Whilst I have already stated that I consider, Australia’s transition to a republic inevitable and I have no objection to an appropriate style of republic I have taken on board the comment so succinctly put by Phoenix at here and agree that we must remain focussed on core issues so as not to be distracted or diverted in other directions.
I vividly remember John Howard’s republican referendum where the question put to the people was not ‘ Do you want Australia to become a republic?’ but rather” Do you want Australia to remain a constitutional monarchy or adopt this particular republican model? Due to this obvious hijacking of the core issue we have inevitably retained the Status Quo and the republican cause was setback several years.
With this in mind John I question whether constitutional reform to a two tier system should be coupled with a reform to enable a republic. Whilst I consider both are inevitable and desirable neither is dependant upon the other and joining them together makes the issues far more complex and perhaps maybe self defeating in bringing about the changes.
I reiterate that in my opinion change to a two tier system is far more important than adoption of a republic and potentially far more beneficial, thus the focus of my priority.
Having said all this I consider one other aspect of change that may be desirable also, would be to hold a referendum on major issues, simultaneous to each scheduled federal election when terms expire with a view to keeping pollies in touch with the desires of the people. With this in mind a suitable committee system would need to be maintained to decide on which questions if any be put to the people each time around. I know referendums are costly but so to is remaining entrenched in undesirable ruts. There is always the possibility of issues being hijacked or beaten down (see above) by those with ulterior motives but at least we can try.
Comments
Re governmental tiers and constitutional reform
John Marlow has commenced a thread on this very subject in his article "A Two-Tier Australian Republic". I suggest further comments on this important subject be posted on his thread rather than mixing with numerous other topics on this miscellaneous page.
Post comments here re constitutional reform
Welcome aboard John Marlowe.
I suggest readers might also look at the article "Australia's broken governance system more important than Anthem" (posted as comment) and related comments.
And post all further comments on this thread so this important issue does not get lost on the miscellaneous page.
Melbourne's property market "boom" in record sales
Melbourne's property market record sales last week is wonderful news for investors, real estate agents and land developers, not to mention all the revenue in stamp duty for the State Government. All this population growth, manipulated by Kevin Rudd's fetish for a "big Australia", has created a land and housing "boom", and people in this growth industry are becoming wealthy.
An average house in Victoria will rake in over $20,000 in stamp duty, without any services provided and without any benefits for the payee!
Median house prices in Ivanhoe Banyule, a comfortable middle class suburb for families, has soared from a median price of about $50,000 in 1980 to over $1 million now! Renters over the past decade have tended to pay a noticeably larger proportion of their incomes in rent than they did 25 years ago.
We are not really any richer when the price of housing rises, but it is making people more vulnerable to homelessness and mortgage stress. What is creating a boom for our economy is dividing our society between those who are benefiting from growth, and those who are not! A basic need is being exploited as a business, to make maximise profits.
According to The Greens, in the last financial year, the federal Labor and Liberal parties have accepted millions of dollars in donations from lobbyists, pharmaceutical companies, hotels, financial institutions and property developers. With these vested interests, those benefiting from population growth are making the policies to continue the benefits rolling in!
We used to be a land of home-owners, the lucky country, but no any more! Even the working-class could afford to buy their own homes, but now even professionals are being locked out due to excessive competition.
Where is the justice if a few elite become wealthy at the expense of the general public, the taxpayers, the existing population of Australia?
The demand for housing, caused by population growth driven mainly by immigration, is displacing young people and families from the housing market.
A Two-Tier Australian Republic
I appreciate the above input from 'Search for Truth', and so I have contributed a new vision for two-tier government in Australia. Go to new article:
'Two-Tier Australian Republic'
Feedback and development of policy ideas welcome - under the article itself.
Windsor development
As I read it , James- on this occasion the decision is not to go ahead with a development. The principle at hand though is that the decision has already been made and the result of the community consultation predicted. The email says that they will be able to say they have consulted. It gives the flavour and mentality of Justin Madden's department. It is all about being seen to have consulted rather than really consulting because the results of consultation are important to the eventual outcome. Everyone I know who makes submissions on planning knows or strongly suspects that the decision has already been made and that our time is being wasted but we all write them so that at least our views are on public record.
Madden is embarrassed by the email and rightly so because he would not want the public to know the culture of his department. If that is the way things are discussed internally it reflects a shocking attitude and a contempt for the public. It is like being a law unto themselves.
Madden tried to normalise it all by saying it was "speculative" and that the "language was inappropriate". As I said on Jon Faines programme, ringing in soon after the interview, it is not just a matter of language but the intent of the message. If Justin Madden really thinks it is just a matter of language and inappropriateness then he has completely lost sight of his real role and it would appear his level of respect for the public is about zero.
Josh Gordon's pop article misleads on State Responsibilities
Ex-banker, now Editor, Josh Gordon of The Age has written an article about population with two major faults that belong to the big population propaganda brigade and situate him with the growth lobbyists. This is not surprising given his banking background and the Age interest in international sales of Australian RealEstate through their property dot com and other facilities. The only other explanation that occurs to me is that Josh Gordon is a lousy researcher. The name of the article is, "Congestion the ultimate cost of people ingestion", (February 28, 2010.)
In his article, Josh Gordon promotes the furphy that State Governments have little control over immigration, using the Victorian State opposition spokesman as a mouthpiece for misinformation.
"As opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison points out, the states have little influence over migration levels, despite being responsible for many areas that are affected, including planning, infrastructure and environment."
This is sadly misleading to his readers. The Victorian State Government has a major net-site that advertises for people to come from overseas and elsewhere to live in Victoria. It is called Live in Melbourne Victoria Australia and makes a shambles of democracy.
The other furphy he promotes is that the discussion must be about how much bigger our immigration intake might be.
He does not allow for democratic input against high immigration.
"None of this is to say that immigration is a bad thing. What we do need is to have a sensible debate about how big we want to get."
Thus one must regretfully consign his article to the fish and chips wrapper status along with so much other propaganda.
SPPA must stay focussed on core goals
Subject was: Reality of Politics. - JS
For several years I have been an active advocate for the limiting of Australian population growth. As such I strongly endorse the formation of this new political party with this concept at its core. I have sent in my application for membership.
Given the strong groundswell public opinion likely to favour such a party it is probable the SPPA will quickly draw the attention of the major parties and the mainstream media. It is therefore imperative for this party to stay focused on the core message. The party will initially attract a range of members who, while united on the core party policy, will have a disperate range of views on every other topic under the sun. It is very easy for the mainstream media to use these range of views to paint the party as a pack of radical ratbags. The Pauline Hanson saga is a clear picture of how this stereotyping can occur in the media. Independent of Ms Hanson's political views, most fair minded commentators would agree that the way in which she was crucified by the media was, at the very least, undemocratic.
Any new party that attracts strong popular opinion will be vehemently attacted in this same way. So any supporters out there will need to understand the newly formed party will not be able to divert attention to directly support your pet political cause, be it desalination plants or koala sanctuaries. The party in it's formative stages needs to stay focused on the core message.
biophysical regions
Don't have much time to comment here, but I would have agreed with you, Search for Truth, but James has reminded me of the size thing. The best way of determining regions is biophysical, I think.
So I will have a think about all of this.
Sheila Newman, population sociologist
home page
Final decision on Tuesday, 2nd March, on NSW River Redgums
A final decision on River Red Gum National Parks is due by Tuesday, 2nd March, but there are no guarantees it will be a good one. (The Wilderness Society news)
The Minister for Forestry, Ian MacDonald, has said he does not agree with the recommendations of the Natural Resources Commission for large new National Parks and is working to undermine them.
Logging has to stop in the Millewa forest and the promised National Park of 42,000 hectares needs to go ahead in full. These ecosystems are too important for chainsaws to attack.
The full reserve areas recommended by the Natural Resources Commission need to be protected. Red gums help prevent soil salinity and help to protect the river system. They are all part of our national heritage.
Forget a Transition period that allows logging to continue - the trees need to be protected now. State parks should be incorporated into the National Parks system to protect our biodiversity, and ironically this year is the International Year of Biodiversity! This seems to be un-noticed in Australia.
Forests NSW are trying to open up new areas for logging in the Millewa forest!
Like the forest industries of Tasmania and Victoria, they are a law unto themselves and with their chainsaws, they have too much political power.
Please help stop this vandalism, and protect the habitat of our wildlife, and that of koalas!
Contact: macdonald.office[AT]macdonald.minister.nsw.gov.au
South East Forest defenders' media release
Thanks for all the work you have put into your blog, and into saving forests
chrs noel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
SERCA South East Regional Conservation Alliance
ChipBusters
Editorial comment: and thank you, Noel and all those others fighting the necessary fight to prevent the further destruction od Australia's old growth wilderness areas. We have appended the included comment as an appendix to this article. Please let us know of any further developments, be they good or bad. - JS
Two or three tier Government?
Sorry James but I beg to differ.
Continuance of a three tier system with regional governance as you suggest would in my opinion defeat all purpose of change.
Essentially we would still have the same system as we have now though the new “States” would have a different name, different shape and different boundaries. With the Feds administering Health, Education, Environment, Roads if national significance and rail networks and other issues too large (and transcending municipal boundaries)what function would the middle tier perform?
If a third tier was retained how would the various regions be determined?
By;
• population?
• resources?
• climate?
• land use?
... and how big should they be?
It is not my intention to have a go at your comment I raised the issue to stimulate credible opinions/observations/debate and welcome any legitimate views.
I am not suggesting any further amalgamations of local government. The term ‘local’ quickly loses its significance when the area under consideration becomes too large and becomes ‘regional’. I consider regional issues could be addressed adequately in a two tier system with a suitable chain of command and responsibility.
My point is that big issues and services such as health, education, law etc should be universally administered from a national perspective.
Within a two tier system there would undoubtedly be a need for co-operation, liaison and partnerships at a regional level between various local municipalities, particularly in the areas now recognised as our State Capital cities, these kinds of liaisons occur now to some extent in a three tier system. I agree there is an obvious need for some means of keeping a cohesive integrated approach between the numerous local municipalities as allowing them to act independently in isolation without consideration of the neighbours could not work effectively but I do not think a third tier of government is necessary nor desirable to this end.
I consider a two tier system should be quite workable.
I would certainly appreciate any suggestions as to what issues others may consider could not be adequately addressed by a two tier system and why.
I consider discussion & debate healthy.
Shouldn't we also oppose Windsor Hotel redevelopment?
On aspect of this controversy which, for me, doesn't add up is that on this occasion Madden appears to have been attempting to prevent an anti-social redevelopment rather than to walk rough-shod over community objections to ensure that the development goes ahead as he normally does.
So, shouldn't we give him credit for what he was trying to do, even, even if his methods appear questionable on this occasion.
What have I missed?
Catholic church's anti-contraception hypocrisy
Subject was: Edmund Davey's comment. - JS
I am going to keep it brief:
Congratulations, Edmund Davey! All you say about the Pope (aka 'Holy Father') is spot-on. Remember seeing a program about the slums of Mexico City where a woman who had had 12 kids had an IUD implanted only to be told by her priest that this was a sin. She then had the 13th child, but had another implant and did not tell her priest. Unfortunately our current leader of the (Australian) opposition is a fundamentalist Catholic - dark times ahead.
All best to you,
Helga from down under
Editorial comment: We appreciate brevity, but there is no need to be brief for its own sake. Please feel welcome to make your comments as short or as long as you wish. (But of course, within reason. We would probably consider more than 10,000 words excessive. However, if you feel the need to post that many words, then post them all the same and we will try to work out how to handle it.) - JS
Replace states with regional governments, make BCIR's the law
I think it would be a good idea to abolish state governments but I think we still need three tiers of Government. The problems of forced council amalgamations in Queensland and Victoria show that most council sizes are too large. However, to have only two tiers the national government on one tier and hundreds of of small local governments at the second tier would be too unwieldy.
We would need something in between -- perhaps regional Governments that would combine the regions occupied by a number of local Governments.
The far greater problem is that Governments are not democratic and have not been for at least 3 decades. They are not democratic because nearly all of the important questions which have determined the direction of our society have been made against the wishes of the puplic. (If I am wrong, how many can you name which have been with the support of the public? Of those, how many were made with the informed consent of the public?) See, my article "Why Queenslanders must demand new and fair state elections" of 12 Jan 10, which lists some of the decisions imposed against our wishes by state and federal govenments in recent years.
For Australia to be democratic instead of an elective dictatorship, we need the right to recall Governments which have clearly lost the trust of the people such as the Governments of NSW and Queensland and we need legislation to allow any citizen to force the governments to hold Binding Citizens Initiated Referndum as the citizens of Switzerland are entitled to do. See, also, Internet censorship, Citizens Initiated Referenda and the Greens - an open letter of 23 Dec 09.
Australia's broken governance system more important than Anthem
Subject was: Do Anthems Matter? - JS
It bothers me that so many people seem to put so much energy into debates about the National Anthem and such and appear to be far more concerned about the national anthem, the flag we fly, or our path to becoming a republic than other issues which to me seem far more important. Debates on these issues keep popping up, inevitably some desire the retention of the status quo and others seek immediate change, others hold a range of views in between. To my mind these matters pale into insignificance when viewed alongside the continual duplication, inefficiencies and scapegoating that our current system of governance thrusts upon us. For many years I have entertained the notion of removing the inherently superfluous, out dated mid tier of government (at state level) and reallocating functions to the local or federal governments.
We will always have need for local government to facilitate garbage collection, drainage and planning matters but beyond that I would like to live in a unified country with uniform standards and administration of our health, education and legal systems, a nation with a far greater accountability on our government than currently exists. I for one am tired of the continual scapegoating and respective whineing from governments as follows;
• The States complain that ‘the federal government allocates insufficient funding.’
• The Feds respond to the effect that ‘sufficient funds are allocated but they have no control over how the money is spent’.
As long as these loopholes exist the vicious cycle continues, monies are squandered on inefficient, ineffective programs and policies with each party blaming the other. With the average voter not really in a position to identify who is at fault.
Our current federation was designed with 19th century thinking and 19th century technologies in mind. Communications were slow, thinking was local rather than global as now applies, competition between the states was rife and a major factor in things such as construction of incompatible rail gauges which has held this country back, cost us dearly and continues to do so. 19th century consideration of environmental issues were minimal and as long as environmental management is localised, fragmented and inconsistent things are only set to get worse. The Murray Darling Basin is but one example of environmental issues transcending state borders with management fragmented, impractical and backward. John Howard’s efforts to assume federal control of basin management were I consider bold, noble and well intentioned but regrettably decades too late. The self serving recalcitrance of the Victorian Government in rejecting the notion outright is an example of how difficult this change to federalism will be. I consider our State borders are relics of history and accordingly should be relegated as such as they currently represent nothing more than an unfortunate burdeneous legacy.
By placing issues of sole responsibility for Health, Education, Environment and such like with the federal government I believe there would be far greater level of transparency and accountability upon our parliament ( with no-one else to blame) and as a result a much higher level of democracy placing more power, where it belongs, through the vote , with the people.
I consider changing the flag and or the anthem will always be debated and changes will come and go. I consider a change to a republic is eventually inevitable. I consider federalism is also inevitable and slowly taking place but is far more important and potentially far more beneficial than any of these other issues. The sooner it comes the sooner we all will benefit to greater advantage. Unfortunately it requires constitutional change and complicity of the States. Perhaps those who will be most obstructionist to this important issue will be the self serving, self interested, fat cat politicians (as opposed to those serving the state, the nation or the people). I see no reason to delay this important change any longer than necessary.
What do other people think?
Australia's National Anthem ok but let lyrics evolve with times
I agree that while Waltzing Matilda conjures nostalia, its lyrics are odd for a national anthem.
A tale about a jolly swagman camping by a billabong, rustling a jumbuck then escaping into the billabong is bizarre. It is not relevant to messages needing to be conveyed in a national anthem.
Advance Australia Fair was chosen to replace Waltzing Matilda in 1984.
"In 1973 the Whitlam government decided that the country needed an anthem that could represent Australia with "distinction" and started a competition to find one. The Australia Council for the Arts organised the contest, which was dubbed the Australian National Anthem Quest. The contest was held in two stages, the first seeking lyrics and the second music, each having an AUD $5,000 prize for the winning entry. On the recommendation of the Council for the Arts, none of the new entries were felt worthy enough, so the contest ended with the suggestions for Advance Australia Fair, Waltzing Matilda and Song of Australia.
Advance Australia Fair emerged as the most popular choice for the national anthem after an opinion poll in 1974 (the Australian Bureau of Statistics polled 60,000 people nationally). A spokesman for the Prime Minister Gough Whitlam stated that the Government regarded the tune primarily as the national anthem.
At the same time as the 1977 referendum, a national plebiscite was held to choose the National Song. Advance Australia Fair received 43.29% of the vote, defeating the three alternatives: Waltzing Matilda (28.28%), Song of Australia (9.65%), and the existing national anthem God Save the Queen (18.78%).
Advance Australia Fair was adopted as the national anthem (the 1st and 3rd verses, with modified lyrics) on 19 April 1984 by a decision of the Labor government of Bob Hawke and a proclamation by the Governor-General Sir Ninian Stephen."
So the choice was very democratic and is quite current in comparison with many nations.
The song is easy for most people to sing, which is an important consideration. I think the music is fine, but some of the lyrics may need to evolve to reflect social attitudes better.
Certainly if you look at the British National Anthem it is all monarch-centric, not about the people. So in many respects Australia's national anthem is far more relevant and inspiring than Britain's:
"God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen.
O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall.
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all.
Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign:
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice
God save the Queen."
As for France's national anthem, 'La Marseillaise', it is the opposite in approach to that of Britain. La Marsellaise is a protest against monarchy and a peoples' call to arms during the French Revolution and about France invading neighbouring countries. This is arguably hardly appropriate or relevant today!
La Marseillaise:
"Allons enfants de la Patrie, Come, children of the Fatherland (Homeland),
Le jour de gloire est arrivé ! The day of glory has arrived!
Contre nous de la tyrannie, Against us, Tyranny!
L'étendard sanglant est levé, (bis) The Bloody banner is raised, (repeat)
Entendez-vous dans les campagnes Do you hear in the countryside
Mugir ces féroces soldats ? Those ferocious soldiers roaring?
Ils viennent jusque dans nos bras They come up to our arms
Égorger nos fils, nos compagnes ! To slit the throats of our sons and wives!
Aux armes, citoyens, To arms, citizens,
Formez vos bataillons, Form your battalions,
Marchons, marchons ! Let's march, let's march!
Qu'un sang impur May an impure blood
Abreuve nos sillons ! Water our furrows!
Que veut cette horde d'esclaves, What does this horde of slaves,
De traîtres, de rois conjurés ? Of traitors and conjured kings want?
Pour qui ces ignobles entraves, For whom are these ignoble trammels,
Ces fers dès longtemps préparés ? (bis) These long-prepared irons? (repeat)
Français, pour nous, ah ! quel outrage Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
Quels transports il doit exciter ! What fury it must arouse!
C'est nous qu'on ose méditer It is we whom they dare plan
De rendre à l'antique esclavage ! To return to ancient slavery!
Aux armes, citoyens... To arms, citizens...
Quoi ! des cohortes étrangères What! Foreign cohorts
Feraient la loi dans nos foyers ! Would make law in our homes!
Quoi ! ces phalanges mercenaires What! These mercenary phalanxes
Terrasseraient nos fiers guerriers ! (bis) Would strike down our proud warriors! (repeat)
Grand Dieu ! par des mains enchaînées Great God ! By chained hands
Nos fronts sous le joug se ploieraient Our heads would bow under the yoke
De vils despotes deviendraient Vile despots would become
Les maîtres de nos destinées ! The masters of our destinies!
Aux armes, citoyens... To arms, citizens...
Tremblez, tyrans et vous perfides Tremble, tyrants and you traitors
L'opprobre de tous les partis, The shame of all parties,
Tremblez ! vos projets parricides Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Vont enfin recevoir leurs prix ! (bis) Will finally receive their prizes! (repeat)
Tout est soldat pour vous combattre, Everyone is a soldier to combat you
S'ils tombent, nos jeunes héros, If they fall, our young heroes,
La terre en produit de nouveaux, The earth produces new ones,
Contre vous tout prêts à se battre ! Against you, all ready to fight!
Aux armes, citoyens... To arms, citizens...
Français, en guerriers magnanimes, Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors,
Portez ou retenez vos coups ! Bear or hold back your blows!
Épargnez ces tristes victimes, Spare these sorry victims,
À regret s'armant contre nous. (bis) Arming against us with regrets. (repeat)
Mais ces despotes sanguinaires, But these bloodthirsty despots,
Mais ces complices de Bouillé, But these accomplices of Bouillé,
Tous ces tigres qui, sans pitié, All these tigers who, mercilessly,
Déchirent le sein de leur mère ! Rip their mother's breast!
Aux armes, citoyens... To arms, citizens...
Amour sacré de la Patrie, Sacred love of the Fatherland,
Conduis, soutiens nos bras vengeurs Lead, support our avenging arms
Liberté, Liberté chérie, Liberty, cherished Liberty,
Combats avec tes défenseurs ! (bis) Fight with thy defenders! (repeat)
Sous nos drapeaux que la victoire Under our flags, victory shall
Accoure à tes mâles accents, Hurry to thy manly accents,
Que tes ennemis expirants Thy expiring enemies shall,
Voient ton triomphe et notre gloire ! See thy triumph and our glory!
Aux armes, citoyens... To arms, citizens...
(Couplet des enfants) (Children's Verse)
Nous entrerons dans la carrière[3] We shall enter in the (military) career
Quand nos aînés n'y seront plus, When our elders are no longer there,
Nous y trouverons leur poussière There we shall find their dust
Et la trace de leurs vertus (bis) And the trace of their virtues (repeat)
Bien moins jaloux de leur survivre Much less jealous to survive them
Que de partager leur cercueil, Than to share their coffins,
Nous aurons le sublime orgueil We shall have the sublime pride
De les venger ou de les suivre Of avenging or following them
Aux armes, citoyens... To arms, citizens..."
Now if Australians adopted words like that in our national anthem, our mates across the ditch in New Zealand would have cause for concern. So a reality check shows that we could do a lot worse.
Conclusion: Advance Australia Fair was chosen by plebescite relatively recently and is accepted by most Australians. perhaps some of the lyrics like "In history's page, let every stage Advance Australia fair"and "Brittannia rules the wave!" and "We've boundless plains to share" need to be replaced.
Postscript:
As for New Zealand's national anthem, they are even more culturally confused than we are. New Zealdn is the only country with two natinal anthems. "God Defend New Zealand" is one of the national anthems of New Zealand, together with "God Save the Queen".
God Defend New Zealand runs like this and is quite similar in themes to Advance Australa Fair.
"God of Nations at Thy feet,
In the bonds of love we meet,
Hear our voices, we entreat,
God defend our free land.
Guard Pacific's triple star
From the shafts of strife and war,
Make her praises heard afar,
God defend New Zealand.
Men of every creed and race,
Gather here before Thy face,
Asking Thee to bless this place,
God defend our free land.
From dissension, envy, hate,
And corruption guard our state,
Make our country good and great,
God defend New Zealand.
Peace, not war, shall be our boast,
But, should foes assail our coast,
Make us then a mighty host,
God defend our free land.
Lord of battles in Thy might,
Put our enemies to flight,
Let our cause be just and right,
God defend New Zealand.
Let our love for Thee increase,
May Thy blessings never cease,
Give us plenty, give us peace,
God defend our free land.
From dishonour and from shame,
Guard our country's spotless name,
Crown her with immortal fame,
God defend New Zealand.
May our mountains ever be
Freedom's ramparts on the sea,
Make us faithful unto Thee,
God defend our free land.
Guide her in the nations' van,
Preaching love and truth to man,
Working out Thy glorious plan,
God defend New Zealand."
Notably, none of the above anthems conveys a message respecting the rights and aspirations of indigenous peoples.
Why is old growth cheaper than plantation timber?
I have been told that a major reason that natural growth and old growth logging continues is that it is sold to the loggers far more cheaply than plantation timber can possibly sell. Although the Australian public owns and they should be available for posterity, our forests are being marketed by governments at a huge financial loss and, of course, at cost of our co-species and, ultimately, human survival. Most or all of our political leaders are no better than commercial nazis.
Candobetter.org should do an investigation of how much we subsidise the loggers and a price comparison and find out exactly who is responsible today for this ongoing historical con.
I should add that it is well-known that foresty departments have been traditionally staffed by loggers.
Regional Forest Agreements killing wildlife for woodchips again
Thank you for highlighting this continuing threat Vivienne.
I have direct contact with the conservation campaigners onsite down at Mumbulla and Murrah State Forests. See Article
Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia
It's not all of us who are
It's not all of us who are obsessed. It's the feral colonial governments with their corporate mates.
We need crowds to stop those bulldozers.
Advance Australia Where?
What is so Australian about 'Advance Australia Fair?'
Sounds like pretentious Victorian-era colonialism to me.
Of trolls and ecological environmentalists
Editorial comment was:
"Anyway, environmentalists are all perfectly well aware that by going about their daily lives they unintentionally cause considerable harm to the environment for reasons largely beyond their control. An obvious example is the necessity of having to rely on private motor vehicles as a result of the abysmal standards of Australian town planning."
Indeed. That is why environmentalists have few or no children - that is one of the few things in their power to arrest the multiplication of personal impact beyond their control. That is why environmentalists are so worried about population growth. And the growth lobby is looking for more consumption AND more people.
Some people who use 'environmentalism' symbolically may feel that they are more moral. Real ecologists, in my opinion, are worried about survival and realise that quality of life and health of biodiversity are the buffer-zones between mere survival and long-term quality of life.
My concerns about "Waltzing Matilda" as our National Anthem
Whilst "Advance Australia Fair" with its reference to us having "boundless plains to share" is ludicrous as a national anthem, I have never been able to understand the enthusiam that others have felt for "Waltzing Matilda".
A recent documentary "The Matilda Myth" in two parts, the first being on Radio National's Background Briefing and the second being on the Hindsight.
It appears that the song, in fact served to cover up the murder of the unionist Samuel "Frenchy" Hoffmeister, by implying that Hoffmeister had killed himself, by implying that it was a suicide.
The transcript of Background Briefing dealing with the inquest follows:
Ian Walker: The inquest into Frenchy Hoffmeister's death was held only days after his body was found, but, the wildly conflicting witness statements paint a muddy picture to say the least. Trevor Monti has been a barrister in Melbourne for more than 30 years and he's taken a keen interest in the Hoffmeister case. He's convinced the official finding of suicide just doesn't stack up.
Trevor Monti: About the only non-contested fact, I think, is the fact that Frenchy Hoffmeister was shot through the roof of the mouth, as a result of which he died. The circumstances by which he came to suffer that wound are quite controversial. There are a number of different versions given by witnesses at the inquest. What I think is significant is that this inquest is conducted three days after the death of Frenchy Hoffmeister, when these events should have been very fresh in the minds of those who were present in the union camp where he was found dead. And for there to be such blatant discrepancies in the accounts given by various witnesses is just amazing.
Ian Walker: Trevor Monti reckons the inquest has the whiff of a classic cover-up, starting with the incredibly, or perhaps deliberately, shoddy work of the investigating officer.
Trevor Monti: There's no doubt that there was a completely inadequate investigation made by Senior Constable Cafferty. And, the more so, after he extracted the bullet from Frenchy's head and then compared the weight of that to the weight of the other bullets that were in the revolver and found that the bullet extracted from Frenchy's head to be heavier than those in the revolver. I mean, that of itself, I would think, would normally call for further inquiry and further thought and further investigation.
Ian Walker: The one thing we do have that's quite solid is the doctor's examination of the bullet wound and the bullet found in Frenchy's head. If this indeed was not a suicide, and was a murder, it's pretty much similar to a gangland assassination, isn't it?
Trevor Monti: Yes, it is, but he could well have been murdered by someone placing a gun in his mouth and pulling the trigger.
Ian Walker: Is this a good old-fashioned cover-up then?
Trevor Monti: The magistrate was called in those days a police magistrate, and they were appointed from anywhere out of public life, oftentimes without much legal training. It's a little harsh to say that he may have been involved with the pastoralists but they were turbulent times. It may be the case that he was quite happy to have the death of Frenchy Hoffmeister put away as quickly as possible, with a finding of suicide that would result in no further inquiry being made.
Ian Walker: Barrister Trevor Monti.
The official finding of the coroner was that Hoffmeister, presumably racked with guilt about the bungled arson, had committed suicide, possibly to save his fellow unionists from going to jail. The more plausible explanation, according to the Magoffins, is that Hoffmeister's comrades shot him, so he could be used as a scapegoat for the arson attack.
(End of transcript).
Yet only a few months later, according to the transcript, "in an extraordinary scene, champagne flows at the Kynuna pub between the local squatters and striking unionists, who only months before had been trying to kill each other. In a way, they may have been toasting the death of Frenchy Hoffmeister, who was found with a bullet in his head the morning after he allegedly lit the match at the Dagworth woolshed."
Yet the program seemed to ignore this unsettling information that it, itself, had unearthed and continued to treat "Waltzing Matilda" as if it were the celebration of Australian unionism and rebelliousness. Of this I wrote on the ABC forum:
Thanks for having produced an excellent documentary.
I also find disturbing the fact that McPherson served champagne to the same striking shearers who had previously burnt down his shearing shed.
The most likely explanation of events was that a tacit agreement was somehow reached between the strikers on the one hand and McPherson, the police and the authorities on the other, that the murder of a scapegoat was an acceptable means of enabling an agreement to be reached between the two parties in conflict.
Thus a crude form of "an eye for an eye" "justice" conveniently allowed the conflict to end, but it would hardly seem fair to the murdered Hoffmeister.
As one who supports trade unionism and generally celebrates its history and achievements, I don't see how this particular episode is not to its credit.
NSW Koala habitat to be logged as early as Monday
Koalas are under threat from logging due to start on NSW's south coast as early as Monday, conservationists say.
A study done by the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) confirms there is a small but viable koala colony in the Mumbulla and Murrah state forests, which lie between Bermagui and Bega.
We in Australia are obsessed by economic returns and jobs at the expense of our environmental heritage and the little value being put on wildlife and their habitat. Jobs are only temporal. Koala numbers are under threat in Queensland and NSW. Surely timber can be found elsewhere? It is far more important to keep our environment intact and protect our native animals. These loggers have too much destructive power.
Please contact the Premier of NSW to stop this vandalism.
Leave Australia's national anthem alone!
You lot are completely un-Australian! Leave the bloody thing alone.
Support petition calling for change of National Anthem
The following was sent through our contact form. - JS
Please support our petition to change the national anthem.
The petition is:
Australia's current national anthem, "Advance Australia Fair" is difficult to remember, and does not inspire or unify the nation or optimise patriotism.
Many Aussies do not know the words or what they mean!
Waltzing Matilda has generated enthusiasm, and is the Aussie song chosen in celebration and in times of struggle.
Lets all embrace our heritage, our future and an anthem that is known locally and internationally as Australian.
An anthem that instills pride, strong verse in song and an anthem that has stood by Australia in peace and in times of adversity.
Sign our petition, and let's inspire our nation to be the best it can be. Waltzing Matilda is the unofficial anthem that Australians look to, and choose to sing. Waltzing Matilda is the only song that needs no prompting to bring everyone together in full voice.
Troll > Billy goat
Dear oh dear, poor old TQ does not like one liners because it's just too simple and painfully obvious that he is wrong.
Most domestic livestock were once native to some land so what is the difference if Kiwis use possum?
Everyone has an impact on the planet if you eat, wear clothes , drive a car or live in a house you are making an impact.
If you care to look around yourself right now and think deeply about the origin off all products including the computer you use that is sucking fossil fuel energy you'll realise your a hippocrite.
Your need to try and "save" something makes you feel good about yourself. This elevates you to believe you are more moral than most. Your venomous response to most blow-ins is indicative of the need to only hear from your own kind.
Poor mental health is thus apparent.
If you feel I'm wasting your time then my mission is accomplished.
Editorial comment: In future, could you please focus on the issue at hand and avoid making personal attacks?
Anyway, environmentalists are all perfectly well aware that by going about their daily lives they unintentionally cause considerable harm to the environment for reasons largely beyond their control. An obvious example is the necessity of having to rely on private motor vehicles as a result of the abysmal standards of Australian town planning.
Nevertheless, we are hardly going to be effective in mitigating the effects of others, who are enriching themselves by systematically destroying the world's environment, if we all choose to live like hermits. - JS
Koala habitat and human population expansion in Queensland
The Brisbane Courier mail carries a story today about an attempt to save koala habitat and a resulting shortfall in building of 1/4 million houses as the land is badly needed for a growing human population. There is some dispute about the mapping of the areas designated as critical koala habitat because (as I interpret the article ) of low numbers-However it is yet another clash of human expansion and the needs of native fauna. On reading the article the future for the Koala in the south east Queensland area looks pretty grim.
"Talks" in Queensland about population growth
Sunshine Coast council has received 3000 submissions in its “conversation” with residents about the region’s future planning direction. And those residents overwhelmingly support a commitment to environmental protection and rehabilitation. For every developer telling the public that "we can (and must) easily accommodate another couple of million people in the greater Brisbane area", there's an environmentalist telling saying that they "cannot (and must not) put additional pressure on our natural resources".
Sustainable Population Australia (SPA) spokesman Simon Baltais says he does not expect the State Government's growth summit or the Local Government Association of Queensland's inquiry will lead to changes. He is probably right. There is so much money and short-term benefits for developers and investors who add to Federal and State government coffers. Do the people of Queensland really want SE Qld. in 20 years to look like Southern California does today? Logically, the answer should be NO.
Anna Bligh says that population density in south-east Queensland is lower than in other parts of the country and the world, and thus Queensland should follow the trend.
With the world's population blowing out to unsustainable numbers by 2050 and be expected to out-grow the supply of food and natural resources, surely as an elected leader she should be better informed and not base her policies purely on monetary concerns. More and more people are living in crowded urban areas and mega-cities, adding to greenhouse gas emissions, water scarcity, loss of biodiversity and pollution.
Southeast Queensland councils and developers claim the protection of koalas will come at the cost of 250,000 badly needed dwellings, pushing up house prices and throwing planning for population growth into chaos. There are also complaints the maps underpinning the draft Koala Conservation Plan are highly inaccurate. (Maybe they are now just so few and far apart?) University of Queensland Professor Frank Carrick said there was plenty of development land left but if houses had to be cut to save koalas, then it would have to be done. He said that koalas may disappear in a few years. "We're not talking decades."
("Inaccurate maps protect wrong areas as koala habitat" by Sarah Vogler and Brian Williams in the Courier-Mail of 26 Feb 10)
The irony is that person who kills a koala with two slug gun pellets risks a fine of $300,000 and two years’ jail, as in the case of Doug the baby koala, but our state infrastructure planners can destroy koala habitat with apparent impunity.
A study from the Australian Sustainable Built Environment Council says greenhouse gas emissions from transport are on track to skyrocket 75 per cent within 30 years – worse than in Melbourne.
Brisbane's Lord Mayor Campbell Newman said there needed to be more federal involvement in the future growth of the state's south-east corner. He also questioned the validity of the 'Big Australia' proposal, where the national population will grow to 35 million by the middle of this century. Sunshine Coast mayor Bob Abbot - a vocal critic of over-population - agreed the federal government needed to provide more information about the benefits of Big Australia. The "benefits" will be mainly for a few elite who will have the financial resources to buffer themselves from the misery of the masses!
Anna Bligh does not have to be a victim of Federal immigration policies that she denies she has any control over.
The lure of population growth is based on short-term financial gain and ignores the long term concerns of exponential growth, which few of us really comprehend. The protection of the Australian way of life - how we enjoy living in The Lucky Country - should be of paramount concern to our leaders, not just creating a bigger tax-base!
With the creation of the Stable Population Party of Australia, the vital concern of population growth should become an election issue next November.
endangered species quolls
South East Forests NSW,Bateman's Bay....Ian Barnes,manager,ph 44726211, is responsible for half a million bats that have been camping here for hundreds, maybe thousands of years, he left 38 hectares for them,also responsible for signing off the spotted quoll who seems to be a permanent resident now that its still here 3 weeks after appearing, and as for the forest....typically trashed and full of regulatory breaches,looks like they prepped a housing estate in western Sydney...pity,the National Park is across the street.
Time for Political revolution in Australia
I was nominating myself as a candidate in the seat of Robertson based on all of the issues outlined by this new party, my chances as an independent were minimal up against the two majors. I will now be joining the SPPA and and look forward to re-uniting Australians and giving us an alternative that will speak out and give accountable debate in parliament
Documenting continued ITER hype in Russia
This comment is in response to Boris Omadin's article on plasma physics and the tradition of pretending that artificially created fusion will provide humans with unlimited energy or even a tiny little bit of energy. Boris's article is, of course, more than that, because it gives us a history of the scientific theory and unsuccessful efforts to date.
Swiss Particle Physicist, Michael Dittmar, just drew my attention to this here.
Thanks Michael.
Sheila Newman, population sociologist
home page
Victorian govt plans school merger against community wishes
Mega-merger anger. Families in Banyule, in Victoria, are angry that the State government intends to close and merge some of the local primary and secondary schools and merge them into one mega site from preps to year 12. They intend to close four local schools and the senior section of one of the primary schools.
The mega school will occupy 9.3 ha and cater for 1800 students instead of having family and child friendly community facilities close to where they live. Many families in this area are disadvantaged and don't have cars.
The Education Department has bulldozed its way through the decision making process with only token community consultation. This is the mode of operation of our State's "Planning" department! This closure is likely to cause the demise of communities, and other people condemn the idea of prep to year 12 schools.
The merger and closure of schools in the Banyule area is simply a land grab, an effort to push the population of Marvellous Melbourne towards 5 million, and give opportunities for land developers and investors - already favoured and pampered by our State government.
Heidelberg Leader Mega-merger anger - have your say
Brumby is driving Marvellous Melbourne into a depressed, overcrowded and increasingly violent society. Education, child and family welfare, conservation, infrastructure and the protection of local amenities are not priorities for our State government.
Poaching 101
So we have an 'Anonymous' blow-in contributor slagging off a few one liners without any recognition of reasoned argument - suggesting a passing troll on the turps leaving nothing but vile.
Should I bother?
Well, I offer the following response not to the above immature Troll, but to those readers following the issue and interested in a response.
So I respond to our blow-in Troll's statements (above):
Troll grunt 1: "What exactly is the problem you have with this issue TQ?"
Tigerquoll: Try reading the above comment which provides links to previous articles.
Troll grunt 2: "Fur trade, meat trade, leather trade, they are all simply the use of animal products that everyone in society makes use of."
Tigerquoll: Your claim of "everybody in society" is a generalisation within your head unless you care to provide evidence. I don't wear fur, eat wildlife meat or the skins of wildlife, so whom is this "everybody in society"? If you don't personally wear wildlife fur, eat wildlife meat, and wear wildlife skins then your credibility starts with you. Send us a photo of you all dressed up in wildlife fur and skin eating wildlife meat. It would evidence your claim!
Troll grunt 3: "Do you have any leather products in your house or on your feet? Bet you do."
I have no wildlife products in my house.
Troll grunt 4: "Your unnatural obsession with kangaroos and possums does not put you on higher moral ground."
I argue that Australia's wildlife (including all species of kangaroo and possum as well as dingo and platypus and koala for instance have an existence right to live and a habitat right to roam free within their natural home ranges.
So how do you justify "unnatural" and what basis do you have to assume "obsession" rather my arguments as being just my view?
Poaching wildlife is wrong, be it State-sanctioned or not.
Australia's wildlife have existence rights and habitat conservation rights which supercede any intimidating rights of new invaders - colonialists, migrants.
If not, then to follow your argument, then if Australia's native wildlife have no moral standing ("moral high ground") then any feral and a billion of more Chinese could argue that they have legitimate claim to Australia because they need the space and Australia is underpopulated.
Troll grunt 5: "If someone makes a dollar out of it good for them!"
Does this indicate your moral stance that if economic gain is to be made in any activity, then it is justified? Is self-interest to achieve monetray gain always justified? Pol Pot put people to work in Cambodia for economic gain. Read some history and think about your statement before replying.
Such one-liner commenters are just time wasters.
Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia
And not only that Sheila,
And not only that Sheila, but I am hearing accounts of people who worked with Repco's ecologist to protect koalas who were supposed to be paid and here it is almost 6 months later and they have still not been paid. I doubt they ever will be.
Repco lied about how much money the Tweed would make. I doubt $1 million was made let alone $30 million. In fact by the time you add up the costs of road repair, infrastructure, loss to businesses it's bound to be a dead loss.
And all just so the TV rights and video game rights of international corporations could prosper. It's all very sad and twisted.
"It’s embarrassing for Australia that we eat our own wildlife ....I’m here to tell you it’s just not right. Simply do not buy, use or eat kangaroo products”
~ Steve Irwin
Sign the most important petition ever created to help kangar
Predicts that SPPA will disappear without trace
I confidently predict that Mr Bourke’s party will sink without trace as most single-issue parties do.
Stability is the Rule. Growth is an aberration.
Stability is the Rule. Growth is an aberration.
Until the 18th century most populations in the world were stable and many had been stable for a very long time. In the case of the Polynesians and micronesians in the Pacific, it seems to have been the rule that populations remained stable for many thousands of years - perhaps as long as around 40,000 in the case of some micronesians and Australian aboriginal stock.
Western continental Europe has slowed down its population growth without incident since 1973.
Different land-use planning system (notably with different inheritance systems) that treats population growth for the cost in energy and materials that it is.
Mostly it is only the countries which inherited their systems from the anglophone countries, typically through colonisation, which are in trouble. That includes Britain, Australia, Canada and America, and India and Africa.
Our system externalises the costs and treats them as profits. Barmy system with barmy results, a barmy ideology and completely brainwashed citizens.
It is obscene that Australia pretends it has the skills to help stop overpopulation in the Pacific Islands. We only make it worse, like the British who started it.
In Japanese Pacific Islands, they try to encourage Japanese people to migrate there to keep up the populations. They are not overpopulated - except the ones that the US won during WW2.
French Pacific Islands are also not overpopulated like the ones that were colonised by the British.
The Dutch managed to overpopulate quite early and their system came from the same early origins as the British one, although the British got theirs via the Normans, who practised the viking system among nobles in France where they had come in the 9th Century. Normandy came to conform to the whole roman-based system in the 19th C along with the introduction of the Napoleonic code.
I think I probably know a lot more about this subject than most people. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but it is amazing how few actually want to know how things work - even professionals in the area, who continue the same old saw about the benign fertility transition and go round trashing perfectly good societies by privatising land as in New Guinea or Thailand, among the Karen etc.
But there is another way... as I said above.
Sheila Newman, population sociologist
home page
Copyright to the author. Please contact sheila [AT] candobetter org or the editor if you wish to make substantial reproduction or republish.
Stabilising population a futile quest
Limiting reproduction and immigration won't work. It will never happen. Anyone who thinks that without war, disease and famine the population will stabilize is living in fairyland.
Fascinating report from GP.
The detail here is fascinating. Everything I read about this rally makes me feel that the NSW government is so cocky it just doesn't think anyone or anything will bring it down - and I'm not talking about in an election. They just seem dangerously stupidly corrupt. And all their replacements operate in the same manner. The stuff about allowing spectators to perch where they could all have been wiped out by a skidding racing car is amazing. The detail about how businesses/farms are not compensated, how taxpayers are forced to fund the rally but lose their rights to it, the sloppy conduct of the police... and the council.
Clearly our society has become very disorganised with a few who have snuck their way to the 'top' taking advantage of this. The only reason they are able to do this so far is because of the culture of non-violence in this country. But as long as our governments make laws to thieve land and impose 'events' on us that cost us money and more, they will erode that social capital which they rely on to protect them.
We will become like Russia and Haiti unless we manage to reunite as a people and reorganise despite the media and the land-baron industry.
Sheila Newman, population sociologist
home page
Economic immigration costs us heavily too!
The cost of economic immigration is also high, and not proportional to population size or growth. The cost of expanding cities and urban sprawl, plus the cost of natural resources and the infrastructure that must be updated and upgraded, is not covered by the short-term benefits of economic immigration.
The States with the highest populations are not the wealthiest, and this applies to nations as well. Population growth is usually positively correlated with poverty and misery, except for the oil-producing countries but we are facing peak oil crisis, so this won't last.
Labor in Victoria wanted to pass, but failed, a growth region tax to pay for the infrastructure to support urban sprawl - for roads, power, water, public services etc. This is extortion, and vendors should not have to pay for services they will not get!
Governments get sponsorships from the growth industries, so those who reap the benefits are those legislating for continual growth!
Stable population is not about genocide
Advocating for population stability is not about endorsing deaths, poisonings, euthanasia, abortion, genocide, etc. It is about the human species learning to adapt to environmental limitations - a skill that we as a species haven't naturally acquired through evolution. Without prey, being powerful, and being on top of the food chain, means that it has always been assumed that we humans can just keep spreading across the surface of the planet - i.e. conquer new worlds, find new colonies, make new civilisations, manipulate the environment, manipulate and destroy other species, immigrate to new countries and continue to spread. However, this can't continue. With our population predicted to blow out at over 9 billion people by 2050, "sustainability" is being stretched and our environments are under stress.
There has always been money to be made by growth, and the lure of continual economic growth through population growth has made many people wealthy. However, our leaders and economists are under the illusion that growth can be forced to continue forever, and the herd can just keep growing!
We must limit our reproduction, and immigration. This is the route to population stability, not by allowing suffering or deaths from poison, or genocide!
Excellent~Good Luck ToThe Stable Population Party of Australia
I really like your point here, John - from...
* "Maintain Australia’s current refugee and humanitarian intake within this broader immigration quota.
" Yes but I would go further and ...
assess the full assimiliation cost (housing, living expenses, language, work skilling, health care, education, family support and Federally fund that cost - it is likely $500,000 per individual or more over 10 years."
... Perhaps you could send your comments to SPPA?
Best Regards...
Eastern grey guinea pigs?
It is interesting that Alcoa released a long term management plan for fluoride emissions a couple of days before this story hit the news. In this statement Alcoa declare that they are "deeply concerned by the potential for low level emissions to affect the health of any animal grazing close to the smelter and will look for further improvement opportunities". They also boast that Portland Aluminium is one of the lowest fluoride-emitting smelters in the world.
Of course no mention is made of the 49 kangaroos shot in one day last year of which 48 showed signs of fluorosis let alone the reported 200 that have been culled in recent years. Keep in mind there are only 130 kangaroos on the site (of which 90% are showing signs of fluorosis). There is also no mention in this statement of the 17 kangaroos that were shot during a study which concluded that the lesions observed were consistent with a diagnosis of fluorosis. This study by Emily Clarke was presented at a wildlife disease conference in 2003. I would suspect Alcoa knew of these findings when the study was done as fluoride expert John Hill, an Alcoa employee assisted in the study.
The discussion in this study also states that the herd of cattle Alcoa maintain around the smelter are actually there for the purpose of monitoring fluoride emissions, it then suggests that eastern grey kangaroos might be a more useful indicator species for this purpose ! Here's a link for the study.
Population stability advocates against poisoning ourselves?
Subject was: Reply to Teresa - JS
This site promotes the reduction of human beings on the planet so isn't poisoning ourselves a good thing?
What's the problem with fur, meat and leather trade?
What exactly is the problem you have with this issue TQ?
Fur trade, meat trade, leather trade, they are all simply the use of animal products that everyone in society makes use of.
Do you have any leather products in your house or on your feet? Bet you do.
Your unnatural obsession with kangaroos and possums does not put you on higher moral ground.
If someone makes a dollar out of it good for them!
Feral Kiwis downunder should check their facts, not throw stones
Colonial New Zealanders relocated Australian Brushtail Possums to New Zealand from the early 19th Century. Kiwi possum poaching currently just perpetuates the slaughter for the same reason as then - possum fur, not to eradicate them at all.
Anyone who takes exception to killing possums in large numbers (i.e the definition of 'slaughter') should be contributing alternatives. But Peter seems to be condoning the poaching practice. The numbers are not reducing, but the profiteers are. How backward!
The pent up frustrations about possums are typically Kiwi. Australians mainly get annoyed with possums only when they are in the roof space, so I assume our Peter is a feral Kiwi downunder on the South Coast.
Now would it be right to treat all ferals the way Peter suggests - an economic use?
What is the right way to remove introduced animals?
If you like to read the other contributions, you may realise that some research has been made by this author into the Kiwi problem, which a number of ethical pragmatic solutions made. It remains an avoided Kiwi ecological problem.
Offer genuine argument to solve the problem, rather than slinging mud from the hip.
Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia
Eradication using that trap?
There is no doubt that possums are a problem in New Zealand but I wouldn't condone the use of the trap they are selling. There is killing and then there is torture... and then killing. For the record Australia has attempted to find uses for rabbits and foxes in the past. In fact the authorities of the day back in 1919 resisted the release of the myxoma virus as they were worried about the rabbit meat and fur industry. Akubra used feral rabbit skins for their hats until the calicivirus was released, feral cat fur was exported until the late eighties and fox skins periodically become economically viable to export depending on the market price. Personally I don't believe any country should be exporting fur, feral or not as it just greys the issue of the fur trade and in particular the horrific fur farms in countries such as China.
Japanese minister to question Rudd over whaling threat:
After years of intimidation from Japan, idle, empty "threats" from Australia, and procrastination, it is unlikely that Japanese Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada feel in any way pressured to stop their whale slaughter. There has been too many "talks" and a total lack of commitment and seriousness given to whaling, despite Kevin Rudd's pre-election promises and bravado.
Australia is cowering to Japan's economic powers and in desperation for their "friendship"! More "talks" will just add to the hot air, and to the illusion that something is being done! Once a crime has been committed for years without being challenged, it's legality becomes de facto and this makes it harder to take action.
Japan must see Australia as a land of cowards, and this they are manipulating for their own ends. Rudd is an accomplice in Japan's whale slaughter.
Japan has been allowed to ignore Australia's whale sanctuary, our Antarctic Territory, and Kevin Rudd has given sanction to the unprofitable and cruel practice of whale harpooning.
The return of commercial whaling will see their bloody slaughter legal, justified not because of science, but for food - now that the oceans are suffering from overfishing!
Favours harvesting of feral possums in New Zealand
Subject was: Skin The Best, Pluck the Rest. - JS
Just like to point out that Brushtail Possums are a feral animal in NZ, and therefore eradication is totally warranted in my opinion. I take exception at the emotive use of the word "slaughtered", and would like to ask you what you think the solution should be? Good on the Kiwi's for finding an economic use for these pests, if only Australia would do the same with the rabbit, fox et al.
Opposing the killing of all animals is in no way a responsible attitude for a true environmentalist to have, so I feel you should research the matter further before condemning the actions of others.
With Regards
Peter (South Coast NSW)
NOISE - a modern-day plague
Quiet Tasmania's two websites are dedicated to public education about Noise issues. Both websites are presented at my own expense in the public interest for the relief of suffering.
The most common noise complaints are over barking dogs.
The most common reaction of councils to Noise and barking complaints is to substantially ignore them - regardless of the legislative empowerments that authorise them to retain the fees from the issuance of Infringement Notices. In Tasmania the penalty for each of these offences is $240.
The consequence of councils' dereliction of duty is enormous anguish, sometimes so great that home-owners have to sell up and relocate - while others in their extreme distress resort to murder.
Quiet Tasmania's main website is very comprehensive and contains good links to international Noise websites. Its address is www.quietas.net
Quiet Tasmania's supplementary website is Quiet Tasmania news. Its address is www.pebri.net
Anyone can join the Quiet Tasmania discussion group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Quiet_Tasmania/
Quiet Australia at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QuietAus/ has been long established.
The 'Quiet' series of websites is growing, particularly in the USA with Quiet Arizona at http://www.quietarizona.org and where the latest addition is Quiet Pasadena (California) which you can examine at http://www.quietpasadena.com/ while Quiet Pinellas (Florida) is coming up.
Quiet Tasmania invites your comments either here or via the many tabs scattered throughout its two websites.
Peter Bright
Hobart
Tasmania
Definition of humane?
Thanks for the comments Craig. As my article revolves around the word "humane" I probably should have defined it clearly. I was listening to a radio interview with Prof Mike Archer a couple of months ago, when challenged about the inhumane nature of the kangaroo industry his response contained similar elements to your comments. It went something like:
"Kangaroos die, joeys die, all living things die. It has been demonstrated that kangaroo joey mortality is reduced in harvested populations when compared to unharvested populations. Kangaroos do not live forever"
Everything he said made perfect sense, I couldn't fault it. The only problem was he hadn't answered the question in my opinion. Had he been asked about the possibilty of kangaroo immortality he would have hit the nail right on the head. Of course joey mortality is lower in harvested populations, there are no longer as many kangaroos sharing the same resources. Why had he avoided the question? The tactic used was one you would expect from a politician, not a scientist. But then again, it's not really a scientific argument is it. I can only assume that my definition of humane contrasts sharply with that of Prof Archer. Compassion, understanding, sympathy and empathy constitute any humane act in my opinion. Most importantly the humane act applies to the individual, not just the population. This I suspect, is the fundamental difference between my view and that of Prof Archer. It could also explain why I thought his response on the radio was totally irrelevant.
As for what happens to all the kangaroo carcasses when they die of old age.... Well I'm not convinced many of them get that far anyway. Dingoes will usually take them before they die, they do have a shared history going back a lot further than the memories of those currently managing the land.
Colonial exploitation needs to be banned
Colonial exploitation need to be banned.
Raping, pillaging and plundering undisturbed natural lands for a so-called 'food bowl' to feed Rudd's big Australia fettish, will only perpetuate the colonial exploitation of the past two centuries. Desertification needs to be undone on the lands of our colonial forefathers, not perpetuated else we end up a basket case like Noumea, with further extinctions!
Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia
Vote to Stop Urban Sprawl in Victoria
Developers seem to have had an influence on the vote for "Stop Urban Sprawl". Who else would vote otherwise?
Please add your vote to
Stop Urban Sprawl in Victoria
Thank you
Vivienne
Vote to stop urban sprawl (Melbourne)
The Premier of Victoria has a 'Share your ideas page' where people can go online and vote for or against ideas the public post there. You have to register but there is no check on your real name, if you are worried about government spying. Vivienne has put the following 'idea' up. Currently it is running at MINUS 17 or something bizarre. So try and give it a boost.
Stop Urban Sprawl
Author
:Vivienne
Date of original idea: 21st February 2010
About 70% of Victoria is already cleared and damaged. Victoria is suffering from unsustainable expansion and environmental damage. We have urban sprawl threatening fertile areas and food producing farms. Outer areas means cheaper housing, but less public transport and more cars! We are being pressed into higher density living in regions closer to Melbourne, but this is not family-friendly. Urban sprawl must stop destroying Victoria's grasslands, native vegetation and squeezing out our struggling native wildlife.
Category
: Environment
Great article on Corellas!
Another fantastic article, Scott! Love the illustration!
Very nicely researched. Very educational on birds and our attitude to them.
Anna Bligh gags population debate in parliament
MPs gagged on growth; Bligh uses numbers to shut down debate on population
Anonymous. Sunshine Coast Daily. Maroochydore, Qld.: Feb 13, 2010. pg. 12
C) Australian Provincial Newspapers 2010
AN assault on the South-East Queensland Regional Plan by Sunshine Coast MPs was cut short in Parliament when the government used its numbers to kill off debate on Thursday night.
The planning scheme, which caters for a 75% growth in the Sunshine Coast's population within 20 years, requires the council to make provision for 98,000 additional dwellings in that time, 61,500 in green field areas and 31,500 within existing urban communities.
The region's State LNP representatives expressed outrage at the government's failure to listen to feedback from existing residents concerned about the impact on the environment and the need to have infrastructure keep pace with growth.
Planning Minister Stirling Hinchliffe told the House that from 2006 to 2031, an additional 754,000 dwellings would be required to cater for the expected population growth in South-East Queensland.
But he claimed the number was not a number set by government but "an estimated projection which we need to prepare for''.
Member for Noosa Glen Elmes told the Parliament that submissions on the plan had made no difference to the government's direction, which had ignored the position of a range of Sunshine Coast community groups.
"How could we expect anything to be different?" Mr Elmes said.
"With a Labor government now more dependent for its political survival on donations from the property development industry than from its traditional labour trade union base and with a Minister captive to that same industry for whom he was a consultant and advocate before coming into this place - how could we expect other than what we have got?
"But the Minister monsters any notion of impartiality through the concept of investigation areas and sleight of hand expansions of the urban footprint to appease his constituent urban development lobby.''
They are supposedly moving
They are supposedly moving the majority of these mammals to the Monte Bello islands,which are "supposed" to be pest free,highly unlikely I think....They have only moved a small proportion of these mammals from Barrow Island,so just a gesture from Chevron oil company..Who knows what will happen to the thousands of mammals left behind at barrow island once this money spinner Gorgon project starts up....Im sure 90% of the australian public will be too concerned who will win the moronic footy at the weekend or their weekend booze up than concern for our rapidly declining beautiful wildlife...anyway..
Thanks for that Sheila. I'll
Thanks for that Sheila. I'll stay tuned.
Aime.
New Australia Party and Stable Population Party
There is another party with a small population policy, which does have a wide range of policies and which members can contribute to. It is the New Australia party. They are also looking for members. I will put up an article soon. The policies they have had which I have read quickly seem very good - better than the major parties at any rate. See below numbered comments for another comment about one of their policies on commercial indigenous fauna industry which they have modified in response to my comment. They even considered getting rid of it.
Can I also say that I think your close relative is wrong about 'taking votes away from the major parties' for two reasons:
1. All votes eventually flow to the major parties unless there is an absolute landslide, which has never happened in post-war society here. This is because of our preferential voting system, where, if the party you put first on your preferences doesn't win an outright majority, then your vote flows on to your next preference, and your next preference, and finally down to ALP or Lib, whichever you disliked least.
2. If any small parties or independents get in they will be able to balance out, with diverse opinions, the block-voting style of the ALP and the Liberals, which is what keeps democracy away from Parliament at the moment. They will be able to assist the Greens to diverge from their currently almost-mainstream look-alike position. Diversity of opinion in Parliament would also hopefully break down the media-monopoly of election information by voting down media-monopoly laws and the system which perpetuates the monopoly.
Note that the New Australia Party supports the kangaroo industry for idealistic reasons, but that I have managed to have the statement at the end about statistics not being adequate to go ahead inserted to modify their policy:
"Kangaroo - Farming kangaroos to produce Kangaroo meat rather than beef and sheep meat may have environmental benefits. Kangaroos have much lower methane output and water inputs during meat production. Kangaroo is also healthier to eat then beef or sheep, and kangaroos have a lower impact on the land. For this to work kangaroos would have to be properly farmed as opposed to hunting roaming populations which would not be sustainable on a large scale. Climate Taxes on methane producing animals may assist kangaroo farming to become economically viable - although higher fencing and other costs may make kangaroo farming unviable.
Harvesting of roaming native populations should only be continued once the statistics on kangaroo and other indigenous fauna became reliable, which is currently not the case."
Note also that the Justice for Animals Party may incorporate a small population policy; I know that one of the organisers is working on this.
Barrow Is indig animal transfer scheme question
And won't the incumbent indigenous animal populations defend their territory? (A total disaster for all.) Or is the government creating some new territory there by rehabilitating enough land?
Sheila Newman, population sociologist
Fluoride killing kangaroos - effect on humans
Without getting to the thorough medical research, one would like to ask the question:
"If poisoned kangaroos are murdered for their flesh, would it not affect humans who consume it?"
interesting article scott
Interesting article Scott, myself I've noticed much more kangaroo meat in Coles and Woloworths now, so it must be selling well otherwise they wouldn't be stocking it. I've tried it myself and it was great. To me it makes much more sense than eating beef or lamb as those animals do too much damage to the topsoil.
I don't know about the humane thing. If I'm going to eat meat then I accept that something is going to die but they are going to die anyway, no kangaroo is going to live past maybe 15 years old or so wether I eat it or not. So question what happens to all those kangaroos if we don't harvest them, they must get eaten and their carcasses cleaned up by dingoes / foxes etc.
Since they are not being bred for food I'm not causing a life to be created for me to take it and if I don't eat it its going to die anyway and on top of that they have been hunting kangaroos for a long time with government controls and the population seems ok as the quota is about 15% of population I think.
So all up I reckon if we are going to eat meat kangaroo is a pretty fair choice.
Barrow Island WA.
Threatened mammals are being airlifted from Barrow Island where the massive Gorgon gas project, West Australian Environment Minister Donna Faragher says.
Up to 500 golden bandicoots, 170 boodies, 140 spectacled hare wallabies and 140 possums would be airlifted from Barrow Island, 50km off WA's Pilbara Coast, Ms Faragher said.
Federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett gave environmental approval to the project in August last year, imposing 30 conditions on the joint venture partners involved in the $50 billion project.
Barrow Island, an A-class nature reserve, is home to the endangered flatback turtle species and a number of other endangered species endemic to the island.
Natural historian Harry Butler has worked on the island for decades, researching the species on the island and advising Chevron on environmental issues.
Ms Faragher said it was one of the biggest translocation projects ever undertaken in Australia.
The animals will be transferred to the Montebello Islands, 30km north of Barrow Island, the Cape Range National Park near Exmouth or Lorna Glen, a former pastoral station, about 800km away in central WA.
Ms Faragher said the transfer of the animals was part of an offset program managed by the Department of Environment and Conservation (DEC), funded by Chevron and linked to the environmental approvals of the Gorgon project.
"This is a fantastic opportunity to translocate animals from Barrow Island where there are currently healthy populations of about 40,000 to 60,000 golden bandicoots, 5000 boodies, up to 10,000 spectacled hare wallabies and 10,000 possums," she said.
Where can I find the policies?
I think the Stable Population Party of Australia is a great idea and one that should have been formed long ago. I'd very much like to join, but having been rather disappointed by a political party I joined 15 years ago and eventually left in disgust, I'd like to know a lot more about the party's other policies before I sign on. It's easy to start a new political party and it's relatively easy to gain ARC registration. All you need is 500 members, which considering how the two major parties treat the desires of main-stream Australians, that goal shouldn't be all that difficult to achieve, but you also need a complete set of policies that will appeal to those same main-stream citizens. The party I joined 15 years ago came about as a direct reaction to a very controversial and hastily formed policy which, along with many others, I felt very passionate about and so I quickly joined and began attending meetings. I was soon to discover that their policies towards other matters of society were either sadly wanting or missing altogether. I do hope this party has a full set of carefully thought out policies relevant to both Australians and overseas countries.
Perhaps I've missed the link, but is there somewhere I can go to read the parties policies and how they will affect me? Population sustainability is an issue that requires urgent attention and yet I fear much of the population of this great country isn't interested so long as they have sufficient income to play with their toys such as huge plasma TV sets, trail-bikes, boats, over large SUV's etc and live in low maintenance homes (which equates to more time to enjoy the toys.)
My desire is to see this new party become fully functioning and scoring points before the old Australia I once knew has been ruined beyond recovery, yet it will be a hard task to convince main-stream Aussies to jump on board. As a close relative said just yesterday when I mentioned SPPA....."It'll just be another small party which will take a few votes away from the main parties!" In other words, my relative wasn't about to contemplate joining or voting for a party until they can match blow for blow against the big two. Still, I wish the Stable Population Party of Australia all the very best and look forward to seeing them right up there fighting for our children and grand children's future against the insane policies of the growthist Liberal and Labor parties coupled to the big business developers that support the nightmare of continual expansion done purely to serve the interests of greed. I know it won't happen overnight, but if their policies are in tune with my own thinking on how I'd like to see this country in another 40 years, then they'll get my vote and may even have another member.
Cheers,
Aime.
Barrow Island WA.
The Australian Greens today slammed the decision by the Minister for Environment Peter Garrett to allow the Gorgon development to go ahead on Barrow Island, saying he is signing off on the destruction of this unique environment.
"There is no way that the environment of Barrow Island can be protected from this development - no environmental conditions can protect the environment of this Island, and it is a nonsense for Minister Garrett to hide behind such conditions. It is inevitable that the island will be degraded," said Greens Senator Rachel Siewert.
"Just today we've heard that Chevron's own environmental consultant gave them advice to locate the processing plant on shore, as the environmental impact to Barrow Island is too great."
"Barrow Island is an A- Class Nature Reserve. It has been dubbed 'Australia's Ark' for its unique range of endangered species, with 24 species and sub-species preserved on the island, many of which are extinct or endangered on mainland Australia."
"This proposal will have unacceptable environmental impacts on the terrestrial and the marine environment. It simply should not be going ahead on Barrow Island," Senator Siewert said.
"The Federal Government is once again putting resource development ahead of environmental protection. I must admit I didn't really expect the Minister for the Environment to make any other decision but to give this project the tick as he was clearly given his riding instructions when the Prime Minister announced it last week, however it is still hugely disappointing that the Minister has failed to do his job and protect this Island."
"We call on the Federal Government to require that the Gorgon development is located on the mainland," concluded Senator Siewert.
Senator Siewert is available for comment today in Broome
extinction of koalas
Koalas or forestry?
Why is Forest NSW determined to log koala habitat at Mumbulla on the far south coast?
Who has been stopping the release of DECC’s koala survey? Surely the people of Bega Valley have the right to be informed when:
- forests from Bermagui to Tathra are due to be logged despite insufficient surveys for wildlife or effect on downstream industries
- less than 3 years of saw logs are available
- the native forest woodchip market is well down with no recovery in sight
- when FNSW is losing money from this public, i.e., “free” resource, $14.4ml last financial year
- NSW Government can declared force majeur on contracts with loggers
- south eastern forests are in trouble, losing the vital diversity of species necessary for their ability to adapt to changing climatic conditions
- science clearly tells us that logging forests make them more fire prone changing from wet to dry sclerophyll types
- Tourism is growing despite the GFC and koalas are the iconic Aussie image
- it is not just koalas that are endangered or threatened in south east forests
- polls show 77% of respondents do not want native forest logging
Surely this is the perfect time for NSW to get out of virtually all native forest logging with benefits to: climate, water and wildlife?
You can find out more at www.serca-online.org, South East Region Conservation Alliance (SERCA)
Good analogy - the bus
Great analogy, Denis.
Thanks.
Link to Application to join Stable Pop Party now available
Download from here
It's a 418 kb file so I put it elsewhere so as not to hold up downloading the actual article.
RE: Indecent Treatment of a child
Dear Heather,
I completely agree on the topic of Kevin Rudd he is all talk and no action along with his ¨followers¨ IE Labor Government. I left the government sector after being diagnosed with cancer (I am all good now) and also being told I was not to have any political opinion whatsoever as it would not look good for a public servant to be backing any party even one in power!!!
I am currently studying to join the police force and I have the utmost respect for you not backing down when you have a strong belief no matter what the consequences. My main reasons for joining the police is so that I can enter ¨CPIU¨ as just before my 16th birthday I was sexually assaulted. I have since pressed charges as I am now turning 19 and even after the police have his confession of the sexual assault and also his admission of a violent assault (where he hit me and my cheek was split open) in a pre-text call I am still waiting for the charges of ¨Indecent treatment of a child¨ to be dealt to the offender. They haven't moved forward at all and still I have to be faced with what he has done to me daily. Yes counseling is an option but should justice be handed to people who have committed this offence? I mean they have my FULL statement in which the detective-sergeant made me relive the painful memories in intimate details pretty much to the effect of what colour was the sky that day, they also have the statement of a witness and THE OFFENDERS FRICKEN CONFESSION....what more proof do they want? and yet they say to me they want to get all their ducks in a row!!!! by my understanding they are already in a row if they were any more in a row it would start looking otherwise!!!!!
I was a part of a political party (not labor as I have an intense dislike to all their policies and the people in their party) in which i was trying to provide a safer life for my 9 year old sister and my future children. all I wish is that one day this world will step out of its bubble that the government wishes to keep us in and realise that we are all at risk whether we are 1 or 100 you never know who your living next to and when you find out (if ever) it may be too late.
I hope you still wish to run at the next election because i will back you no matter what!!!
Anon
About time there was a party against population growth
About time, there is going to be a political party that i strongly agree with.I thought Kevin Rudd would see how much strain our hospitals, roads, water, environment and aged care homes were being put under with high immigration. He is starting to remind me of John Howard,they are both for property developers and big business. Tony Abbott is even worse than Kevin Rudd!
How exciting! How do we join?
How exciting! How do we join such a party? Will they be campaigning for the rights of animals such as the right of wild animals to have habitat? It seems that at present development including farms is having a massive impact on the availability of our native animals to find anywhere safe.
Where I live the council wants to put in a massive dam in the most biodiverse, highest riparian conservation area where there exists koala colonies, the most platypus in the shire, wildlife corridors, over 15 endangered species of fauna, adjacent to 3 world heritage areas. Insane! Especially when you consider that dams only have a life expectancy of 50 years.
Let's hope the AJP comes into power ASAP!!!!!
Excellent article, Scott
Excellent article Scott, thank you. I think if they used the meat from joeys it would amount to about a tablespoon since human-grade meat is very small in a kangaroo (see www.nokangaroomeat.org.)
I think the letter to the editor re Little Corellas is totally appropriate in this section because it highlights Australian's inability to appreciate or even tolerate other species in their space and how we regard everything as a pest when we are the pest.
Perhaps it should be suggested to that council that they use bird scare techniques that are non-lethal instead (e.g. www.pestaway.com.au ). It's amazing how many councils are so clueless about this approach.
The Oz bus flounders on
The Oz bus is heading out into the Simpson desert on the dirt track with Rudd at the wheel. He occasionally comments to his passengers about the passing scenery but often argues with Abbott beside him about how fast the bus can go while Brown mutters away about the condition of the track ahead. They are pleased with the way the bus is handling the current rough bit. However, Abbott claims he would have set a better course while Rudd steers.
Most of the passengers admire the greenery but a few wonder what is ahead as they have heard the track takes them into the desert. They keep quiet as they still believe Rudd knows where he is going and he has enough fuel. They expect Abbott and Brown agree with that view as the front seat arguments are about what they can see ahead and how the engine is running.
Those in the front seat are too taken with espousing their views to worry about the needle creeping into the red zone on the fuel gauge. They take for granted that there are cans of spare fuel in the back. And the passengers continue to be taken for a ride. So the Oz bus flounders on in to the Simpson desert.
This analogy strikes a chord with a growing, from a small set, group of concerned and knowledgeable people. After all, irreplaceable oil, fertile soil, aquifer water, many raw materials and biodiversity functions are being used up. Much damage is being done to the terrestrial and marine eco systems. These natural goods and services are part of the declining fuel for the Oz bus (Australian civilization), even if our politicians are so focused on their agenda that they ignore that stark reality. The population at large cannot see this as the dollar sign obscures their view.
Where to download membership application for population party?
If 500 members are needed by mid March in order to register the new Party then where can we download an application?
Editorial comment: The website www.populationparty,org won't be up until the middle of March. In the meantime, I will try to obtain a PDF document to post to this site,
AJP promises to ban live animal experimentation
Subject was: Policies of the AJP
There was just one more thing that was forgotten in that article; to ban the use of live animals for experimentation and teaching in university and other laboratories.
An Afternoon with Australian Icons
Subject: Invitation to 'An Afternoon With Australian Icons" May 23rd 2010
Dear Sir / Madam,
I would like to invite you to join us for a fund raising event called "An Afternoon with Australian Icons" for our most recognised Australian Native Icon, the kangaroo. My name is Gail Browning, I am the chief organiser and I have many well known Australians such as Bob Irwin, (Steve Irwin's father), Lee Rhiannon (The Greens Party) Lynda Stoner, (Actress) Fiona Corke (Neighbours), Johnny Pace, (comedian), Mark Pearson (Animal Liberation), an Australian Bush Poet Kevin Campbell, and "The Next Step", a male tap - rap dance group, to help make this afternoon a huge success. I also have an auction and raffles to raise funds. I am a professional pianist, and I will be playing the piano, and performing my song, written for the late Steve Irwin, "A Hero's Tale".
The Date is May 23rd 2010.
The Venue is the Revesby Workers Club (RWC) 2b Brett St Revesby, NSW. (Next to Revesby train station)
The Time is 3.00pm - 6.00pm.
AIM
The aim is to raise the public's awareness of the world's worst wildlife massacre, our kangaroos. I was shocked when I read the report on the Decimation of an Icon, written and compiled by Nikki Sutterby for the Australian Society for Kangaroos in 2008.You can read this report by clicking on to the website: www.stopkangarookilling.org The sad facts of the killing of both mothers and joeys are very alarming and many animal organisations are asking for it to stop. Since 2001, kangaroo numbers have declined by 55%. The ways in which the joeys are killed are as bad as the baby seals.
Bookings
To book your tickets, please call the RWC on 9772 2100 or you can book online at www.rwc.org.au Go to home page, scroll down to "Events" , click on to "Full listing" and click the event called "Afternoon with Australian Icons" Click "Buy Tickets" which will take you to screen, click on how many tickets, press continue ,then select ticket type Then follow prompts with your credit card details. Tickets can be picked up from the RWC prior to the day or on the day.
Adults: $25
Children: $15
Pensioners: $15.
Family passes : $60, can only be made via phone. There is no limit on children. Reserved Seating, so please book early.
Thankyou, I hope we see you there for a memorable and enjoyable afternoon.
Kind Regards
Gail Browning.
www.gailbrowning.com.au
Yes, suspend immigration but go further!
Excellent news.
* I support stabilising Australia’s population at what we have now as a start.
But go further!
* Encourage a negative net migration rate until Federal and state governments demonstrate carrying capacity for what we've got (and cancel the desalination plant at Wonthaggi, and a moratorium on any new dams in Australia)
* Undertake an independent national public infrastructure audit to gauge Australia's economic, environmental and social problems tied to population existing growth, with an interim report by 30 Jun 2010 (four months time)
* "Adopt a formal national ‘population policy’ to stabilise Australia’s population at around 23 million until 2050". (I agree)
* "Maintain Australia’s current refugee and humanitarian intake within this broader immigration quota." Yes but I would go further and assess the full assimiliation cost (housing, living expenses, language, work skilling, health care, education, family support and Federally fund that cost - it is likely $500,000 per individual or more over 10 years.
* "Abolish the Baby Bonus and re-direct funds to needy families, as well as to education and training of our own workforce." (Yes, I agree)
* "Tie foreign aid wherever possible to the improvement of governance and economic and environmental sustainability, with a particular focus on women’s rights and on opportunities for couples to access family planning services." (Yes, with emphasis on Oceania - PNG, West Papua, East Timor, Pacific Islands, with quarterly performance reporting).
*Obtain and make public the statistics of all immigrants in the past 10 years in respect of their current employment status and occupation type.
*Immediately suspend the work Visa 457 scheme
* Undertake an Australian work skills need audit and reconcile this with current education programmes provided by the Federal government
And that's for starters.
Please give us contacts to object to:
This is truly dismal and a betrayal of our forests and native animals. We hear about environmental concerns, climate change, "sustainable" until it becomes to mean a justification for environmental destruction, and conservation. We have a Federal Environment Department, but there is not outrage until 4 people are killed putting in ceiling insulation! Peter Garrett has done little for the environment, except to condemn the Traveston Dam! We have a Minister for Climate Change, and State environment departments, but still the savagery and demolition continues. Jobs for loggers and short-term economic benefits are given higher priority than even old growth forests and our natural heritage.
Is there a petition to sign? Who are those in charge of allowing this demolition to continue? Peter Garrett is a complete loss!
Quoll has lost old growth home, now squatting in greasy old bus.
The quoll's still here, loggers have taken out about 2,000 acres here which the quolls obviously lived in, its now bunked in a greasy old bus.. of its own choice....the Old Growth it relied upon..IS GONE...KOALAs ARE NEXT ON THE AGENDA.....SF Bateman's Bay have just approved to logout Mumbulla SF....GOODBYE KOALAS..on the south coast..unless we do something about it...so while partaking the benefits of our lovely free country. spare a thought and maybe some time...for our year of biodiversity...2010...STOP SLAUGHTERING OUR NATIVE ANIMALS
Human blindness to human blight
Fine to post the comment as an article or under a new miscellaneous comments page, but harassing Little Corellas is relevant to what is happening to kangaroos as it shows disrespect for nature, callousness to other species, blindness to the ugliness of human impact ... etc etc.
Sheila Newman, population sociologist
Conservation of Busselton's Corellas is a topic in its own right
I think it makes more sense to post the Corellas coment as an article.
Justifications:
* It has nothing to do with the underlying kangaroo article.
* It is worthy of an article post in its own right
* This approach encourages new contributors, even if one off
* To arbitrarily post unrelated comments is a poor precedent, which will lead to a disorganised website where any comment can go anywhere.
* Miscellaneous buckets become default massive once created, bit like consolidated revenues...
Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia
Suggestion for miscellaneous comments page
Subject was: Just an observation
Rich B’s comment raises some valid points, at least “Corella mess” is natural and wholly biodegradable but the comment has no relevance to Kangaroos, Kangaroo harvest or even the broader macropod or marsupial classification so why is it posted here?
From time to time off topic comments seem to popup at random throughout the Candobetter site which is somewhat irritating and does not really do justice to the threads where they appear or the comments themselves.
Might I respectfully suggest to admin to consider creation of a miscellaneous comment page that would address this issue and also provide a starting point for new topics such as this one from the general population that still fit the broader candobetter criteria but are not wholly relevant to the threads commenced by candobetter members/regulars?
Editorial Comment: Good suggestion, thank you. See Miscellaneous comments page and 'Miscellaneous' sub menu of Topics menu. - JS.
Little Corellas in Busselton.WA
We have a hundreds of Little Corellas down on the beachfront,making a horrible mess according to all the cafe owners,and all the locals who hate having to sit in Corella mess on their personal bench overlooking the beautiful ocean.The Little Corellas are noisy little birds,that drown out the constant drumming of human noise,traffic,chatter etc..this is my letter to the local Busselton,Dunsborough mail that was published..My views may sound a bit strong..Im not really a human hater,I just despise the way our beautiful Australian animals are being treated,and expected to move aside to the ever increasing plague of humans.
Hi..Could you please publish my letter in the local paper regarding the Little Corellas..Thankyou.
I read with disgust that the local Shire is considering a cull of the local Little Corellas,
as they may pose a threat to the natural environment.What threat is this exactly?.
Why not have a cull of Humans as they are the most environmentally destructive
animal that inhabits our earth.They talk about having a Little Corella control program.
How about having a Human Being control program.
In your newspaper article one lady said "she is ashamed to take people down to the
foreshore",now I would imagine this is because of all the little Corellas that live there.
Well Im ashamed to take people to the foreshore in summer with the swarms of humanity
that leave their rubbish all over the place.If the Shire does go ahead with this cull it will
obviously cost the ratepayer alot of money.Wouldnt the Shire be better to spend that money
on the horrific Port Geographe barren wasteland tidy up which has totally ruined Busselton,or maybe
spend the money on cleaning up the roadside through the Ludlow Tuart Forest which is littered
with rubbish..and makes me feel ashamed when I take friends through there.Or how about spending
this money on getting rid of the horrendous plague of flies that swarm around Busselton during the
summer.Im sure the tourists love the Little Corellas,but the flies will surely keep the tourists away.
Leave the little Corellas alone...
SPA Victoria stall at SLF
Jill Quirk's SPA Victoria (Sustainable Population Australia) has a stall at the Sustainable Living Festival over the weekend.
They will also be supporting candobetter.org along with the Concerned Scientists for Global Population Speak Out (GPSO)
They are probably the only sane message in a welter of unsustainable recycling messages and property developer tents at the festival, so go along and give them some support.
Sheila Newman
MDB warnings
The warnings started much more than a decade ago. Probably between the two world wars. We knew about salinisation and deforestation then. In 1994 at the SPA National Conference in Melbourne, paleobotanist, Dr Mary White, (author of After the Greening, the Browning of Gondwana Land) said that collapse was on the cards if we kept growing our population.
Sheila Newman, population sociologist
Indigenous global exports?
I'm with you Search for Truth, there weren't 22 million indigenous people on the Australian continent in the late 18th century and those that were here were not preoccupied with feeding their pets or export markets. Populations estimates of the indigenous population before white settlement are one million at the most, drawing any comparison with indigenous hunting of kangaroos with the industrial-scale slaughter today is completely irrelevant. Unfortunately it is another one of those clangers often used alongside the "fact" that kangaroos numbers have exploded since the provision of artificial watering points. This in itself is a very general statement and is often casually passed off as fact in government policy, government media statements and all those with commercial self interest. How can we possibly find a "natural" solution such as kangaroo consumption to counter a very unnatural problem? Let alone export kangaroo meat as well.
Apparent lack of grey matter
I thought your article was pretty good to Scott especially the link to the petition to support the Kangaroo Harvest (online petition supporting the kangaroo harvest ). If the Kangaroo Industry continue to pump out such mindless drivel to justify their cause then eventually when even the slow witted catch on they will likely bring about their own demise.
I could not believe that they tried to draw a parallel between the miniscule impact of indigenous hunting for thousands of years with the large scale slaughter that currently goes on using modern weapons and technologies in an attempt to demonstrate sustainability. I am reasonably certain the ancient aboriginals hunted roos only for their own immediate needs and not to provide product for global markets. The inane stupidity of the clown that wrote this could only be exceeded by any pinhead gullible enough to believe it. Continued exposure of the fallibility in their justifications will achieve far more than fabricating or spreading baseless propaganda in defence of Kangaroos.
Well Done!
Great article
Very clear article exploring in detail the important concepts, especially the real situation for joeys at foot when their mothers are killed.
Rudd treats Australian values as second rate
I have had a gutful of Ruddism (hollow popularism) and his treatment of Australian values as second rate, as if he was a foreigner with disrespect.
Rudd has reneged on his 2007 election promise to send an Australian ship to monitor Japan's annual slaughter of 1000 minke, humpback and fin whales.
Rudd has reneged on his pre-election undertaking to exercise Australia's right to take Japan to the International Court of Justice over its whale hunting expeditions in the Southern Ocean. What is stopping Rudd except his bias for Japan relations ahead of Australian values?
Rudd's turning his political back on Japan's harpoon whaling in Australian Antarctic waters and letting Japan refuel in Australia is worse than irresponsible. Rudd is Japanese in his complicity.
Japan ignores Australia's whale sanctuary and condones an unprofitable, low demand and antiquainted 19th Century practice of whale harpooning, then tells international lies justifying some scientific spin that only discredits Japan's reputation.
Japan's Nippon Paper has been slaughtering Australian native forests for its immoral woodchip paper trade out of its habitat auschwitz at its Twofold Bay mill at Eden for 20 years!
How would Japan like it if Gunns wanted to woodchip its sacred Aokigahara forest around the base of Mount Fuji?
I have had a gutful of foreign exploitation and the bastards can bugger off and take that defecting hypocrite Rudd with them. Australia has no time for patsies.
Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia
The whale meat industry is becoming a mafia
Japanese cabinet decided to bring Sea Shepherd Conservation Society activist Peter Bethune back to Tokyo for an investigation that could result in criminal charges. Since when do criminals get to make decisions about another, lesser "criminal"?
Japanese whalers threatened the lives of activists by ramming and destroying the vessel, the Ady Gill. The vessel cost $3.4 million in donated money.
Already there are two Greenpeace whistle-blowers, charged with intercepting whale meat as it was being smuggled from a Japanese whaling ship to the black market, threatened with 10 years jail. The whaling industry is becoming a mafia!
Japanese Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada is ready for whaling talk with Kevin Rudd. When in Tokyo in December Mr Rudd repeated to Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama that as a last resort Australia could take international legal action against research whaling in the Southern Ocean. However, they have no right to go taking these whales, which are over 12,000km from the shores of Japan, and now is the time for "last resort" action!
Japanese officials do not regard Mr Rudd’s threatened action as having any likelihood of success.
Nothing will be achieved by more "talks" with Japan on this topic, and procrastination has allowed Japan's criminal activities to continue! Civilians and NGOs should not be doing the job of law enforcers, in a dangerous location, against Japan's massive economic and military powers.
Sea Shepherd should be reimbursed for doing the Australian Navy's job, and our government must ensure the release of Peter Buthane, and be taking action against the Japanese for their wilful ramming of the Ady Gil and slaughtering "protected" wildlife.
Joey delicacy & the head shot farce
Good review Scott.
I am half surprised that the poachers don't try to flog joey meat as a delicacy in the same vane as quail.
Roo poachers couldn't tell the difference between kangaroos species, let alone between a male and female kangaroo. I challenge all roo shooters to sit an exam to distinguish between macropod species and sexes before having their permits shooting renewed.
Few people would know let alone could distinguish between a Bridled Nail-tailed Wallaby (near extinction), Brush-tailed rock wallaby (critically endangered), a Swamp Wallaby and a Sand (Agile) Wallaby.
As for the regulated head shot requirement, I doubt few poachers would have marksmanship to shoot a kangaroo in the head at 200m, which is about as close as one could get without spooking them.
Even then, the light would be poor (when they are grazing at dawn or dusk or night) and the type of rifle and scope needed to guarrantee a headshot at that distance in that light would be prohibitively expensive.
Australian hunters tend to use the .222 or the .243 centre fire hunting rifle, which has an effective range with scope of up to 100m if a shooter has excellent vision. Beyond that one is looking at a more powerful .308 or 7.62 calibre rifle which cost over $3000 with high resolution scope. Few roo poachers would have such a weapon.
So the reality of the mandatory 'point of aim' being a head shot is a farce. The relevant law, the National code of practice (commercial and non-commercial) for the humane shooting of kangaroos and wallabies (Schedule 2) is ineffectual since it is simply not enforced.
Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia
John Marlowe's "human pathogen"
I first worried about this people populating thing in 1936 .
The years since then have proved , beyond doubt , that 50% of people are below average intelligence with respect to any intellectual endeavour one might choose .... (the footy player's response to Dick Smith and Bob Carr earlier this year is evidence of it) .
For this reason alone neither stick nor carrot will be of any use in this populating matter .... it will roll on until all sellable resources are sold , or, if we are stupid enough to demur , they come to take it .
Because of a "stick" there are now 20 million or so of them wifeless , a much larger army this time around .
Forget Iran ..... Lock up your daughters ... and wake in terror.
One shouldn't subscribe to the human pathogen
Harold may be defeatist and may lick his foes to survive into old age along with other meek whom are primitively convinced they may inherit the Earth.
If humans follow rabbits and cockroaches in plague proportions then we may have to rely on Iran to drop their new bomb. But financial carrots and sticks to encourage two child families long term is more sustainable and ethical.
One shouldn't subscribe to the human pathogen, but respect the Earth as a gift for each of us while we are here for 80 odd years each - such a short time. We should benefit from it while we grow, and then once wise, give back once we know.
Response to John Marlowe: No choice other than to join them?
John Marlow 13/2/10 is right of course ..... but .... it is worth remembering that if you can't lick 'em you'd best join 'em .... you tend to last a bit longer that way..... and also to remember that the REAL problem is built into every last one of us.
We haven't much by way of choices in managing our own hormones it seems , let alone those of 6 or 7 billion others ... and an equally promiscuous Mother Nature (Lemmings ,Rabbits ,Cockroaches etc.).
Wildlife habitat will be covered by concrete, bitumen and bricks
Dear Premier and Ministers of Queensland,
The Qld government has revealed a plan to translocate a number of Koalas from a site earmarked for development of 600 residential blocks at Narangba near the Sunshine Coast in the very near future. Due to an unhealthy relationship between developers and State governments, human population growth is being given priority over indigenous and suffering koalas, a flagship species recognised world wide.
Koala numbers are reported to be plummeting in South East Queensland and NSW. We are already famous wildlife exterminators, and the "prosperity" from population growth means that habitat is being lost under a flawed and destructive economic model.
It is apparent that the Queensland Government do not have robust policies in place to protect either the Koala or its habitat. You plan to move the animals and would prefer that they suffer due to stress and starvation rather than implement the appropriate policies to ensure their survival. Our native animals are some of the most stress-prone in the world. Why are they being moved like criminals, ferals or aliens? They should be listed as "endangered" and tightly protected!
Please stop this development-crazed phenomenon - it is all about greed and is impoverishing our country and destroying what makes our land unique and wonderful. We do not need more people in SE Queensland, or Australia. It is wrecking remnant vegetation and wildlife habitat.
Koalas are in trouble and are being devalued. They are the original and legitimate occupants of this area, and ecology, evolution and history confirms this.
Vivienne Ortega, on behalf of AWPC
Kevin Rudd is living in a post-war time-warp
Kevin Rudd, in an interview with Jon Faine, 774 ABC Melbourne 03 September 2009 said to a caller:
"You know something, I thought we had a bit of bipartisan consensus on this going back to, let me say World War Two, that this country, a nation of immigrants, will continue to be a nation of immigrants into the future".
This means that contrary to peak oil, climate change, sustainability, water, food and housing shortages, soil degradation and environmental meltdown, we must have continual immigration-driven population growth - because we must be locked into a culture of being a "nation of immigrants"!
Something that was expedient, beneficial and appropriate policy in the past does not mean we can necessarily continue the same trend that started from Colonial days. There have been many changes and challenges since 1949!
We have environmental stress, especially on our Murray Darling food bowl, developments eating up our limited fertile coastal areas, homelessness, rising costs and public opinion contrary to limitless population growth.
Those attracted to Australia due to our "skills shortages" are not guaranteed to work in their skilled area, or live where these skills are required. It is just another immigration excuse, ironically in a country with a multi-billion dollar "export" education industry.
We need leaders who are willing to face contemporary issues, with an ability to make decisions based on current situations, not be locked up in the past and too rigid to change directions.
Kevin Rudd is a 1950's time-warp, while we are now in 2010. It is time he updated his calendar and had a reality check! Global threats to our future are too numerous to mention, and the elephant in the room is our unsustainable population explosion.
Killing of animals justified by denying that they have feelings
The only way that people can kill an animal or justify the killing of an animal is to ignore the fact that it has feelings and does not want to die. If you could put yourself in the animals' place and ask yourself 'how would I feel if I was this animal right now' you wouldn't be able to hurt a single creature.
Only a hardened heart can not care about others and a hardened heart is not a happy heart.
Kangaroos are incredibly gentle and beautiful animals. It's time we let them just be and stop blaming them for problems we in fact created (soil erosion, deforestation, biodiversity loss, drought, bush fires, water/soil/air pollution). All they want is a bit of wild grass and some peace. Is that asking too much?
It is anthropocentric of us to think of animals being here for us to use. Because of this extreme view we are causing the 6th Mass Extinction of Species.
Riverina red gums get protection