are there, with housing estates, economic developments, roads and production, that it is a "wasted" resource. There is little consideration that our planet has an abundance of life, with thousand of other mammal species alone.
People see the vast expanse of Australia as potential occupation for more population, and thus we are severely underpopulated. With teaming masses of people, overflowing in the world's sprawling cities, we are made to feel selfish, or guilty, of withholding our resources to relieve some of the burden of overpopulation in the rest of the world! This is a misguided magnanimous gesture due to globalisation. We would simply be importing over-population here!
Australia has poor and ancient soils, little of it arable, and is one of the driest continents.
Land has its own ecosystems, its own bio-diverse functions, its own values, its own intrinsic and inherent beauty. It nurtures many species, and revives our oxygen, air, absorbs harmful heat and the rain.
Australia is a land of sunburnt plains, sweeping wide ranges, of wild rivers, of migratory and wading birds, and the extensive species of unique wildlife.
A little bit of Australiana: easily overlooked since mass immigration and the push for globalisation.
"I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of drought and flooding rains,
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel sea,
Her beauty and her terror -
The wide brown land for me."
Dorothea MacKellar (1908)
Why can't we love Australia for what Australia is, BIG without having to "fill" it with more people and feel we have to utilise our natural heritage as a global resource?
Animals
How about if the Morons who drive too fast on our roads and kill innocent wildlife were culled..,would that cut the roadkill toll down..How about we start culling useless, mindless, cruel, heartless cretins in this country and give our beautiful wildlife a chance to survive...Humans are in plague proportion and are like a rampant virus destroying this earth...All animals on our earth have as much right to exist in peace and protected from harm as do humans and the sooner we wake up to that fact we are rapidly running out of time...
John Marlowe needs to tone it down
Once again John Marlowe prones somewhat intemperately. I was put off by the title, and made queasy by the first paragraphs, which seemed one dimensional, tub-thumping and probably racist. Then the article changed to allay my fears and I really couldn't see anything morally wrong with it. Does Marlowe have to be so confrontational, though, to make his points? And must they be so blunt and rather simplistic? A bit more work and detail and perhaps fewer articles would make for some real winners.
you'll never stop roadkill
you'll never stop roadkill unless you ban the use of roads, cars, trucks, bikes and lets not forget trains.....
The Greens are calling for climate refugee status
The Greens are calling for a new visa category for climate change refugees from the Pacific. They have released a policy on the Pacific, saying Australia needs to do more to live up to its responsibilities in the region.
Greens human rights spokeswoman Sarah Hanson-Young says Australia should do more to help Pacific islanders affected by climate change.
Climate change is predicted to bring increased numbers of environmental/climate change refugees requesting countries such as Australia open its borders.
However, according to the United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees from 1951, a refugee is a person who has a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion. Thus, fleeing from climate change, famine, food shortages, over-population impacts does not make them "refugees" in the existing definition.
Australia of 22.2 million, with our present population tipping the limits of our carrying capacity due to our burgeoning cities, limited quality soils and water supplies, can not solve problems resulting from overpopulation, over-consumption of environmental resources, ethnic fighting and poverty that has escalated in the most populated but fertile regions on earth.
Rather than "border control" and political hysteria, we need to address the source of the flow. We need to assist peoples over life-threatening hurdles and help them live sustainably, curb corruption, and address runaway population growth through family planning.
Just how many "climate" refugees will be in actual fact be fleeing from famine and extreme environmental events all exacerbated by overpopulation?
Australia – already the driest inhabited continent on Earth – is particularly vulnerable to climate change. Maybe we Australians will need to be the "climate" refugees?
The Voluntary Human extinction movement..
Has anyone ever come across this website : www.vhemt.org...Its the website of the voluntary human extinction movement.
Sounds like a great idea to me..It seems like it may be the only way to save the beautiful environment and animals of our earth..to cut population of the human virus down..
tasmania
good article , we must keep this island clean
Me too
It's really terrible to be subjected to the sight of death and destruction of native animals on Australian roads . Tasmania does seem to be particularly bad. Once on a drive from Hobart to Port Arthur I saw a dead native animal every kilometer or so. One of the locals in response to my dismay said it was actually a "good sign" because it showed how healthy the environment was- being able to support all those animals ! ( I should have been glad, not sad.) Just a few minutes ago in the middle of a suburban street I saw a squashed magpie where you really can't drive any faster than about 45kms per hour. How did the driver manage to kill a bird on this street unless it was done deliberately ? For years I have avoided driving at night in the country for the very reason that I do not want to hit an animal. If you drive fast at night eventually I think you will hit one. Twilight is also a bad time. Of course the underlying problem is the obvious-too many roads and too many people driving cars on them.
Green Brand Political Parties
Gee, John, I thought they were small 'g' for green.
In fact I suspect that they are only B for Brand-name Green.
I think they are misleading, basically.
They need a new name, maybe something like, Labor Rear-guard, or Friends of the Socialist Alliance.
What we need is a Real Green Party. In the mean time I'll take the Animal Rights Party, the Radical Independents and Sustainable Population Party of Australia.
There are some 'Greens' politicians that I will vote for, but the parties as a whole are a big disappointment, a kind of institutionalised political road-block - a bit like the ACF and Environment Victoria. While we have these 'official' greens, the real on the ground greens, the people who are responding democratically, cannot get heard.
I hate to see how the Greens and the S.A. pick off real activists, flatter them into thinking they will take them somewhere, then lead them down the garden path to political dead ends - corporate sponsored all the way.
The Greens ambivalent on population
The Greens have no policy on population. Their immigration policy is about accepting asylum seekers, but nothing on economic immigration or a population target.
An email to Hanson Young got no reply!
The public are fed crumbs, or broad statements or "promises", and are distracted by personalities, with no solid policies or the "big picture" issues that are so impertinent for our nation, and planet.
The media tabloids exploit the weaknesses of our lack of real vision for Australia and our sovereignty.
Slaughter of dogongs and turtles continues
Dugongs are listed under wildlife regulations as being 'vulnerable to extinction'.
Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders have the right to kill limited numbers of turtles and dugongs with a permit for ceremonial purposes, in recognition of a 40,000-year-old custom. Under the Native Title Act they can make limited kills for 'the purpose of satisfying their personal, domestic or non-commercial communal needs. However, this Act takes no consideration for the welfare of turtles and dogongs, protecting from cruelty or their survival as a species.
Forty thousand years ago they didn't have aluminium boats and high-powered motors, and they didn't sell the meat on the black market! Dugongs and turtles are being slaughtered by non-traditional methods for commercial gain. This is not subsistence killing or traditional!
Because of the lack of forward motion, turtles are still having the flippers cut off while they writhe in agony. Dugongs are being carved up daily and nobody knows how many are left.
Some tribal aborigines are concerned about non-tradition killings and leaving meat to rot, and their extinction. It is estimated that up to 1600 dugongs and 20 000 salt and freshwater turtles are taken annually in Australia. In Tasmania, 200 000 mutton birds are caught annually.
The dugong is listed as vulnerable to extinction at a global scale by The World Conservation Union .
Environment Minister Peter Garrett has been made aware of the scandal. And Shadow Minister Greg Hunt has been briefed, but the atrocities continue. Senator Bob Brown is also ignoring this issue.
PLEASE SIGN ANIMALS AUSTRALIA PETITION
Animals Australia petition
Dugong and Turtles web page
im spanish and have reached
im spanish and have reached this article looking for more info on nuclear proliferation caused by overpopulation
europe is becoming a nightmare because overpopulation because of
catholics-jewish-muslims ignorant politicians which are the mayority here
catholic-orthodox churches
inmigration specially from muslim countries
this is the source of every single global problem
raw nature surface dissapearing, pollution, hunger, climate change
but they really think they can ask you to use less water and energy to fix it
they dont understand the rate human population grows makes impossible to keep up that way
and they also dont understand that ppl like me will never save water, energy, or change a car for a bike, because thats the worst thing i can do for this planet and because we have natural rights since earth creation to use resources in any ammount we want
as long as we accept that we cannot have childs as we want
i dont have childs hence im not saving anything, money is the limit, i use as much water as i can
thats the only way to stop them
in fact ppl from radical catholic sides like opus day are forcing agresively others to save resources
they are not getting that out from me no way
so dont stay at your sofa create basis to figh in parliaments and make humans understand that having childs is not free for anyone
It's a hot potato
Joe's website link doesn't seem to be working. I was wondering what his position is on population and immigration. I thought most anarchists were opposed to any sort of border control such as immigration/population policy?
Candidate's position on population growth from immigration is central to how I will be casting my vote at this election. I like the sound of this independent group and their preference flows is pretty close to my politics so that will save me numbering 1-60.
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/gtv.htm#gtv_vic
I identify with everything these candidates stand for but the population issue is where I want send a clear message to whoever has power.
Reading through most of the party's and candidate's policies it was obvious that many were obfuscating and avoiding taking a clear stance on this issue. For a key issue they are decidedly shy.
Tasmania's violent and destructive legacy continues
Tasmania's history is a legacy of brutality and genocide to humans and animals. There is also the history of environmental devastation and controversy. This continues today, with the Tasmanian government's bending to the more violent and destructive forces of the shooters' lobby!
Where is the drive for the activities which regulate a wide range of activities that have potential impacts on Tasmania’s wildlife? It these activities have the potential to impact on Tasmania's wildlife, then the “activities” should be illegal!
If the purpose of the Wildlife Regulations 1999 is to "protect and manage Tasmania’s fauna", then the “ appropriate related activities and industries” should not go ahead and be prohibited.
Wildlife and industries that impact on them are contradictory, and means that money would be made on inflicting pain, misery and death to native animals! This is not in the interests of wildlife, and not in the interests of a clean, natural, wildlife and environmentally “friendly” Tasmania.
The recreational and commercial “uses” of wildlife, including “wildlife exhibitions” and deer farming are morally and ethically wrong!
Our indigenous animals are not and should not be considered as resources for profits from being exploited. The only income should be from tourism and wildlife observations, and photography. There is no place for violence against them and any idea that this should go ahead is abhorrent and totally wrong and unethical!
Indigenous Australians historically hunted and killed wildlife, but their needs were on a subsistence level, to live in harmony with their surroundings. This justification does not apply today. An “industry” of killing did not exist and should not be introduced.
There should be no hunting or weapons in Tasmania! There should be fines for bringing firearms, spears, crossbows or any weapon into Tasmania's bushland. Our wildlife are unique, and should not be targets for shooting at!
As for deer hunting, they are not indigenous animals and do not belong in Tasmania. The idea of raising them, and shooting at them for a fee, is also abhorrent and cruel. Feral deer can cause damage to the environment. Deer can trample plants, graze on them, and ring-bark young trees. They can also foul water supplies, cause soil erosion, transmit diseases and spread weeds. There are already enough exotic species in Australia.
A person must not buy, sell or posses restricted wildlife or wildlife products in Tasmania, and this should include fur, skins or body parts.
Our evolutionary destiny?
Maybe the gay marriage is a symptom of an evolutionary course to limit population growth and land inheritance, naturally. There have always been people oriented to the same sex, but their recognition has become more universally recognised. There should be some sort of recognition of life partnerships and inheritance. However, once you give the right to "Marriage" then gays could claim the "right" to IVF to have children!
Overpopulation is causing a new generation of dis-inherited people, without opportunities to own land or a property. Children will be born without hope of land ownership and a physical connection to our nation. Family traditions are expectations are being eroded, and society is evolving accordingly?
Many different kinds of marriage
In my view marriage is all about inheritance. All kinds of marriage rules have existed in different societies and in the same societies at different times. There have been societies where brothers married into families of sisters, societies where sisters married brothers, other societies where marriage was avoided to the 8th degree of relatedness.
It was all about rates of multiplication and how much land/living there was to go around.
If homosexual marriage is in vogue I would take it as a sign of diminished carrying capacity (hard times) favourising marriages that do not produce children. That would be just one reason.
A more individual reason would be where homosexuals of either sex live together, take care of each other, and share property and wish to safeguard the use of that property for the future. Imagine if you were a woman who lived with another woman and had looked after her for the last ten years of her life prior to her death. She dies, and her house and car and savings all go by legal default to her brother or her parents. Unless you are married, you do not stand a chance of getting what she would have wanted you to have had.
Political parties are not really interested in 'morality' or 'sexuality' here; they are interested in property.
Sheila Newman, population sociologist
home page
Copyright to the author. Please contact sheila [AT] candobetter org or the editor if you wish to make substantial reproduction or republish.
Why should gays imitate Marriage?
Wonderful policies from Jenny Warfe, Joe Toscano and Andrew Sadauskas based on the interests of Australians. However, why add the liberal-progressive: "Same sex marriage to be recognised in Federal law"?
Marriage is an ancient and well recognised institution that has been the basis of the traditional family for millennium. Why change something so basic to our society? Not everything is about total "equality"! Once we have a completely level society and "rights" for all, we end up without values.
Gay people should be recognised as being equal citizens without discrimination. However, we should accept the Marriage is something that is not their destiny. There should be recognition of partnerships, but as a civil status, not "marriage".
No one has the right to marry whoever they want. Everyone is equally barred from marrying another person who is under a certain age, or too closely related, or of the same gender, or already married to another. Sound reasons underlie all these requirements, which apply equally to everyone, male and female.
Traditional marriage is based on the words "To have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others, to love and to cherish, till death do us part."
Gay partnerships do not usually last as long as marriages with provision for outside relationships.
Those who are determined to destroy the traditional family structure have argued out any number of reasons why the minority number of homosexuals (being anywhere from 3 percent to 10 percent of the population), should be allowed to enter into the Holy state of matrimony. It is not "discrimination" but about protecting traditional family values, the "glue" of a cohesive society.
The “gay marriage” lobby is well financed, influential and determined, just as were those who succeeded in obtaining abortion on demand as a fait accompli. Since reproduction requires a male and a female, society will always depend upon heterosexual marriage to provide future generations.
Immigration quota needs to factor in the subsequent birth trend
Immigration quotas needs to factor in the subsequent birth trend.
Where are Immigration's statistics to enable transparent assessment?
For instance, if on average, immigrants are having one baby per immigrant, then the immigration quota should factor this in to the annual quota. On this basis the number of immigrants should be halved.
And what is the total public cost of immigrants having babies?
As for immigrants convicted of serious crimes, they must be automatically deported to their country of origin. They have grossly breached their residency conditions.
Why should a country host foreign criminals at the public expense when gaols are already over capacity?
Massedon Ranges: Important Bushfire Meeting tonight (Mon)
Hello everyone,
We have just updated MRRA’s website (www.mrra.asn.au)
We have an urgent message to everyone in the Macedon Ranges district (and beyond).
One of the State government’s ‘consultation’ meetings will take place at the Woodend Community Centre, cnr of Forest and High Streets, Woodend TONIGHT Monday August 9th, 6.30pm – 8.30pm. Sorry it’s short notice but there isn’t much notice being given of these meetings, full stop. The meeting will address the 2009 Victorian Bushfire Royal Commission’s recommendations. We have an article on the website with the recommendations and the State government’s and Opposition’s responses to them. You should be able to download them from there, but we have also provided links to the Royal Commission’s website as well. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO PASS THIS MESSAGE ON TO ANY YOU THINK WOULD BE INTERESTED.
We have also posted all lower house (House of Representatives) and upper house (Senate) candidates for residents in the Macedon Ranges Shire for the upcoming Federal election. Candidates contact points are included, as per the Australian Election Commission’s website.
We also have contact points for those of you who may wish to join CAWFAG – the Cobaw and Wombat Forest Action Group, who are opposed to renewed logging in those forests.
An updated list of the June 2010 – June 2011 council meeting dates has also been posted.
A new bunch of Landcare events is now available as well.
Kind regards,
Christine.
One baby in four born to migrants: Number of foreign-born mother
It has been found that in the UK 24.7 per cent of children born last year have mothers who were born abroad – and that their numbers have doubled since the late 1990s.
The figures produced fresh warnings to ministers that immigration rates must be brought down to avoid the growing threat of overpopulation in Britain.
The rising proportion of children of migrant mothers is a result both of high levels of immigration and higher birthrates among newly-arrived families.
It is predicted that the UK population will hit the sensitive 70million mark in 2029.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1296638/Migrants-responsible-bir...
The birthrate has been pushed up fast in recent years by immigration. Last year nearly a quarter of all babies in England in Wales were born to mothers who were themselves born abroad.
The highest fertility rate is among women born in Pakistan and Bangladesh, who can expect to have 4.7 and 3.9 children respectively.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1185465/Baby-boom-Nearly-quarter...
Critics said the figures pointed to future problems for 'social cohesion'.
Many of the children now being born will be brought up in a different culture to that of the majority population.
Immigration has raised the birth rate so fast that some maternity units have closed, so that midwives could be moved to areas of urgent need. Other maternity units have turned expectant mothers away because they could not cope with unprecedented increases in the local birth rate.
In central London, where six out of every 10 babies born has a foreign-born mother, senior consultants and health managers blame the lack of resources to deal with the pressures of migration for unacceptably poor standards.
Also a worry: The majority of Islamist terrorists in the UK are British-born, under the age of 30, educated and likely to be employed, according to a statistical analysis of all terror plots uncovered over the past ten years.
The Centre for Social Cohesion has spent two years compiling a database of individuals convicted of Islamist-inspired terrorism offences over the past decade.
Almost half (48 per cent) of those convicted lived in the London area. Birmingham and West Yorkshire have the second- and third-highest numbers of convictions.
More than two thirds (69 per cent) of those convicted were born in the UK and held British passports.
Pathetic Indeed
Bandicoot is right on the money.
Re editorial Comment & Apparent Censorship
Apparently my post above went over the head of the editor
Menkit Prince is quite obviously a highly intelligent highly articulate individual. I don’t agree with all her views or ideals but as my poem says I acknowledge her passion and commitment to a worthy cause, that is the protection of wildlife.
Consistent with previous posts my comments above are to express my disdain for the deliberate misrepresentation of facts (regardless of the worthiness of cause) in part because when such untruths are exposed the reflection falls not only upon the individual making the comments or the claims, but also any organisation or affiliates of the person thus bringing the cause and potentially a number of people, many undoubtedly honest and well meaning into disrepute.
There is no shame in making mistakes, nor to acknowledge doing so, but to continue to knowingly make misrepresentations of fact is another matter.
I come to Candobetter.org because I support the preservation of our environment and other issues discussed here hold considerable interest. I continue to read Menkit Prince’s posts because she like many others does have valid points to make (though not necessarily every point). It is obvious that Menkit seeks a high profile and equally so (to me at least) that she does not respond well to criticism.
In summary at http://candobetter.org/node/1695#comment-4047 I challenged a claim that ‘Kangaroos do not compete with livestock for food’, in subsequent comment on that page Menkit challenged my challenge suggesting that
www.publish.csiro.au/paper/WR9740027.htm
supported the original claim, though she later acknowledged that the link she cited did not support the absolute nature of the claim I originally disputed. In her comment of January 29th 2010 Menkit also accused me of supporting and being employed by the Kangaroo Industry (all inherently false) and attacked my use of a screen name. This is the
”Character assassination, personal attacks, wild fanciful assumptions” that I refer to in my comment above. In April 2010 some two months later Menkit despite prior acknowledgment by her of facts to the contrary, is still promoting the same link to CSIRO research as “…proving that kangaroos do not compete with sheep” despite clear knowledge to the contrary and acknowledgment by her that it does no such thing.
My message in all of this is that I would like to see the fight to save our wildlife, environment and biodiversity carried out in an honest, factual and forthright manner. Leave the lies deceit and half truths to the people who threaten our planet and expose them at every opportunity thus destroying their credibility. When even a few bow down to this level it tarnishes many and only sets the cause back further.
I stand by my previous comment above and consider I have provided adequate links for interested parties to follow, to understand where I am coming from.
To the Cando editor who censored the last line of my poem
I would appreciate that you “activate” the links in my posts as seems your usual standard practice elsewhere.
On the censorship issue the only word in the last line (or the entire poem) that could be considered even moderately offensive was the very last word, thus I respectfully suggest that you review your decision and censor ( if still deemed appropriate post review) the word only and not the entire line.
The word apparently deemed offensive by the editor was an olde English derivative of a word in common modern everyday usage chosen to rhyme with “alright”. To substitute the word with faeces or faecel matter simply did not do justice to the poem.
I consider neither the word chosen nor its modern equivalent to be any more or less or offensive than the word “bloody” which appears in these pages frequently. I even saw quite surprisingly, the F word displayed on this site in a recent comment (not mine). Perhaps the instance of the F word I refer to slipped passed the keeper. In relation to my comment above I think “The Keeper” has acted a tad too precious or perhaps even biased or niave in censoring my comment to such extent, the move is certainly inconsistent and far from even handed.
I might troll through the pages of this site in search for “offensive’ words to prove my point but I consider my time and space on these pages could be put to far better use.
Population debate is pathetic: Ferguson
Renowned economic commentator Niall Ferguson says that Australia's population should be allowed to grow much bigger so we have enough labour to capitalise on China's demand for commodities.
Population debate "pathetic"
Professor Ferguson believes the debate about curbing population growth is "pathetic"!
He sees China as the next super-power, and will overtake the US, a nation drowning in debt.
China has insatiable appetite for commodities. Our population is "slightly less than the combined population of Beijing and Shanghai" - far too small!
The new world order is here, and it speaks Mandarin! English is of the old order. It is not clear why we need to increase our population to provide commodities for the growing super-power! Resource mining and agriculture do not require large populations.
Ferguson says that Australia will be at the "mercy of the rising Chinese economy", but India would ultimately become "the natural balancing power in Asia". This threat could be a self-fulfilling prophesy unless we take care and responsibility, and pride, in Australia's unique history, natural heritage, environment and protect our sovereignty.
We will never have the economic power of India or China through population growth. With their massive populations, the rivets would pop out of the seams of our ecological systems that support our existence in Australia. We would be inviting environmental and social catastrophe, dependant on aid, and be truly "pathetic"! We would thus be vulnerable to military threats.
We simply do not have the fertile soils, the waterways, or the rainfall of these naturally abundant but overpopulated nations.
With China being allowed to buy Australian farms, land and resources, we could easily become overshadowed by their mighty and undemocratic powers. We are not a province of China and this is not what the public of Australia want.
The Economy is a tool to allow us to live decently and have a livelihood. Allowing its growth to become and end in itself is misanthropic and would bring disaster.
bank balance, not ecological balance
I guess Arthur Ilias was talking about a bank balance.
Certainly not any kind of balance of species.
I find it amazing and frightening that so many business people and politicians simply have not the faintest idea of biological ecology and appear to experience no sense of wonder at anything except money.
Reform Information
Some interesting info at
australianconservative.com/2010/04/let-us-hear-from-the-defenders-of-federalism/
which shows results of surveys undertaken by the Australian newspaper in 2008 / 2010
Shows a clear trend toward a desire to reform.
Some interesting stats.
Immigration - Social Harm
I notice that you used a photo of 1930s Dole Queue because today the unemployed and casually employed don't congregate to look for work any more, they wait at home by their mobile phone for a call out. These casual employees are largely invisible to society, although they are found in every work situation. Mt Thorley coal mine in the Hunter Valley employs casuals, shop assistants are usually casual. Casual workers are at least 10% of all teachers in Victorian classrooms on any day but they are invisible because they dress the same as permanents and perform the same work as permanents.
Need for Constitutional Change
I support the concept of a two tier system, doubtless there are various models that might be proposed toward that end. In addition to a two tier system I would like to see a regular system of plebiscite introduced to keep our Governments in touch with the wishes of the people, a true democracy.
Currently we go to the polls every three years and vote for the house of reps according to what appears to us to be the foremost issue from a range of issues at the given time.
I would like to see Questions put to the people on major issues at EVERY election so that we not only choose our government but provide a clear indication of the direction we want our country to go and the way the government should perform
For example on the issue of population growth both our major parties are currently pro growth it does not matter who gets into power but what do the grass root citizens really want?
I believe our grass root patriotic citizens desire and deserve a far greater slice of democratic, transparency and accountability in our governance.
Brown Mountain Judgment next Weds 11 August Supreme Court
Just in Brown Mountain Judgement next Weds 11 August Supreme Court - Action and Time to be announced. Cnr Lonsdale and Williams Streets.
Two tier? Where to from here?
Does anyone have insight into the views and policies of the various parties and both the party aligned and independent candidates on this subject.
From time to time one hears whispers, for example the other day I learned that Senator Nick Minchin holds federalist ideals. I supported Howard’s attempts to assume management of the Murray Darling Basin and K Rudd’s desire to assume Federal governance of the Nation’s health system as steps in the right direction.
With an election looming it would be nice to know the position of our various pollies on this subject particularly in the Senate.
As John Marlowe says the two major parties are more concerned with seeking re election than necessarily providing the best direction for the country.
I never vote above the line in the Senate and I have had a gutful of waste, duplication and eternal bitching. I would consider designing my senate vote in the forthcoming election on a preferential system designed on this issue regardless of party persuasion but the research to determine the leanings of the individual candidates is a massive task.
Two tier? Where to from here?
Does anyone have insight into the views and policies of the various parties and both the party aligned and independent candidates on this subject.
From time to time one hears whispers, for example the other day I learned that Senator Nick Minchin holds federalist ideals. I supported Howard's attempts to assume management of the Murray Darling Basin and K Rudd’s desire to assume Federal governance of the nation's health system as steps in the right direction.
With an election looming it would be nice to know the position of our various pollies on this subject particularly in the Senate.
As John Marlowe says the two major parties are more concerned with seeking re election than necessarily providing the best direction for the country.
I never vote above the line in the Senate and I have had a gutful of waste, duplication and eternal bitching. I would consider designing my senate vote in the forthcoming election on a preferential system designed on this issue regardless of party persuasion but the research to determine the leanings of the individual candidates is a massive task.
Toxic development on historic and sensitive bushland
The ADI Site at St Marys is a 1500 hectare bushland oasis within western Sydney's suburbia. For 60 years it has been protected by a high security fence. The site's clay and alluvial soils support plants and woodland are very different from Sydney's better known sandstone bushland. There are remains of buildings that used to stand on the old munitions site.
When the Australian Heritage Commission, in 1999, listed over 800ha of the site on the Register of the National Estate, it pointed to its Aboriginal archaeological and social significance, its rare, endangered or uncommon flora and fauna and the presence of the rare Cumberland Plain Woodland. The site shelters the last free-roaming mobs of emus and eastern grey kangaroos in the Sydney basin.
However the Government has plans to place multi-unit housing on the site!
Construction work is due to start on the new suburb of Jordan Springs next month. The development would see hundreds of hectares of the critically endangered Cumberland Plain Woodland bulldozed.
Jordan Springs project director Arthur Ilias told the Press the issues raised by Geoff Brown had already been adequately addressed.
“Delfin Lend Lease has worked with federal, state and local governments, along with other local stakeholders, for more than a decade to achieve a balanced outcome for the Jordan Springs project,” he said.
The "balanced outcome" will be achieved with bulldozers!
If such a sensitive woodland habitat, "green lungs" and archaeologically significant site cannot be protected form the iron grip of developers and investors, it says little of the integrity of our Federal Environment leader, Peter Garrett, and the interests of the Council in profits over patriotism and public interests.
Australia's "green" fertile remnant bushland areas will concreted over and only a shell left of our biodiversity, our arable land, our wildlife and our natural heritage - destroyed by greed and wanton destruction.
Humans are becoming a plague species, worshipping the god of "economic growth"!
Biodiversity, species extinction : Tweed Shire
There is a form of insanity that people reach when trying to protect their "own" and enforce their own "ways", with extreme force.
It has been documented for thousands of years. It is called war.
The following links (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war) ;
(www.brainyquote.com/words/wa/war238447.html ), will show you some historical meanings and etymological background to the word WAR.
War and insanity go hand in hand. What is happening here, in the Tweed Shire is,
in these terms of reference - WAR. WAR on biodiversity. It is shocking, documented by historical facts, scientific facts and photographic evidence.
War severely impacts on the innocent, women and children, male youths,
the un-armed and unprotected environment and wildlife. It leaves a deadly legacy of destruction and toxic outcomes.
This behaviour is called "insane". Unless there is someone out there who believes that it is sane to kill and destroy.(???)
What is the DEFENCE against war-mongering insane "generals" and "leaders" of environmental destruction (via habitat destruction, species extinction and ongoing "slight of hand" of scientific fact)?
Well, since people generally fail to learn from historical insights, the defence appears to be... more WAR.
New paradigms are now emerging. New ways of viewing our world. the old ways do not serve us, and the new ways are hardly any better.
Love, tolerance and understanding, compassion, remorse, forgiveness - ancient concepts, powerful tools in avoidance of war.
The planet is in crisis, and biodiversity is disappearing at an unprecedented rate due to the types of illogical reasonings that are employed by our industry, political and corporate leaders. This IS insanity, this war directed against biodiversity.
You, dear Menkit Prince, are very sane by comparison. Alison Polistchuk
Human groups are far more complex than livestock
Utopian and business ideals are imposed on populations without considering the nature and willingness of the human species, and by considering them a simply a resource, like livestock, to manipulate, impose upon, and expect them to comply.
We have business pro-growth groups, with bipartisan support from political parties, who want continual population growth, without considering our fragile and limited environment, without considering that the great majority do not want higher density living and larger cities, and without considering the social and financial impacts.
There are mega cities in the world, with sprawling tentacles across their landscape, however, those that are successful have highly monolithic cultures and homogeneous populations. Cities such as Hong Kong, Singapore and in Japan are monocultures.
Our leaders, supported by these pro-growth businesses, want high density populations as well as multi-culturalism.
The ideals imposed on populations by the UN (non discrimination and human rights) look Utopian, but they hide wider agendas and ignore the limitations and the psychology of humans groups.
We read of increasing violence and crimes in our cities, and "racist" attacks. The stresses of coping with a divided society, and ramped population growth, show that our society is stressed to the core.
Human groups are far more complex, and have many more needs and dimensions than the simple requirements of livestock that can simply added to paddocks. However, overstocking paddocks will have negative impacts too, and negative returns.
I am not an international citizen. I am Australian
Quite right James. "Mass immigration is a denial of the rights of the people in the existing community regardless of their racial origin and regardless of the racial origin of the immigrants."
In response to Milly, yes, the UNHCR aims to promote "human rights" but does a crap job. It has a despicable record of failure (Rwanda in 1994), slow response (Bosnia 1992 to 1995, North Pakistan right now!), turning a blind eye (Burma, North Korea, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Kyrgyzstan) and complicity in persecution (Palestine, Sri Lanka). [Read More]
Utopian ideals like "the belief that the world is now ready to accept a "global civic ethic" based on "a set of core values that can unite people of all cultural, political, religious, or philosophical backgrounds" is also crap.
Many cultures are morally mutually exclusive. Female cultural equality in Australia is incompatible with female oppression and persecution in Saudi Arabia and Sudan for instance. Unrestricted mingling is a consequence of socio-political problem avoidance. Civil unrest in a country is allowed to remain unresolved and to fester and build until civil war breaks out, then the populous flees to another country. The ruling powers argue for international intervention to stay out for reasons of it being a matter of its 'internal affairs'. Yet refugees then become external affairs. The socio-political problem is geographically shifted instead of being contained within the country.
I am not an international citizen. I am Australian. When I work hard, build a house and a comfortable lifestyle, it is not up for grabs by others. Those lucky to have a choice certainly should help others that don't have choices, but not give up their homes in the process.
Re Two Tier Government I really thought……
Thanks for your support R.Raveindran,Sydney
I really thought this article may have attracted more comment and debate than it has since it was posted.
Perhaps people are happy with the current system
Maybe apathy is deeply entrenched
Come on folks let us know what you think.
Lamentation from the Petulant Prince
Menkit says above
“If I gave inaccurate information, why did you not inform me of this at the time? I would certainly like to know if anything I say is inaccurate.”
I really do admire
Those that do aspire
To lend passion to a cause they do believe,
It really is a shame
When honesty turns lame
When the passion for the cause inspires notions to deceive.
A cause is often lost
When, WIN AT ANY COST
Becomes the mantra of the masses in the fray
Cred is often ruined
For the MANY who are strewn
Lined up beside the loudmouth clown who care not what she say.
Your penchant for the fiction
Is a truly sad affliction
Though your tapping at the keyboard seems alright
You really could do better
Checking facts right to the letter
Offensive wording removed. - admin, 7 Aug 2010
Q. What does Menkit do when she has been told that her claims are inaccurate?
See http://candobetter.org/node/1695#comment-4047 28-01-2010
A.
Step 1
Character assassination, personal attacks, wild fanciful assumptions
See http://candobetter.org/node/1695#comment-4054
Step 2
Keep right on spreading the “inaccurate” information under the guise of factual evidence 03-04-2010
See http://candobetter.org/node/1924#comment-4473 where Menkit says
“More facts here this time from the CSIRO proving that kangaroos do not compete with sheep:” www.publish.csiro.au/paper/WR9740027.htm
Where have we heard that before?
Perhaps the Tweed Mayor has a point.
Editorial comment: you haven't convinced me that Menkit was wrong from what you have written in this post. I find your accusations against Menkit contrary to my own knowledge of her. Perhaps you need to at least include, with the links, brief excepts of what you are complaining of (although we also discourage full repetition of all comments.)
Of course none of the
Of course none of the comments to this rag have been published..There is no money or celebrity involved,who cares??...
This imbecile driving the car that hit this Kangaroo was probably speeding in the first place and the idiot blames the kangaroo..Oh there is a plague of kangaroos here, something has to be done. I hear this Moronic sentence time and time again from these stupid brainwashed Sheep..Most Australians I speak to are under the impression that Kangaroos in Australia are in plague proportions..When I ask them how they know that, the answer is Oh thats what the government told us..Wake up you Morons..Do you really believe one single word our lovely caring government tells us...?
How aften on the news or morning Moron vision do you ever here any news or stories about our lovely native wildlife here in Australia,hardly ever..Its all celebrity, money and mindless drivel..It seems to me the majority of the Aussie Battlers are only interested in money,how much their house is worth, Footy, alcohol, and whats in it for ME....Most of them couldnt care less about are native wildlife that is rapidly vanishing..Oh but a dog or a cat arent they lovely??...
Of course none of the
Of course none of the comments to this rag have been published..There is no money or celebrity involved,who cares??...
This imbecile driving the car that hit this Kangaroo was probably speeding in the first place and the idiot blames the kangaroo..Oh there is a plague of kangaroos here, something has to be done. I hear this Moronic sentence time and time again from these stupid brainwashed Sheep..Most Australians I speak to are under the impression that Kangaroos in Australia are in plague proportions..When I ask them how they know that, the answer is Oh thats what the government told us..Wake up you Morons..Do you really believe one single word our lovely caring government tells us...?
How aften on the news or morning Moron vision do you ever here any news or stories about our lovely native wildlife here in Australia,hardly ever..Its all celebrity, money and mindless drivel..It seems to me the majority of the Aussie Battlers are only interested in money,how much their house is worth, Footy, alcohol, and whats in it for ME....Most of them couldnt care less about are native wildlife that is rapidly vanishing..Oh but a dog or a cat arent they lovely??...
Mass immigration denies rights of people in receiving country
Mass immigration is a denial of the rights of the people in the existing community regardless of their racial origin and regardless of the racial origin of the immigrants.
At other times in history, people other than Europeans have similarly sufferred as a result of mass immigration. This fact doesn't justify the way predominantly European inhabitants of countries like Australia are now being treated little better than people in other societies that suffered mass immigration in previous centuries as part of the process of colonisation.
Birch, his foresight and his recognition of animals
Charles Birch was an amazing and enlightened thinker of his time. He forcasted the disasters of climate change, carbon emissions, overpopulation and soil degradation.
He also recognised the intrinsic value of animals.
He said: "you’ve got to look at animals as having not only an instrumental value in the world – a usefulness to human beings or to other animals – but also an intrinsic value in themselves. What on earth would give intrinsic value, a value quite independent of any usefulness to other creatures? The answer I have come to is that only feeling gives intrinsic value. In other words, you recognise some degree of feeling or of mentality, if you like, which is very high in human beings and reaches a level of consciousness, but fades off as you go down the evolutionary scheme of things. And yet I would say it is still there".
There are some things that evolution and survival of the fittest that just can't be explained, like intrinsic values, empathy and bonding.
Julia Gillard the atheist
Julia Gillard's poor rating in the polls means that she cannot ignore the Christian vote. Despite being an "atheist", this should not be an impediment to good negotiation skills and addressing some support for family values.
Kevin Rudd professed to be a Christian but he totally failed to uphold Christian values and show integrity. By boosting our immigration rate, many Australian people are now dispossessed and displaced from home ownership. The housing crisis is the making of Kevin Rudd in his selfish whim for a "big Australia". Homelessness is on the rise and mortgage stress means having a family is prohibitive. Where are his Christian values, his family values? They are contrary to any meaning of compassion and social justice.
Promises were broken and ignored, and as for our planet, Creation, he was quite happy to see the destructive forces of climate change quietly be deliberately overlooked with his impotent ETS scheme.
Julia Gillard has professed to being an atheist, but at least she isn't hiding behind hypocrisy. Tony Abbott's faith is little better, and both major parties are obsessed by growth at all costs, even if it means eroding our lifestyles and swelling our cities with further population growth - to please the business elite!
two-tier government
I fully support the above cause.
Australia needs a two-tier government rather than a 3-tier government.
That would mean substantial cost savings and benefit regional centres.
best regards..R.Raveindran,Sydney
UN aim to promote "human rights", immigration and one government
The foundation for global governance is the belief that the world is now ready to accept a "global civic ethic" based on "a set of core values that can unite people of all cultural, political, religious, or philosophical backgrounds."
The sole reason to have mass immigration is to have other nations mingled in with white people is to cause disunity.
Immigration is forced upon Australia by the United Nations.
The UN is sowing the seeds into all the white nations to bring in the one world government. This will restrict the white people from rising up as there cannot be unity within the different nations populating Australia.
Iron and clay cannot mix. Multiculturalism is about all the foreigners hold fast to their language and also refusing to learn English. Democracy will be limited as the larger number of foreigners who will have the greater say.
It's all about control and the white nations will inevitability lose it. America is militarizing the police for what is coming. Australia is trying but don't have the resources,
We have to be politically correct don't we. We have already been assaulted by many population myths, to manipulate us into silence. Where does patriotism end and tolerance to invasion by stealth begin?
The subtle language in many UN documents hides the assault on national sovereignty. While sounding affirmative, it undermines any "sovereign" action that might oppose UN policies. But Article 29 states that "these rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations." In other words, its promise of "human rights" does not apply to those who would criticize the UN or its policies. Nor does it apply to Christians who cling to God's "offensive" truths -- or refuse to follow UNESCO.
The migration issue shifts national sovereignty onto the same slippery ground.
Clearly, the New World Order is a business and economic order. But it is a business order that fleeced the American people in the ponzi loan scheme. On the surface, the NWO looks benign, just bringing countries together in free trade. However, one world government is not benign, and has proven itself to be far from benign. After all, the ponzi housing scheme and the subsequent credit crisis caused a huge transfer of wealth to be shifted from the middle classes to the world's wealthiest people.
Kangaroos on collision course in Morisset peninsula
EMMA Vrshkovski, 22, was "was driving to work and this big kangaroo just leaped out of nowhere. Other drivers at the scene said I didn't have a hope of avoiding it"!
She was uninjured but will have to pay for $1000 in excess insurance. No mention of the fate of the real victim, the kangaroo!
Ms Vrshkovski and her family are calling for an inquiry into escalating kangaroo numbers which they say are roaming the Morisset peninsula's urban streets.
According to her mother, "Kangaroo numbers in the hospital grounds are in plague proportions and this is where they are coming from. They aren't afraid of urban streets, any more."
This story shows just how little people know about Australia, and just how little we have adapted to living here within our environmental context. Australia is one of the most wealthiest nations with regards to biodiversity richness and the number of species that have evolved in our ancient land. Our country is natural kangaroo territory, and kangaroos are not "plagues" but indigenous animals with indigenous rights.
Before building roadways, there should be environmental impact plans and plans to accommodate wildlife - with overpasses, wildlife corridors and underpasses. It should also mean driving SLOWLY in habitat areas.
Kangaroos do not attack cars! Road kill and accidents are the result of speed and lack of planning, and ignorance!
Lakes Mail article
Despite a number of comments already posted, none have been published as yet!
Perth muslim woman pushing the boundaries of tolerance
A Perth Muslim woman wants a judge to decide whether she can wear a burka while giving evidence. Tasneem, who did not want her last name published, said she had worn the burka for about 20 years and it would be uncomfortable to take it off in front of men she did not know while in the witness box.
This absurd case confronts us today and is the result of non-conforming immigrants. Before coming to Australia, they should be willing to bend and accept Australian law and customs, and while we are a tolerant society, our tolerance should not be abused. We tolerate diversity and multiculturalism, but she is trying to push the boundaries even further.
Under sharia law, how would this woman fare? She would have few rights and draconian justice!
Women have fought hard for equality in the West, for the right to vote, to be educated, to wear comfortable clothing rather than tight girdles and long gowns, and to be equal in society. These cultures are backward and repressive, and confronting. People coming to live in Australia need to accept our laws and customs and adapt. They should adapt to Australia, not US to THEM!
She should be treated like anyone else and bare her face in court!
Australian tolerance is being abused by excessive immigration
Australians are a tolerant mix of people, perhaps no more so than indigenous Australians who have put up with wave after wave of immigrants.
The term 'racist' is an ugly slur readily being used by anyone who seeks to put down criticism for the negatives of successive government immigration policy.
To be racist is to be prejudiced against a specific racial group or multiple racial groups. Australia is such a mix of races that it would be illogical to use the term without attracting criticism of one's self.
But the main immigration problem in Australia is not about racism or specific racial groups. It is simple a local response to the sheer numbers of people arriving over a short period of time, to the point where the society, economy and environment are not coping and are where locals are witnessing serious negative impacts. It matters not from where they come, but their impact on local society.
It is also a problem of some immigrants rejecting Australian societal values and unjustly seeking to impose their own values on Australians. This is exacerbating the social tensions.
The two problems are collectively about injustice faced by local Australians.
Of course the local reactions vary from tolerance to intolerance and there are some racists out there like in every society, but they are in the minority.
However, the real problem being created by successive LibLab governments and their encouraged excessive waves of mass immigration, is that immigration is being imposed on local society at an unsustainable rate, and the vital importance of assimilation and society cohesion has been tragically abandonned by government. This has created local resentment and antagonism. It has also meant many immigrants are unjustly left to fend for themselves. It is regrettably fueling racism.
The perpetuating problem is shortsighted government economic-centric policy and abandonment of social responsibility.
Multiculturalism is a euphemism for governments saving money by abandoning new immigrants to fend for themselves. Naturally, anyone left to fend for themselves will turn to their own kind and become insular in their own ethic group.
Hence, government abandonment has created ethnic enclaves. Immigrants are not encouraged to assimilate as 'new Australians' into Australian society, but to perpetuate satellite enclaves of their old countries.
It takes generations to assimilate. Look at the Mediterranean immigrants post WWII! It took Australian mainstream up until the 1980s, some 30 odd years later the third generation of Mediterranean immigrants (mainly Greeks and Italians) to be embraced as an non-distinguishable integrated component of the mainstream Australian community. We went from the TV culture of 'Kingswood Country' in the 1970s to 'Acropolis Now' in the late 1980s.
Social change simple takes time. It is a human condition that cannot be forced and fast tracked.
(This comment has been republished as an article, due to the comment thread repeatedly wandering away from the core subject of 'Economic Mirgants').
Thanks Valerie. I too am
Thanks Valerie. I too am very concerned about roadkill and just today wrote to the biodiversity officer at the local council suggesting what council might do to alleviate roadkill and biodiversity loss.
1. It's not physically possible to put underpasses on existing roads but overpasses should be possible especially where there is a great deal of roadworks going on with bush on either side that wildlife would inhabit. Simple animal crossings could be constructed of roap configured as a ladder as possums, bandicoots and koalas would traverse that. This is something that would not cost very much money and could be implemented widely without too much disruption to traffic.
See *http://velocity.ansto.gov.au/velocity/ans0011/article_02.asp*
2. More road signs urging people to slow down at dawn and dusk in order to avoid hitting wildlife. As I mentioned, many people are unaware of the possible presence of joeys in marsupials' pouches and if they were better educated more people might stop to check. Could there be an ongoing education of the community via local papers?
3. Supplement wildlife carers for any costs incurred in rehabilitating injured animals (food, veterinary fees, medications, petrol, equipment). I realise this has never been done before but since many carers are on a pension they often sacrifice their own food requirements to look after the animals or buy a cheap type of food that is not good for the animal instead of buying the best food for them. Alternately, carers work full-time which limits their ability to care for wildlife. I have come across injured wildlife at midnight only to find that no carers wanted to help as they had to get up early to go to work.
4. Council could purchase a building to be used as a wildlife hospital and pay specialist wildlife vets and staff to work there 24/7. At present carers have to drive to Currumbin hospital over the boarder which is costing a lot in petrol and stressing out the injured animal unnecessarily. It appears most of the council funding is being used on bush regen and control of Indian Myna birds. Council is spending millions of dollars on other programs, why not wildlife? It is worth a lot to the shire due to our ecotourism industry which is growing, but not if we lose them all due to roadkill!
I hope they do more than they are at present as we have huge biodiversity loss in Tweed shire.
Invitation to Westerfield Protest Community Event - Saturday
Subject: Saturday afternoon event at Westerfield's
You are invited to an exciting community-building event at Westerfield's (MEL 103 C11), planned by some of the young people who have so impressed us with their passion to protect our environmental heritage. Please circulate this invitation to your networks. The weather forecast is good, and we're on rain or shine!
Saturday August 7th from 12.00pm.
Westerfield's Reserve: Campfire at the back fence. BYO chair and some food to share.
12.00pm Community Picnic: Bring food to share.
1.00pm Symphony with the wildflowers: A space to informally share songs, music, stories, poems and sentiments to honour Westerfield's, her custodians and the caring community
2.00pm From Despair to Empowerment: Creating a space to gather together in solidarity for the challenges ahead. Community sharing circle, campaign update, creative ideas building plus art space and Community Mural.
3.00pm Close with Healing Meditation
3:15pm Guided walk through the property
Gillian Collins
Pines Protectors
Frankston North
Victoria 3200
0414 309 960
Australia as a racist nation - another form of manipulation!
There are a lot of "racist" accusations going around, targeting Australians! Ironically, we are one of the most tolerant nations in the world. There are some bigots here, but when we are accused of racism, which "race" or ethnic group are they talking about? We are so multicultural that we almost have no real authentic identity any more.
Many people coming here point the finger, and inspect and criticize our attitudes and policies with a fine-tooth comb, but they should first look at where they come from themselves.
After years of multiculturalism, mass immigration and globalisation, people seem to think they have a right to come here and criticise our society and laws while in their own countries there are exclusion to other nations, ethnic wars, mono-cultures, dictatorships, theocracies, overpopulation and degrading conditions.
We need to appreciate our wide open spaces, our vast and empty (but mainly uninhabitable) lands, our many wonderful coastlines, our unique history and heritage, and Jewelled seas. How many people have actually considered our indigenous peoples and what they think of our neo-colonialism?
Why do people always assume that "vacant" land without housing estates and roads is wasted and should be filled with developments?
Clearly our government has touted Australia as a safe and egalitarian, tolerant society. The attacks on Indian students have embarrassed our governments and revealed the rising violence and crime in our cities.
That Australia is "racist" accusation is another population myth, or method of manipulating the public into silence regarding mass immigration and population growth.
Bushfire risks to continue
Bob Brown, a senator who leads the Australian Greens, said the bushfires showed what climate change could mean for Australia.
"Global warming is predicted to make this sort of event happen 25%, 50% more," he told Sky News. "It's a sobering reminder of the need for this nation and the whole world to act and put at a priority our need to tackle climate change."
This means examining planning and urban growth issues across the state. It also means taking urgent action on climate change, as scientists are warning that it will bring hotter and drier weather in south-eastern Australia, together with more extreme heatwaves and heightened fire danger.
Allowing urban sprawl closer to national parks, and more land clearing, is also Brumby's fault. The Australian National University's Professor David Lindenmayer says removing the tree canopy allows sunlight to dry the forest floor.
Professor Lindenmayer and his colleagues have found forests are more prone to fire if they have been logged. With ongoing logging in catchment areas, more people means more risky behaviours, and more potential pyromanics. Plantation timber forests and land clearing all add up to more bush fire risks.
You think 173 people burnt alive will change Brumby?
You think 173 people burnt alive will change Brumby?
Brumby has not committed to any of the Commission's recommendations.
Brumby set up the Commission only so he could be seen to be doing the right thing. Brumby has more important issues such as getting re-elected.
Even the scapegoats have got away with it - keeping their jobs and their pensions. Next fire, next tragedy!
Then there are those proposing to concrete the rest of Victoria. Talk about backward, head-in-the sand defeatists.
It is all about the government saving money and perpetuating the low-cost volunteer model - a model which insulates any government from criticism.
...how can anyone criticise volunteers and not attract instant moral put down - works every time! Government under-resourced volunteer model followed by a few quite seasons, and the hoi polloi will forgive and 'move forward'. The formula has worked for decades.
Next 173!
Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia
People smuggling is a LibLab distraction from economic migrants
Dear Joan,
My response to your first comment 'Immigration' [2nd August 2010] was not intended as a personal attack. If you took it as such I apologise to you. I see no need for personal agendas to distract from any issue. What does ego have to gain in any issue debate?
It is what you wrote that I criticised, particularly since it conveys a mainstream perspective which is misguided - that asylum seekers comprise anything more than a minuscule contribution to Australia's immigration largesse. Read my response again!
In your comment you highlighted both the tired over-hyped people smuggling issue and about Visa over-stayers. These issues are so unimportant as a proportion of the immigration numbers. They comprise less than 1% of the overall problem, so why waste time focusing on it and by distracting others from the real 99% problem of Australia's Economic Migrants?
Such sub-issue red herrings only play into the distractive political agenda of LibLabs and their selfish growthist agenda.
Check your facts and if you can't handle criticism of your argument, stick to the issue.
Public commentators (including us bloggers) must take criticism if they dish it. Criticism my argument all you want, but keep to the issue.
Immigration.
You write much better than you interpret meaning Mr Marlowe.
Your assumption that a contributor to this forum is not only ignorant, but a lemming who "needs" to follow your advice (with your footnoted explanation of lemming) is disrespectful.
I appreciate your views, mostly thinking along similar lines to yourself. Try to be courteous. There's no need to drive harmless people away from Mr Sinnamon's forum with unnecessary personal attack.
Thank you.
LibLabs sell Australian citizenship like they sell Aussie assets
Damn bloody right!
LibLabs sell Australian citizenship like they sell Aussie assets!
Look at foreign ownership of corporations, natural resources, property across Australia!
Citizenship in Australia and indeed any country is a privilege with moral and legal obligations accepted by foreigners into their new host country and its people.
But breach those obligations and foreigners must show cause to otherwise forgo their citizenship rights.
Yet LibLabs sell Australian citizenship like they sell Aussie assets.
Why are foreigners rejecting assimilation in Australia?
Why are foreigners allowed to perpetuate ghettos like the Jews do in St Ives, the Pacific Islanders do in Logan, the Lebanese do in Lakemba, the Indians do in Harris Park, the Vietnamese do in Springvale and Richmond?
Australia's national language is English, so why are these foreigners permitted non-English shop signage and to overwhelm areas with their high concentration of numbers?
Why are foreigners taking up space in Australian gaols?
LibLabs sell Australian citizenship like they sell Aussie assets
Look at the number of foreigners branch-stacked into MP appointments!
[Queensland has no Upper House]
Immigrant influence and political power only grows and increasingly dominates as more arrive and assert and impose their own cultures.
Why spend any more than 1% of time on people smuggling?
To spend more than 1% of time on people smuggling, while 99% of the problem are checking legally through customs at Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane airports may sound a worthy principle, but this is naive denial.
The boat people issue is the biggest LibLab distractive con of the 21st Century to date and all the voters seem to be hoodwinked. What cullable fools Australians are for not seeing the economic migrant elephant in the room!
To focus on the 1% asylum seekers is to try to build sand castles while the economic migrant tide is coming in. Wake up!
Your employment is at risk. These immigrants have more qualifications that you can poke a stick at!
Claims that we need to emulate Canadian "immigration miracle"
I've heard we need to emulate the Canadian "immigration miracle" or we will become economically moribund like those backward European countries.
Here is the evidence for that argument:
http://tiny.cc/usdji
http://tiny.cc/oalxa
http://tiny.cc/50e80
Toleration of people smuggling will make system unworkable
Whilst the threat of legal economic migrants to our sovereignty is vastly greater than that posed by illegal immigrants, an important principal is at stake in the latter issue. An immigration system must be based upon fairness to all those who wish to be citizens. To discriminate in favour of those prepared to pay large fees to people smugglers against those who are unable to pay can only make our immigration system less fair in the longer term.
Even though Prime Minister Gillard may seem to be less focussed on the former problem than we think she should be, I think she is nevertheless correct to try to ensure that paying people smugglers should not be a means to obtain citizenship.
I also think that we should accept that not all who disagree with some of what we think are necessarily doing so for the wrong motives. - JS
Why waste effort on 1% of the immigration problem?
Joan, back to the issue, since commenters are just players..
Why waste effort on 1% of the immigration problem?
Why criticise my argument as an "assumption" without clarity or counter argument?
If you are taking personal offence, get back to the issue!
I was tolerant of immigration when Australia had 17 million. Another 5 or 6 million later, any tolerance has worn off completely!
While we have local poverty, economic immigration is criminal invasion!
Neither 'Small Australia' nor aboriginal defenders 'racist'
Have you noticed how the cultural elites who promote "Big Australia" are often the same people who attach themselves to indigenous rights?
How is it that Aborigines who tried to defend their land are seen as heroes (rightfully in my mind) but Australians today who fight the "Big Australia" vision of corporate interests and cultural elites are declared "racist" and "economically illiterate" (without ever justifying or articulating their own arguments for economic immigration)?
How do we translate majority opinion into political power? (besides boycotting the Lib/Lab pantomime for a start!)
Greater tolerance of alternative views on immigration, please.
It is ungracious to dismiss an opinion or expression of personal experience as ignorant because it differs in some way from others. In attacking the intelligence of a sincere, non-troublesome contributor to this forum, a disservice is done to the general discussion. Mr Marlowe I think you write very well but please note, I am sufficiently intelligent to express my own thoughts and do not appreciate your footnote because your assumption is quite wrong.
The idea that people who express alternative opinions are lemmings "following media spin" is a smarty-pants put-down, a type of demeaning intellectual snobbery that is particularly unpleasant, especially from a man to a woman.
Citizenship in Australia is too cheap and easy
There are many privileges in becoming an Australian citizens. The following are the only obligations:
- Pledge loyalty to Australia and its people;
- Share in Australia’s democratic beliefs;
- Respect other Australian citizens’ rights and liberties; and
- Uphold and obey the laws of Australia.
New citizens should be under probation. Car drivers must be under probation for 3 years, so Citizenship also should be, and the impacts of not complying with these few obligations could be more wide and perverse than breaking those of a probationary driver. Any abuse of our generous welfare system should immediately mean a revoking of citizenship.
People accepting Australian citizenship should deny citizenship to any other country when their probationary is over. Any indications that immigrants commit crimes, try an impose another type of government (such as sharia law) or who directly challenge our ideals should be deported.
Citizenship to Australia should not come cheap and easy!
Climate change, overpopulation, not "refugees"
According to the UN, refugees are those who cannot stay in their own country, for safety reasons, because of their political, social, religious and ethnic origins. There are predicted to be millions of environmental, or climate change, "refugees" in the future as the present threats on our planet converge. However, just how many of these will be due to overpopulation and the consequences of consuming environmental resources and ecological degradation?
There will be consequences of climate change that will make areas less inhabitable, but with sensible planning, reforestation, and reduction of emissions, steps can be taken to reduce its impacts.
Australia has limited fertile soils and limited water supplies. With our cities already becoming unsustainably obese, housing unaffordable, and over-crowded, we in Australia have little capacity to accommodate millions of asylum seekers.
However, what we can do is help developing nations live sustainably, grow organic crops and make family planning accessible and socially acceptable.
With all the political attention on "border security" and the "threat" of asylum seekers, it conveniently takes the heat away from economic immigration!
We need some border security to stem the tide of economic/climate change/overpopulation refugees, but first the flow should be avoided by addressing the source - living sustainably, addressing greenhouse gas emissions, and limiting the blow-out of our global population growth! Ignoring it will not make it disappear!
Asylum seekers only 1% of Australia's immigration problem!
Clearly Joan in her comment above is either ignorant or just another misguided lemming* following the media spin about asylum seekers as if their less than 1% of immigration was serious.
If Joan cared to read my opening paragraph she may get the message that economic migrants comprised the 99% immigration problem. The facts are 99% of Australia's immigrants are economic migrants arriving by plane to mainly Melbourne and Sydney. If the media started filming this flood perhaps slower members of the public may start realising this is the real problem.
The issue has nothing to do with the few thousand people fleeing persecution and civil conflict. The asylum seeker issue is one of regional conflict. It is an humanitarian issue of the countries concerned. That people are forced to flee is a consequence of UNHCR neglect and failure to resolve and contain the problem within the countries concerned. The consequence is that the people themselves are given little choice but to flee and so the problem is handballed.
Australia's excessive immigration problem on the other is one of successive LibLab government active policy of selling Australian jobs to foreigners with economic means. Economic migrants continue to arrive in droves by plane at the invitation of LibLab governments in order to reap Australia's socio-economic wealth. Economic migrants are indeed those who have immense choice and they are exercising it at the expense of local Australians.
No more obvious is migrant displacement of Australians in the workplace than in government jobs. The public service is dominated by economic migrants. Yours truly has been on the receiving end of this displacement. Joan cites Strathfield, but look at Parramatta, Sydney's ethnic work hub, where the NSW Government is progressively transferring its many departments. Parramatta has become the migrant capital for well paid public service jobs.
*The "lemming suicide plunge' was first espoused in a 1958 Walt Disney movie, 'Wild Wilderness' showing lemmings mass suiciding off a cliff. While the origins of the myth are false, the myth has useful application. People that unquestioningly follow and believe what the read and see in the media may be likened to the lemming suicide plunge myth. Joan needs to question her lemming tendencies.
Bubonic plague in Peru, despite economic growth
Many people are familiar with bubonic plague as the "Black Death," the epidemic that killed millions of Europeans in the Middle Ages. Small rodents, such as rats, mice and squirrels, carry the infection. Fleas that live on these animals act as "vectors" and carry the infection from the rodent to humans. People may get exposed to the bacteria from flea bites or from direct contact with an infected animal.
Most developed countries, cities and towns have successfully controlled their rat populations, but rural and urban areas of developing countries often have problems with rat infestation. Typically, the bacterium is passed from rodents to other animals and humans via the bite of a flea. Humans can also acquire the disease by direct contact with infected tissue or fluids. The bacterial infection produces a painful swelling of the lymph nodes. These are called buboes. Often, the first swelling is evident in the groin.
During the Middle Ages, a large epidemic of bubonic plague was referred to as the Black Death, because of the blackening of the skin due to the dried blood that accumulated under the skin's surface.
The plague of London in 1665 killed over 17,000 people (almost twenty percent of the city's population).
Peru’s GDP per capita should double in less than 10 years if the country maintains an annual economic growth of 6 percent to 7 percent, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund. Despite the increase in Peru's GDP and their President boasting of great economic success and leadership, the outbreak of bubonic plague in Peru has been increasing rapidly where 3 new cases of infection have been confirmed.
Peru's health minister says an outbreak of plague has killed a 14-year-old boy and infected at least 31 people in a northern coastal province.
Health Minister Oscar Ugarte says authorities are screening sugar and fish meal exports from the south of the city of Trujillo and home of the popular Chicama beach. The city has been "locked down" due to the plague.
The first recorded plague outbreak in Peru was in 1903. The last, in 1994, killed 35 people.
In the area, the risk is very high. They seem to have no control on plague in animals, and there seems to be poor, if any, contact tracing. They likely have at least four generations of human-to-human plague transmission, and pneumonic plague cases are appearing that are not previously recognized contacts of known cases.
Plague is still very treatable with antibiotics, and actually antibiotics can apparently be used as a preventative as well.
According to the WHO Global TB Report 2009, Peru had more than 35,000 reported TB cases in 2007, a decline of 5.3 percent from 2006. Peru’s National TB Program (NTP) has been hindered by serious administrative and funding problems in the Ministry of Health (MOH). (More like not paying health professionals and mis-direction of funding!)
If the infection is untreated, the death rate from plague in humans approaches 75%. Prompt treatment most often leads to full recovery and a life-long immunity from further infection.
response to "over-population" on refugees
We like people to feel that they can make frank comments on our site but I feel that as an editor of candobetter.org I need to point out here that the comment above about "lazy refugees" lacks rationale and generalises unfairly about a very diverse class of people who come to this country. If we let this comment pass without editorial comment, readers may think that we see refugees as fair targets. We don't. Traditionally refugees were accepted here as people in need of a refuge. It has only been recently, in the context of constantly growing population, that these people have been stigmatised. This was a political ploy to make it seem that the 'programmed migration' was under control - just not the 'unprogrammed'. In fact the programmed and economic immigration is beyond all democratic control and far outweighs the problem of inflow of refugees, stateless persons, or asylum seekers. That is not to say that global numbers of displaced and persecuted, as well as of the destitute, is not a potential problem which the world needs to deal with better than just expecting people to flee from untenable situations to uncertain destinations.
Sheila Newman, population sociologist
home page
Copyright to the author. Please contact sheila [AT] candobetter org or the editor if you wish to make substantial reproduction or republish.
Over-population
If theres nothing wrong with a big population why don't our wonderful immigrants go back to their Third World countries?
It is not a question of racism, it is a question of compassion not colour. How many more starving, homeless people does Australia need before it joins the Third World officially.
We already have too many homeless/hungry people to take care of we don't need anymore. The kind (not colour) of people coming to Australia are not growing our economy they are bleeding it dry.
If we must accept these lazy refugees then they should be steralised first, so they can't further burden our welfare system with thier multiple off-spring.
Immigration.
I believe public anger about the asylum seeker boats has much to do with pay-to-enter persons aided by people smuggling personnel who will inevitably grow their businesses into an unstoppable industry - if the Australian government does not stop it as a matter of national interest.
All businesses expand at some stage. In the case of people smuggling, we are going to see bigger, more efficient boats that remove the "leaky boat" argument from the equation.
Visa over-stayers plan to disappear into their ethnic communities and are consequently very difficult to find. Although they are not paying people smugglers, I don't believe Australians are any less concerned about their illegality.
This is the shared conclusion of an Asian student living in Sydney :-
"Australians mad giving country away. Australia Asian country now. We take."
Think about it.
If any of you have been to Strathfield lately, you will understand what the student smugly told us.
I don't hear anyone bagging Japan for refusing "asylum seekers". They are unapologetic about protecting their culture, race and country from outside influences.
SPCA: Calf killing could harm dairy reputation
The SPCA's national chief executive is warning the premature birthing of calves could harm New Zealand's farming reputation.
Dairy farmers deliberately birth thousands of calves prematurely each year in a practice known as "inducing". The vet gives the cows two injections, so their calves will be born 8-12 weeks premature.
The practice is done to get all cows in a herd to calve at the same time, and produce milk earlier. It means many calves are born dead, but some are born still alive and have to be euthanised.
Around 200,000 calves were induced each year and although it's legal, it had become an ethical issue dividing the dairy industry.
SPCA national chief Robyn Kippenberger said the practice of inducing would come as a shock to many New Zealanders.
It's an awful look, she said on TVNZ's News at 8, saying the practice could have worldwide implications.
The problem we have is that people aren't coming to terms with the fact that this is now global, it's now on YouTube, people in Europe can see it, and that's the market for our milk.
Kippenberger acknowledged not all farmers induced calves, but that the ones that did must demonstrate that they have good practices.
Many vets, including Bernice Mangnall from Canterbury, were also against the practice.
Times have changed, public perception has changed and the requirements on the overseas market have changed, she said. So this is just moving it on ... and phasing it out.
Inductions were introduced 40 years ago. They are legal but the government's code of welfare for dairy cattle said it was best practice not to do them.
The industry originally agreed to end inductions in October but it had since decided to gradually phase them out.
Wayne Ricketts of the NZ Veterinary Association said on TV ONE's Breakfast programme he had been talking over a period of months with Federated Farmers and Dairy NZ about phasing-out the process.
He said it's time to "move on" and change the process, but does not think the practice is cruel.
We've actually got some very strict guidelines in place, which are very much around animal welfare.
He said he does not think there will be a drop-off in milk production once the process is banned.
Overall, there won't be a marked drop. Things like the bad weather we had here in Wellingtonn last night will make more of a drop in milk production.
Calf killing could harm reputation
Source: ONE News
You can view the full announcement by following this link:
dairy industry cruelty
In Victoria alone, 600,000 calves less than 1 week old are transported long distances to slaughter each year . These baby orphans, who should have the comfort of their mothers, have to cope with the stress of transport and strange environments. Overall 0.64%, or almost 4000 a year in Victoria, die during transport.
Benefits of soy milk
Urban population growth
It is time to accept that Melbourne has already grown past its optimum size. All three promulgated options to increase housing stock for a growing population threaten to harm both the quality of life and the resilience of our city. This is especially true with the added stressors of Peak Oil and Climate Change.
1) Expansion of the urban growth boundary increases our car dependence. It also destroys valuable farm land and market gardens on the city fringe, thus increasing the monetary and environmental costs of food.
2) In-fill of green-wedges destroys the "lungs" of our city, worsens the urban heat-island effect and worsens flooding from storm-water run-off. Large, open, vegetated spaces are necessary for both mental and physical health.
3) Densification along public transport routes has some merit but there should be a height-limit of five storeys, not the 22 floors plus promoted by the government. Outside of the CBD all buildings should be on a human scale. People should readily be able to climb to the top floor by stairs. Any footprint that these buildings cover should be compensated by extensive roof gardens.
Dairy industry is the largest water user
ABARE: Water use in the dairy processing industry "it should be noted in that period (2004/5) the largest water use within the agriculture industry was for dairy farming which used 1,710 GL or 52% of total agricultural water use, and that agriculture overall accounted for 66% of total Victorian water consumption....
Some dairy plants are located in communities without abundant potable water sources and can have a major draw on the local fresh water resources."
"The largest uses of water within the agriculture industry (WA) were for livestock (156 GL), sugar (152 GL), dairy farming (54 GL) and vegetables (52 GL)". See other States too!
Abbott confusing economic immigration with "border protection"
Mr Abbott was asked about his views about Howard's immigration policies of late 2008 when he said one of the Howard government's "greatest but least recognised achievements" was to rehabilitate the immigration program to record levels, because asylum seekers boats had been stopped.
"One of the reasons for that was the Howard government stopped the boats."
Public support for immigration was falling away now because the government had not been able to control Australia's borders.
Tony Abbott cannot be trusted to adhere to his promises to cut immigration. He is deliberately confusing our economic immigration with "border security" and asylum seekers. Howard's "protection" of Australia's borders was a smoke screen to distract the public from debating our immigration numbers.
At the time of Howard's border protection issues,
Abbott said that "as many people as possible" should be able to enjoy the freedoms and benefits of living in Australia. This is despite the fact that higher populations are reducing the "freedoms and benefits of living in Australia"!
Tony Abbott admits he is an "immigration man" and wants a stronger (ie "bigger") Australia.
Our refugee intake - that is, people who are processed offshore and come through the system - is anywhere between 12,000 and 14,000 [a year], with another 1000 to 5000 in any given year coming by boat. Many also arrive by air, but these numbers do not get the media frenzy of the boats!
These numbers pale into insignificance with those of economic immigration, including students and New Zealanders making their homes here.
Tony Abbott cannot be trusted to limit immigration, and is willing to use public fear of asylum seekers, and border protection issues, as smoke-screens to hide the real source of our population growth.
Help needed to organise national anti-population-growth rally