Comments

Jesus s would reply to Tony 'Depart I know ye not' "The choice was yours" just as you said homelessness was a choice, not the wicked land lobby you supported, remember where i said in the Bible "As ye have judged the least of these, so shall ye be judged" nt.

Say good-bye to the middleclass, and welcome the new dawn of our Feudal lords, poor lord government administrators and the younger generations of serfs who own no land. So Its a double bind- if we cant supply new affordable homes to Gen XY, then the retail economy will shrink, as instability means less consumption as they have no where to store or put anything. A whole part of the economy 'Better Homes' not affordable homes and all the retail consumption disappears for younger generations. What? do they think, that gen Y will be happy couch surfing with their expensive portable devices?, eating on the run!, and never having a stable environment to retire too. The Boomer know that their children cant get into housing. For those with British parents and first generation Australian, Son's and daughters of ten pound POMES have become ‘Prisoner Of Megalomanic Estate Statutory’-POMES .Destined to rent forever,?their was a time in this Common wealth when being a subject gave you a right to own land in the 1950's. How did our Governor general allow the land to be sold back to her subjects at 1000 times the inflationary law of rent price in 2010. While Instead we have a weak supine governor general lacky who is costume jewellery of the old Commonwealth role and weak supine to Neoliberalism free market property scam who never rebukes extreme market greed and its land tyrants, for a fair Australia and fair go to all. Something has gone horribly wrong with this supposed Commonwealth. The Governor general has allowed greedy traitors to sell out the country to any greedy pigs that turn up and then sell it back to her subjects at 1000 times the inflationary law of rent price. It seems all those traitor Anglo's who say rid the Monarchy, have become, given up, now as the enemy's of a fair Monarchy, they are trying to rid themselves of a recent memory or ideal of a fair and just Australia under a sovereign guardian or umpire/empire. Instead we have a weak supine governor general lackey who is costume Jewry of the old Commonwealth role and weak supine to Neoliberalism free market property scam who never rebukes unfettered market greed of land tyrants for a fair Australia and fair go to all. Wasn't the role of the Governor General to monitor that land is not being banked by the likes of Delfin Mirvac et al, in order to hike prices for speculative reasons.If so the crown must protect her subjects from these corp land tyrants and must release land to those who are not of the monopoly.

Don't buy Japanese - it only perpetuate's Japan's arrogance. Back in 2000, Australia and New Zealand sought an international ruling at the International Court of Justice under United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) against Japan's fishing of Southern Bluefin Tuna in the Southern Ocean. Ridiculously, the court found that it had no jurisdiction to make binding rulings on Japan's access to high seas fisheries, and that Japan can make "its own unilateral decisions as to what to fish, and where." So Japan continued to unilaterally embarke on a three year “Experimental Fishing Program” (EFP), that...is we want the tuna and no-one is getting in our way! Last month at CITES COP15 meeting, Monaco had called for a global ban on bluefin tuna fishing by CITES, arguing despite stocks having fallen by about 85%, the organisation responsible for managing the bluefin fishery - the International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas (ICCAT) - had not implemented measures strict enough to ensure the species' survival. Australia voted against the ban, supporting Japan. ICCAT is due to meet on the bluefin issue on 14 June 2010 in Madrid Spain. Meanwhile, in the Southern Ocean, the Commission for the Conservation of Southern Bluefin Tuna is a voluntary fishery management group comprised of Australia, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea and the Philippines as a formal cooperating non-member. Much of the Southern Bluefin Tuna catch ends up in Japan where it is prized as sushi and sushimi. Australia's tuna fishing industry is based in Port Lincoln in South Australia. Japanese, Korean, Indonesian and Taiwanese Bluefin tuna fleets use long line fishing which results in the incidental deaths of thousands of seabirds, particularly petrels and albatross. For over 20 years Japan has plundered the Southern Bluefin Tuna Fishery under its unilaterally imposed 'Experimental Fishing Program (EFP)', similar in deception as 'Japanese scientific whaling'. According to Humane Society International, the Scientific Committee to the Commission has estimated the SBT population is at a mere 3-8% of its pre-exploitation biomass. It is time to boycott Japanese sushi, sushimi, restaurants and indeed all Japanese products, until Japan's arrogant poaching of marine life is stopped. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

Congratulations Sheila. The phones were really busy and hard to get through. Steve Bracks was trying to convince us that living standards could IMPROVE with more people and improved sustainability. These people live in their wealth and really have no understanding of rising costs, housing shortages, mortgage stress and are basically environmentally illiterate. The arguments FOR limitless growth were purely economic. Of course, we have made some improvements in living sustainably, and people are more conscience of recycling and water usage etc, but they ignore the fact of global population blowout and the fact that food and water resources will have trouble keeping up to demands. A global problem should be faced globally and locally, and we don't have to be part of the problem.

Population and land-use planning sociologist, Sheila Newman, will be talking population with former Victorian Premier, Steve Bracks, on Jon Faine's show 3LO (774) for one hour (including talkback) from 11am to 12.00 hrs on Monday 19th. Comments will be sought from the Business Council and others during the program and Jon Faine is known to support growth. (This is a Victorian Program but it can be accessed on-line from anywhere: http://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/includes/winstream.asx or http://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/includes/realstream.ram) (Sheila Newman is a writer and editor at http://candobetter.org and author/editor of The Final Energy Crisis, 2nd Edition, Pluto Press, UK, 2008.)

Will Melbourne still be marvellous in 2050? Conversations about population growth Promo follows: You are invited to an important discussion focussed on the very topical subject of population growth. A small panel of informed commentators with discuss the issues and open up the floor for questions and commentary. Will Melbourne still be marvellous in 2050? Conversations about population growth Australia's population growth will mainly be in urban areas with Melbourne estimated at seven to eight million by 2050. Many argue it's sustainable, desirable and inevitable, many disagree. Prominent commentators will discuss the numerous pros and cons of predicted population growth. Come along and have your say. Date: Thursday 22 April 2010 Time: 6pm to 8pm. Entry from 5.30pm – arrive early to ensure a seat. Venue: BMW Edge Federation Square, Cnr Swanston and Flinders Streets, Melbourne FREE ENTRY – NO BOOKINGS The event willl be filmed for presentation through an internet TV site SlowTV the following week. Mr Charles Berger - Director of Strategic Ideas, Australian Conservation Foundation, Melbourne Mr Saul Eslake – Economist and Program Director, Productivitty Growth, Grattan Institute, Melbourne Ms Maurene Horder – CEO The Migration Institute of Australia Limited, Sydney Mr Mark O’Connor - Author, Poet and Environmentalist, Canberra Dr Marcus Spiller - Planner and Urban Economist, Founding Director, SGS Economics and Planning, Melbourne Moderator: Mr Peter Mares - Journalist and Presenter, The National Interest, ABC Radio National Introduction and welcome: Cr Peter Clarke – Chair Planning Committee, Melbourne City Council The City of Melbourne is especially interested in this important topic because of the unprecedented growth and change in Melbourne over the past 15 years. The City of Melbourne is working to ensure that our continued growth is well designed and well managed; making sure that Melbourne remains one of the world's most liveable cities. - Cr Peter Clarke thatsmelbourne.com.au | T 9658 9658

THE Australian-born family will be a minority social group in 15 years, according to new research by demographic consultants Macroplan Australia. Soaring immigration and an ageing population mean that migrant families will outnumber Australian-born residents by 2025. The population debate is not about "racism" but about our unsustainable swelling numbers - driven mainly by immigration. The "racism" argument is a clever ploy being used by pro-growth advocates to stop us commenting on our runaway population growth by being embarrassed. We should be addressing this global problem with local action, not be part of the problem. Our wealth is from mining and agriculture, but governments have developed unhealthy relationship with land-developers and other pro-growth industries - all for more taxes and revenues and commercial profits. Government decisions are being based on benefits for the banking, building industries, mass markets and a bigger tax base, not for the interests of Australians. Already our Australian identity is being covered by layers and layers of cultures with each round of immigration so that we will become just a generic, unanimous, boring place to live of sprawling cities and road networks. MacroPlan are hardly going to offer objective, indifferent results to their predictions or research! According to their website, Macroplan offers an array of "professional services including retail analysis, market and consumer research, property portfolio strategy, development feasibility, strategic, statutory and community planning, property economics, policy research and industrial land analysis". "As leaders in the property market, MacroPlan provides thought leadership to the industry, through regular presentations identifying future trends and scenarios, and strategic direction in relation to major industry trends, including planning advice for major industry participants". Macroplan Australia represents the pro-growth lobby, along with Bernard Salt, the Lowy Institute, and the Property Council of Australia.

As I keep saying these circumstances are so bizarre and counter-intuitive that it actually requires careful thought to understand why they do it. In a rational economy, it would surely not be in anyone's interests, whether rich or poor to continue increasing the numbers amongst which the available wealth would need to be divided. However we know that, contrary to what common sense and intuition would tell us, in Australia's land-speculation-based basket-case economy population growth, instead, makes some Australians richer. So it can only stand to reason that the poor are doubly, if not threefold poorer:
  • Poorer because of the transfer of wealth out of their pockets into the pockets of the rich, caused by higher charges for housing and other resources.
  • Poorer because the wealth remaining after the rich have taken their greater share must be must be shared amongst an even large group of people;
  • Poorer because of the diseconomies of scale that cause the cost of providing a service per capita goes up rather than down after a certain optimum population has been reached.
  • Poorer because what economies of scale, which would be possible through natural monopolies, are thrown away because free market dogma demands that Governments provide only the barest minimum of services themselves and leave the rest to the market.
I have written more of this in my Online Opinion article "How the growth lobby threatens Australia's future" of 9 February 2008 also published on candobetter. This is also discussed here on a miscellanous comments page on 27 Apr 10.

The only similarity between possums in New Zealand and rabbits in Australia is that both were introduced deliberately. In NZ you have an animal that was released into a "furless" country in order to establish a fur trade and the fur industry itself still benefits from that deliberate act it committed years ago. They are no more interested in New Zealand's biodiversity as they are in the eradication of the possum as awareness of either of these issues is bad for business. In Australia the rabbit was successfully introduced (after many failed attempts) in order to provide fresh meat and target practice for the good English gentlemen. The rest is history..... very depressing history. The common denominator here is obvious. How can you we determine "the right species in the right place" when this rule obviously doesn't apply to ourselves? Goats and pigs are examples of introduced animals in Australia that undoubtedly are damaging our environment yet many landholders do not seek to eradicate them as their meat provides a valuable source of supplementary income. This scenario appears to have more in common with the status of possums in NZ than the examples you have put forward.

I read this in a dicussion forum about saving Milton from the threat of high-rise:

I'm a property investor and small-scale developer (very small!), and I confess I am usually pro-development and judge that most complaints about development are NIMBYism, or just people wanting no change at all. :o But when I read that the plan for this site was for THIRTY ONE stories, I had to join your group. I had assumed they were planning three or four stories - perhaps six at a stretch! But 31 stories is plainly going to be out of keeping with the character of the area and I pray for your success in opposing such a large-scale development.

My response was:

Thank you for stating your support, [Suzanne]. I am glad to hear that, at least, because of the scale of this ghastly planned edifice, you have been moved to come out in support of your local community.

Nevertheless, in truth, it is my opinion your occupation is not one that actually adds to the prosperity of this country.

That said, I know many people face no choice but to derive incomes in ways they would prefer not to (and that includes even a number of my own close friends, by the way) and many, like yourself, no doubt, are caring people of good will.

However, the fact remains that property investment is inherently about one group of people monopolising a resource that the rest of us require in order to be able to live a decent dignified existence, that resource being shelter.

It is self evident that the windfall profits of property speculators of past decades are being paid for by the impoverishment of hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens who have no choice but to rent.

Our economy's direction has to be changed so that all of us can be give an opportunity to not have to derive our income at the expense of others.

The footage obtained of John Kelly's possum abbatoir is available here. Remember Kelly is the head of the Kangaroo Industry in Australia and also proclaims to be an expert in animal welfare.

Editorial comment: I have embedded the video below. YouTube warns:

This video may contain content that is inappropriate for some users, as flagged by YouTube's user community.

There are many similarities between the NZ possum "industry" being based on an introduced species that "escapes" and rabbits in OZ being killed by introduced pests and diseases ... not forgetting (and we should NEVER forget) the koala killing where quite literally millions of koalas were similarly killed in OZ ... sure it was in hard times and the koalas were used for good purposes ... quite possibly because they were easier and/or in some places, more prevalent than possums. Introduced species can become pests ... and when they do, they do need to be either reduced sufficiently (the likely if not inevitable outcome) or extinguished which has proved almost impossible with established pest species. The tragedy is that we as humans are too easily able to send the vulnerable species extinct while at the same time we or some of us feel disturbed or even guilty about killing off other species that are in the wrong place. It isn't as if the possums are globally rare or endangered ... and probably won't be reduced to that level in NZ. Once it becomes uneconomic due to scarcity, the industry may take up captive breeding ... or it too will die. That is what saved the koalas ... but then it is worth also considering whales and whaling ...! The right species in the right place ...

Part of the objections to killing may lie in the stigmatisation of any animal as a 'pest'. I think it contaminates the treatment of every member of a species, some of which, of course, are within their natural habitat or fighting to stay alive in a human-impacted habitat. (Who is the pest, eh?) It's bad enough to kill an animal without insulting its right to exist. Perhaps the biggest problem is the absence of reverent ritual in the killing of food in 'modern' Oz and NZ societies. The official attitude is neither reverent nor hateful; it is a denial of the food (or fur) animal's having feelings, family, life, even if smaller and less important appearing than that of our own species. We practice this denial of emotions and our own violence or simply our own food needs in our industrialised systems because the scale of killing is always so outrageous that we would gag at the mere thought of it, if we weren't trained not to think of it. A possum-fur trade is no doubt a boon to someone who needs a new way to make a living. When you think that humans probably chased some of the last mammoths and sabre-tooths over cliffs whilst waving fire brands and left them to rot at the bottom. Is there any right to this matter? I think it may lie in ritual and respect, modest appetites, smaller scale operations and lower land-costs so that we all don't have to do 8 hours a day of stuff that disgusts us in order to survive. I won't put my name to this either; it's too unresolved.

I keep feeling that Rudd is actually the father in Christina Stead's Man who loved children - a remarkable novel about a man who forced children on his wife because he found them useful for self-promotion. His wife can't stand him and is half-mad because of him and dies of exhaustion or some such before the end. (I guess his wife was Australia.)

Of course I feel that Rudd and other men in charge (aren't most of them men, of course - what woman would force population growth on us without the influence of men) are like a big bullying father who wants to be important at his wife and family's expense.

I would like to read the book again. I was surprised to find that it was listed by ?Time as one of one hundred best books in the world, although I know that I couldn't put it down, years ago, when I read it.

The reason I would like to read it again is to see whether it really does provide a metaphor for overpopulation. It is actually set in New York in the 1930s.

Marvellous book. By a woman. Could that be the reason it's not on every school syllabus? Or is it considered controversial?

I just posted this comment to a Westside News story HAVE YOUR SAY: Tussle over Milton tower project:
The solution is much simpler. Residents must be given the right to vote against any development they don't want. In November Floridian voters will be able to vote for just such a law. See "Amendment 4 hot issue for November" of 9 Jana 2010 at http://tinyurl.com/y67dpte (Also published on candobetter here.) Once this becomes law, there is no way that any Floridian politicians in the pockets of developers will be able to ram through development proposals in the way that Hinchliffe is attempting to.

Rudd actually wants perpetual population growth, although he'd never come out and say it. Not Big Australia, but Infinite Australia. Since politicians and business leaders never want to stabilize the population (although they always promise it'll happen sometimes in the undefined future) I've been trying to work out (a) how big the population will get to before it stabilizes, and (b) what will cause it to stabilize. My guesses are: (a) 100 million+ (b) Something extremely unpleasant

Thanks for those details and names, Scott. The world needs to have a record of the perpetrators. In the fish and chips news, names and places are all too soon forgotten and dispersed.

Subject was: a little simplistic? - JS You have somehow confused the culling of possums with the killing of endangered wildlife. Possums are not endangered and they are a pest animal in N.Z . The Govt of N.Z has limited funds for animal control and thus private enterprise is at least one way of limiting possum numbers. Goats, pigs and rabbits are also culled in various numbers - some for profit - do you suggest N.Z stop this also? The comment that ALL possums should be removed from N.Z is a little naive - just how do you propose to remove every possum from a country as diverse in ecology and habitat as N.Z?. Let me point out - that plenty of people would like to do just that. It's simply not possible. And your antiquated 'noble savage' references regarding the Maori would be offensive if they weren't so transparent and badly researched. Perhaps your argument and your philosophy would have some merit if it were a considered one - rather than a hysterical rant more suited to 'A current affair'. The reality is that the wholesale banning of the N.Z possum fur trade would only be detrimental to the environment. Surely it is the less of two evils?. Personally, I believe that EVERY feral animal in any country is fair game - cats, pigs, goats, rats, horses etc etc ... Possums may be cute, so are rabbits I guess - but at the end of the day their effects on the environment are to destructive to ignore. I agree that wanton cruelty is wrong irrespective of the goal - but most professional hunters are just that - professional. And before you slam people for leaving "anonymous" comments - you might consider that writing under a pseudonym is essentially the same thing. Take care. Editorial comment: We have no objection to anyone using a pseudonym or posting anonymously. - JS

Kangaroos are bigger than most wildlife in Australia. Maybe it is their size, some comparable to humans, that intimidates these morons. There are few animals as hard-hearted and sadistic as human beings! Kangaroos are seen as a threat, as a competitor, of being capable of "boxing", an ideal victim for perpetrators of violence. With official opinions classing them as a "pest", what hope is there of low-lifes grasping the concept of their value if millions are slaughtered each year? They are no considered as more than rats, easily tortured, maimed, killed and made to suffer for entertainment. Society's attitudes to these gentle and charming creatures is based on ignorance, economics and is evil.

The facade of "scientific research" is one our Federal Government has blindly accepted, along with the IWC. We all know the illegal slaughter of whales has nothing to do with science, and data about whales comes from living whales, not dead ones! However, our leaders have blindly continued to accept the charade. Japan must think we in the West are really stupid! They can just pull the wool over or eyes, invade our Antarctic territory, kill whales in a whale "sanctuary" and ignore the Antarctic Treaty with impunity. Japan has used its growing economic power to build the second most advanced military force in the world. Throughout this period Japan has been able to keep its defence expenditure around or below one percent of gross national product. Hence Japan's increasing economic power has allowed it to rapidly increase its military power without causing cut backs in other areas. Japan is now in the enviable position of spending a larger amount on defence than every other state bar the U.S. with a relatively smaller drain on its economy. Peter Buthane may spend 15 years in prison, along with the whistleblowers who exposed the black market whale meat trade, yet the illegal whale slaughters continue to profit from the banned whale meat! They have been able to impose their culture, their audacity, their cruelty and their illegal slaughter on protected marine wildlife without being challenged!

Subject was: Brilliant! - JS

Brilliant!

Editorial comment: The article I think Shad was referring to is Economic sinews. In part, it is about how micro-credit facilities set up to help poor farmers in third world countries are being bought out by financial institutions and are becoming less and less different from other profit gouging financial institutions. I posted the following comment to that article:

You should read Ellen Brown’s The Web of Debt. The critical point about money is that it has no inherent value, It is nothing more than a means to exchange goods and services. The book provides a few examples of when governments created money as a service to the people. Provided they were careful to create just as much money as the availability of goods and services warranted, the economies worked very well.

This is how the American colonies functioned in the early 18th century. However the bankers in Britain got the British Parliament to outlaw that and force the colonies to borrow money from them. This caused economic crises and led to the war of Independence.

In spite of them winning their independence from Britain, private bankers managed over the ensuing decades to mould the American political leaders to do their bidding and to dispense those who would not such as Lincoln.

Thank you for publicising this outrage. There is so much pain. It is coming faster and faster, too fast for citizens to respond. Every little bit of protest helps.

This is the downstream consequence of the Rudd Gates. We have 300,000 net immigration every year now. That's another full Sunshine Coast population every year.
It is state-sanctioned invasion. Why did we have wars to stop the domino theory, when we now have Rudd?

Click this link, then when it opens click it again to enlarge...(this is Shanghai):
Rudd's China Vision for a Big Urban Australia

Am I wrong, or is this real estate development stretching into bushland and part of the carve up of Defence land sell off of nearby Enoggera Army Barracks?

It was at Enoggera that the AIF trained for the Gallipoli Campaign in The Great War.

"Gallipoli Barracks is the most significant Army barracks in South East Queensland. The land on which Gallipoli Barracks is situated was purchased in 1908 for the establishment and training of Defence units. Development during the period 1910-1921 included the construction of a rifle range, ordnance facilities, a school of musketry, artillery facilities, hospital, ammunition depot, depot for remount horses and camp facilities for citizen forces."

Gallipoli Barracks is the home of Australia's oldest Regular Army unit, the 2nd/14th Light Horse Regiment, dating back to 1860.

In response to the above comment: 'Where did statistic of 75% flora and fauna destroyed come from'?

Good question. Go to the Australian Bureau of Statistics webpage

[Note: The ABS frequently changes its referencing so this link may only be temporary]

scroll down to...
A LONGER TERM VIEW

"Declines in wildlife have occurred in most parts of Australia since European colonisation. Over the past 200 years 17 mammal species are thought to have become extinct here. Fewer than 25 species are believed to have become extinct in the rest of the world over the same period, which means that Australia accounts for over 40% of the world's mammalian extinctions since 1800-10 Some other mammals, once widespread, now survive only in tiny areas (often islands free of foxes and cats); this isolation and loss of genetic diversity make species less adaptable and more vulnerable to threats such as disease.

Intensive land use, which has played a part in the decline, has been concentrated in the south and east of the country. Habitat loss, through cropping, grazing, forestry, mining and human settlements, has dramatically changed vegetation cover. The 1996 State of the Environment report assessed that since 1788:

* over 40% of forests had been cleared;
* more than 60% of coastal wetlands in southern and eastern Australia had been lost;
* about 75% of rainforests had been cleared;
* almost 90% of temperate woodlands and mallee had been cleared; and
* more than 99% of temperate lowland grasslands in south-eastern Australia had been lost.

[the net average exceeds 75% of Australia]

Wildlife has declined in northern and central Australia too, where the level of land clearing has been lower. In the arid zone, about one-third of mammal species are regionally extinct, the highest extinction rate on the Australian mainland, and many birds are declining. The extent of cattle grazing, effects of invasive species and changes to fire regimes are factors thought to have led to a decline in many animal species in these areas.

Seventeen species of mammals (and another 10 subspecies) are listed by the Commonwealth as presumed extinct in Australia since 1788. Ten of these species were last seen alive in the twentieth century, ten of these animals are marsupials, and 14 of them were found predominantly in the inland arid zone."

===================================

The following are also informative on this issue:

Facts About Land Clearing in Australia

"Land clearing is the permanent destruction of native vegetation and its replacement with agricultural, urban or other land uses.

* Australia has the fifth highest rate of land clearing in the world. We clear more bush each year than poverty-stricken countries like Burma, Mexico, Zimbabwe, Nigeria and the Congo.
* Australia clears land at the massive rate of over half a million hectares a year.

* The rate of land clearing is accelerating. As much land has been cleared in the last 50 years, as was cleared in the previous 150 years.

* Woodlands are Australia's most threatened, and least protected, wooded ecosystem.

* 85% of all land clearing in Australia happens in Queensland. Victoria has lost more native vegetation than any other state, and Tasmania has the highest clearing rate in proportion to the State's total land area.

* For every tree planted, 100 are bulldozed!"

[Source: Australian Conservation Foundation]
=========================================

Australia one of worst animal destroyers

"THE earth is experiencing its sixth great extinction and Australia, along with its Pacific neighbours, is in danger of perpetuating its record as one of the worst destroyers of animal and plant species, a study by leading environmental scientists has found.

Based on a review of 24,000 scientific papers, the study published today in the journal Conservation Biology finds that land clearing and overlogging are among the greatest threats to land-based creatures and plants in the Oceania region.

Since records began, Australian agriculture has changed or destroyed half the woodlands and forests of the country. More than two-thirds of the remaining forest has been degraded by logging.

The study finds that throughout Oceania more than 1200 bird species have become extinct and climate change is threatening to worsen the crisis.

‘‘Our region has the notorious distinction of having possibly the worst extinction record on earth,’’ said Richard Kingsford, professor of environmental science at the University of NSW and one of the 14 authors of the study.

‘‘This is predicted to continue without serious changes to the way we conserve our environment,’’ he said, noting that half of Australia’s mammal extinctions were directly or indirectly caused by humans.

This year, the white lemuroid possum, which lives at high altitudes in Queensland’s tropical northern rainforest, was identified as being in extreme decline.

‘‘The lemuroid possum has shown itself to be particularly sensitive to rising temperatures and may face extinction if we cannot reverse these trends,’’ reported John Williams of James Cook University.

Some ecologists see the white possum as similar to the polar bear, a symbol of the threat posed by climate change.

The study comes as WWF raised the alarm over figures showing Australia lost 300,000 hectares to land clearing in the year to 2007, the latest available statistics. This was the equivalent of clearing about 5 million suburban house blocks, Nick Heath of WWF told the Herald.

Queensland had the worst record, clearing an area equal to the land mass of the Australian Capital Territory.

It was the last year of the state’s policy of allowing broad-scale land clearing and its record dwarfed that of the other states combined.

WWF estimated that 20 million birds, reptiles and mammals would have died as a result of the clearing.

The authors are calling on governments in Australia and the Pacific to act urgently to halt the rising extinctions. Along with land clearing, logging and climate change, the threats include exotic diseases, pollution, overfishing and the introduction of foreign plants and animals."

[Australia One of the Worst Animal Destroyers, by Marian Wilkinson, Environment Editor, 29-Jul-09]

So, there are climate deniers and no doubt, land clearing deniers and extinction deniers.
The best thing Australians could do in this International Year of Biodiversity to save our wildlife is to call for Peter Garrett's dismissal as a woeful Environment Minister and not vote either Labour or Liberal at the federal and state elections.

Meanwhile, how's the land clearing in New Zealand?

Check out:

1. Wikipedia

2. Native Forest Action

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

Since the arrival of the First Fleet in 1788, 125 plant and animal species have become extinct in Australia. We have lost 75% of our rainforests (NPWS, 1997) and 7% of known mammal species, making Australia the world's worst continent for mammal extinction rates. Clearing for agriculture has been the main cause for the decline in rainforest habitat during the last 200 years. It is now estimated that Australia has lost 75% of its rainforest area since then.

Our population growth rate is about 2.1%. This means that we are on route to DOUBLE our present numbers to over 44 million by 2045 and keep growing. We will have OVER 50 million by 2050. To keep the numbers "down" to the forecasted 36 million will require manipulation of the present manufactured rate of growth. Most of our population growth (over 60%) is from immigration - and not "natural". However, when considering the numbers of people invited to live here, at least the same proportion of "natural" births must come from immigrated parents! If our population can be kept "down" to 36 million by 2050, then why not start now? What about after 2050? The greed of our present generation is totally forgetting and ignoring the next generation who will find Australia with few wildlife, few or no old-growth forests, no intact ecosystems, the "bush" gone, and with an overlay of climate change, our landscape will be compromised forever! Additionally, our culture will be fragmented totally and homogenised and "diversified", and only the privileged will have a home with land to call their own. The only animals will be livestock - also homogenised in monocultures! A few centuries of unprecedented explosion in human numbers and surging inequitable consumption are needlessly destroying our planet and resources- and eradicating indigenous species. Few people understand exponential growth. How will the tsunami of population growth be stemmed after 2050?

The right of endangered species to exist must morally supercede any human choice to practice nostalgic culture that may threaten the survival of that species. To do otherwise is inhuman arrogance beyond Hitler’s final solution. Think about it; Hitler only sought to exterminate a few races, not the entire species! Now in the 21st Century, humans of all traditions with access to modern lifestyles, supermarkets, medicine and technology, anyone choosing to engage in nostalgic traditional human cultures to the detriment of nonhuman species is depraved arrogance that deserves condemnation. Killing wildlife is wrong and completely unnecessary to sustain a human family from starvation. Woolies and Coles are just up the road. Inhumane slaughter is wrong and unnecessary to humans and nonhumans. The dugongs and green sea turtles need to be respected as scarce creatures surviving human wildlife holocaust over the past centuries. Australian Aboriginal claims of Native Title to land is one thing. But claims of rights to drive these species to extinction is an abomination - worse than Hitler's final solution. Wildlife persecution for what any human excuse must cease if it is to survive at all. Give me a rifle and I shall justly shoot anyone trying to kill wildlife. Bugger such cultural excuses. Any Aboriginal culture that seeks to kill endangered Australian wildlife is backward and barbaric and should attract the same criminal punishment as killing humans, if not more, given humans are not close to genocide or speciescide. Endangered species morally supercedes nostalgic choice culture. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

I feel there is an Ostrich type mentality apparent here, evidenced in a failure to appreciate the reality of economics in Australia today. An awareness of cultural relativism, that is the entitlement of all cultures to be practiced, an inherent objective of multiculturalism, also seems to have been dismissed. Both these aspects need to be acknowledged and accepted as underpinning life in Australia, as it will unfold as we progress through this century. “Economies overrule culture” Paul Keating 1997. Localism as expressed in “our country our rules, etc”, is naivety [redneck?] in relation to the path that economics will/is setting for Australians. This path will most decidedly require acceptance of cultural relativism. The European Union is an example to appreciate our future in the vision that is the Asian Pacific Union, already announced by our Prime Minister. Such visionary unions establish the free movement of both people and capital, throughout the region, as well as entitlement to the same rights as citizens, and access to facilities for all. Localism has no place here, and cultural practices such as TCM/culinary will be relocated in this movement of people. There may be an overlay type sentiment against this coming union and benefits, remaining from previous generations here, but, and not wishing to be politically incorrect, consumerist and feminisation attitudes have supplanted any real foundation for avoidance. And, there is no point putting ones head in the sand as a means to avoid this outcome. No one should deny that the availability of Australian resources can provide the prospects for an improvement in lifestyle to many more people in our region. I remain with the position that many TCM/culinary practices, extended to include harvesting of our native species, will become a norm in the Australia that is looming before us. As a side note, I do not think some of the disparaging comments on Mao are fully correct. When the revolutionary movent captured the state power in 1948 the Chinese people reportedly numbered around five hundred millions. But there was no programme for massive increase, it was largely that limitation was not canvassed. It may be that some overpopulation has resulted in China [many years after the passing of Mao] as well as elsewhere in South Asia, but a further positive for the Asian Union concept will see a more even spread of people, and therefore better environment balance.

THE RSPCA says indigenous hunting methods for dugongs and green sea turtles are inhumane and is urging the federal government to stamp out cruelty in hunting methods. Under the Native Title Act 1993, native title holders can legally hunt dugongs and green turtles for personal, domestic or non-commercial communal needs. However, there is evidence that the meat used in a black market trade. Traditional hunting does not mean the use of firearms either! The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority (GBRMPA) "works to protect marine animal species that are threatened, iconic or at risk. By identifying the threats to the survival of these animals the GBRMPA can develop appropriate management actions". However, indigenous people are allowed to slice off the fins of turtles while they are still alive, and hunt endangered dugongs! The world's largest sea turtle has been placed on Australia's threatened species list by the federal government. The leatherback turtle, previously classified as vulnerable, is now considered to be an endangered species. "The uplisting is mainly due to the ongoing threats the turtle faces from unsustainable harvesting of egg and meat and pressures . it is high time these animals were afforded strong protection and should not be allowed to be slaughtered - especially as described above - under the guise of " traditional hunting practices." Under the IUCN Criteria for Threatened Species, the Green Turtle (Chelonia mydas) is listed as ENDANGERED - this means that a 50% reduction in their population has occurred over the last 10 years or in three generations. The Dugong (Dugong dugon) is listed as CRITICALLY ENDANGERED - meaning that they face a high rate of extinction in the immediate future. Both the Green Turtle and Dugong MUST be afforded IMMEDIATE protection. All wildlife should be protected - from indigenous and non-indigenous hunting, black markets and cruelty. The suffering and abuse of animals can't be justified, and transcends race or customs. There is not justification for animal abuse, torture, or mutilations and the laws that protect animals should be universal.

Big ((Hugs)) & many thanks from a Aussie fauna & flora lover in Texas USA - with all the horrific evils going on worldwide, this story sure brightens my spirits- Thanks again for all you care-takers do

You make it very clear John. Population growth is turning Australia into a third world colony dominated by a small crass moneyed class. It should be obvious to everyone, but maybe people just don't believe their own eyes and pockets until they can see that they are not alone in their perception. Population growth drives scarcity, inflation and makes the people who own the assets and the means of production rich and powerful, but it makes everyone else - and the planet - poor. What is more, to get where we are going, we have to lose all our democracy.

Human Development Index: 2009 In order: Norway Iceland Australia Canada = Luxembourg=Sweden Switzerland Ireland Belgium United States Netherland=Japan=Denmark=Finland UK France Austria .... Niger Countries high on the Human Development Index tend to have annual population growth rates of 1 percent or less, high urban population percentages (65 percent and up) and balanced percentages of people under 15 and over 65 years of age. The new estimates indicate that the global population will reach seven billion by 2012 and nine billion in 2050. As per the new estimates, half of the world’s projected population growth from 2010 to 2050 will take place in nine countries – Bangladesh, China, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ethiopia, India, Nigeria, Pakistan and the US. Those low on the index tend to have annual population growth rates of 1.5 percent or higher, less than 35 percent of the population in urban areas, and an under-15 population that greatly outnumbers those above 65 years (in most cases, more than 10 times as many.) If global trends are significant, we can expect to be bigger and poorer in a super-sized Australia. The USA seems to defying the trends! However, there may be some hidden statistics?

Hospitals: bed numbers Mr D. DAVIS (Southern Metropolitan) — "My adjournment matter is for the Minister for Health, and it concerns the number of hospital beds in Victoria. We are at an interesting point in the debate on health care in our state and our nation. The Prime Minister has put forward a proposal which seeks to take a higher level of control of the health system in Victoria, and the Premier has put an alternative proposal. There seems to be a serious situation where a large ingredient is missing from both proposals, and that concerns the need for greater numbers of hospital beds. We have seen over the period of this government the number of hospital beds decline, as best it can be worked out. We know the government has been secretive and determined to hold back on the bed numbers and the spread of beds in Victoria — where they are actually positioned in different hospitals and the type and nature of each bed around the state. We also know that Productivity Commission data, the recent report on government services and the commonwealth Department of Health and Ageing’s report on the state of our hospitals shows that Victoria has the lowest number of public hospital beds per 1000 of population. At 2.3 it is clearly the lowest of any state. It is no wonder that we have serious problems in our hospitals like, for example, 2566 patients spending more than 24 hours on trolleys in emergency departments waiting to get into hospital beds, into intensive care or waiting for procedural treatment in one of the hospitals. The beds are full, and there is simply no capacity. Our hospitals often operate at over 95 per cent capacity, and the auditor and others who are knowledgeable about these things say that if you are operating well over 85 per cent, you are more likely to have serious problems with moving people through the hospital system. Neither the federal nor the state proposals have any detail about additional beds and beds into the future given we know Victoria’s population is growing and ageing and we have fewer beds than we had when this government came to power. What I seek from the minister is a full audit of bed numbers in Victoria. I seek that he audit those bed numbers and publish the lists of where the beds are positioned and the types of beds. This will be an important step in enabling us to get a grip on the number of beds in Victoria, but both the federal and state plans need more beds." From: http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/downloadhansard/pdf/Council/Feb-Jun%202010/Council%20Feb-Jun%202010%20Daily%2013%20April%202010.pdf (Dave Davis is a Liberal Party Minister. You can read more about him here: http://daviddavis.com.au/about/

Re: Bill on 'TCM' Our country our rules, or they can bugger off! Rudd's Mandarin red carpet can account for the disproportionate prejudice toward so many Chinese here over any other group. Overseas immigrants are welcome if our carrying capacity test allows, and provided they agree to obey Australian laws and respect Australian values and customs, which are now as diverse as Australia's hypertolerant society allows. Backward cultures and extreme behavior which are anathema to Australian values are unAustralian, unwelcome and ought be outlawed. Aboriginal acts that breach Australian values fall into the same category. Importing animal parts from wildlife is immoral and illegal in Australia as it should be. The traditional Aboriginal custom of punishment by spearing in the thigh is now immoral and illegal as it should be. There is no room for a parallel universe for those with nostalgic fetishes for traditional immoral behaviour. Any defence of 'cultural insensitivity' is invalid when it prescribes immorality and drives species extinction. [Read comment above again]. Hey Bill, bestiality and the voodoo practice of sacrificing is also illegal in Australia. In the Solomons, "head-hunting, cannibalism and skull worship were central elements of traditional culture, and sacred skull shrines remain as macabre and fascinating reminders of the old days." I am not opposed to Solomon Islander people coming to Australia, but they must abandon any desire for introducing their traditional cannibalism for Australian values. Our country our rules, or they can bugger off! Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

Bill I think you are drawing a very long bow indeed comparing the diet and health maintenance of Australian Aboriginal people with that of the Chinese. Notwithstanding the enormous difference in the populations of the two peoples and therefore sustainability of any particular culinary choice, the indigenous Australians did not eat all of the animal species endemic to Australia. For example, animals believed to contain evil spirits or demons such as the wedge tailed eagle were not consumed. I also doubt very much that a decline in food stocks will lead to Australians turning to what is left of endemic Australian wildlife. There would be barely a Chicken McNugget each to go around. I appreciate that the Chinese community in Australia is very significant however I would expect very few of Australia's native creatures to form part of their culinary habits, biggest immigrant group or not. You see the problem is there are so very few of them and so many of us (humans that is). Concerns about the sustainability of certain TCM ingredients are valid arguments in an extremely important debate. I would also suggest that the use of animals such as tigers in TCM does have a major side effect that is clearly evident today and can be seen by everyone, culturally insensitive or not.

If you look at old Chinese Art, it contains many respectful depictions of nature, including birds and animals. Somewhere along the way, this attitude was lost. I suspect that Mao's revolution, which brought many Chinese to starvation, and which advocated massive population growth, was responsible for destroying whatever remained of that respect for nature. It isn't a good look or a good example to trash nature just for human ends. New Chinese traditions or Western capitalist corporations that destroy nature for narrow commercial gain need to be shown up for what they are, and shunned.

I believe many contributors to this type of thread will need to develop, or expand cultural sensitivity pertaining to TCM, which evolves from the culinary practices of the Chinese people. We are reflecting on a civilisation developed over unnumbered centuries, and TCM, which undeniably includes a large portion of consumerable items, along with the common diet, which has expanded to take in virtually all available animals and plants as a source of medicinal cures and protein. The success of the Chinese economy is inherent in the Chinese ascendancy here in Australia, [now largest immigrant group] and it should be expected that the native creatures here will come to form both a varied part of their culinary habits, and a source of health improvement, the latter aided by modern scientific technology. And, remember, all the native animals formed part of the diet and health maintenance of our Aboriginal tribes. Those who criticize Chinese TCM/culinary practices should mind their words, not only due to insensitivity, but due to the very nature of side effects of the medicinal drugs pushed by big pharma, and the decline of food stocks, the need for Australians to probably follow this change in medicines and diet will occur.

An article published in the Medical Journal of Australia by Dr Deborah Pelser says that the influx will hit all the major towns and cities and will push up the levels of chronic disease in them. “The Federal Government has said that to meet the challenge of a growing population, cities would have to increase their urban density. But increasing urbanisation was linked to higher rates of obesity, asthma and depression unless it was accompanied by appropriate town planning.” said Dr Pelser. THE MEDICAL NEWS "There is a lot of research to support the fact that the less green area available to a population the more likely they were at a risk of developing diseases such as diabetes, chronic neck and back pain, asthma, migraine, some types of cancer and even schizophrenia". "Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's vision of a super-sized Australia, while it might have some short-term economic benefits, will put further strain on the health system.” said Dr Pelser.

Our anonymous contributor has a simplistic superficial view of possum slaughter in New Zealand.

Yes, the brush tail possum is an introduced species in New Zealand, introduced by colonial New Zealanders in the 19th Century to establish a fur trade.

Yes, the possum has been allowed to grow to pest proportions due to lack of natural predators, ineffectual controls and removal by NZ authorities, and by an immoral backyard fur industry that simply 'manages' the possum numbers to ensure a viable ongoing fur trade. New Zealanders are not systematically removing the possum from New Zealand in a humane way. They are only perpetuating an immoral fur trade and profiting from it like they did in the 19th Century. Such practice keeps New Zealand a backward nation.

Finding a 'use' for Australian wildlife is immoral. It is the same as finding a 'use' for the Kiwi or Kea.
It is just like killing kiwi's for down or killing kangaroos or possums in Australia. It is killing wild animals for commercial gain. It is not culling pest species humanely to remove them altogether. If it were, there may be a moral argument.

Killing kangaroos for commercial gain (meat, skins, fertilizer) is the same as killing tigers for commerical gain, just like backward Chinese are prepared to pay for to get a traditional cultural hard on.

The tired argument that it is better to kill native animals than to continue killing livestock is a slippery slope - 'Non Causa Pro Causa'. That is, if killing livestock is acceptable, then by a gradual series of small steps to killing possums, kangaroos, elephants, tigers, platypus, dolphins, kiwis, kakapo parrots, takahes, koalas, giant pandas, is by extension acceptable too? It is an fallacious argument. They used to shoot Aborigines in Australia too you know.

Yes, Australian colonists and subsequent settlers have wiped out 75% of Australia's native flora and fauna to establish an agricultural industry and lifestyle - crops and livestock. Lamb and beef continue to be bred for domestic consumption and export. It was wrong and the ethics of the landscape destruction are an historic problem. But the issue of livestock damage is introducing a completely distinct problem.
This is a diversionary tactic to change the subject. So how do we address the lamb and beef damage and the demand for this lamb and beef and the jobs they provide? "Cultural clinging to introduced destructive animals for food" is one problem. Offer solutions without shifting the problem to one of wildlife slaughter.

The problem of possum slaughter in New Zealand is the focus of the above article. Isn't the challenge to remove the possum from New Zealand effectively and humanely. As far as I can tell, the New Zealand Government has given up - bit like NZ in the cricket - no stamina.

Both New Zealand and Australia's last remaining natural places are increasingly under threat. To exacerbate that threat by encouraging wildlife slaughter for commercial gain is a quantum leap of immoral and backward butchery. Wildlife slaughter in the 21st Century is one of obsolute choice. It is an extreme leisure pursuit by sadists. It is like Australian poacher Robert Borsak flying off to Zimbabwe last year to shoot African elephants. It is a sick personal fetish.

New Zealand's magnificent giant moa was once prolific and so slaughtered by Maoris to extinction. Extinction is worse than the holocaust or genocide. While millions of humans were slaughtered by the Nazis, and Hutus in Rwanda at least humans are not at risk of extinction. But there are no more moas.

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

There are three Treasury intergenerational reports. IGR1, in 2002, told us that by 2041-42, the ageing of society would put the budget in deficit by 5 per cent of GDP. Yet by 2007, IGR2 had virtually halved the forecast deficit that year to 2.7 per cent of GDP. And now IGR3 has halved it again to a forecast deficit of just 1.3 per cent of GDP! These numbers are clearly underplaying the cost of health care! The 2010 Intergenerational Report’s estimate of 4.1 per cent of GDP needed for extra health care and aged care by 2050. The share of Australia’s population that is aged 65 and over has grown from 8.4% in 1971 to 12.8% in 2001, and is projected to reach 18% by 2020. The amount of GDP spent on health care has fluctuated only very slightly between 7.5% and 8.5% of GDP for most of the time. The Productivity Commission report (2004) indicates that there will be an increase in the percentage of GDP spent on health from current levels of seven per cent to about 11 per cent in 20 years. The number of people aged between 65 and 84 years will more than double over the next four decades and the number of very old people, they are classed in this report as people aged 85 and over, will quadruple from about 400,000 today to around 1.8 million in 2050. Nationally, GDP growth will slow to under 3 per cent. It means that living standards will grow at a slower pace than what they have over the last 40 years. This all points to a future Australia which is bigger but not better. The pressures on the health Budget for example would be massive. Today a quarter of all total spending is spent on health, on age-related pensions and aged care. By 2050 it says these things will take up half of all spending. Our "ageing population" is the result of the baby boomer era and high immigration over 40 years ago. Adding more people to offset our older people will blow out our numbers further down the track!

The brush tail possum is an introduced species in New Zealand and has grown to pest proportions due to lack of natural predators. The very best for what little there is left of native New Zealand wild things is if the the introduced possum is removed... culling and finding use of the animal seems a good idea to me. It is not like killing kiwi's for down or killing kangaroos in Australia.. it's not even like killing possums in Australia. When it comes to kangaroos, it would probably be better for the native Australian flora and fauna if people switched from eating lamb and beef and ate roo instead. Kangaroos do not harm the landscape the same way as sheep or cattle do and and could help turning the immense habitat destruction that's going on because of our stupid, misinformed clinging to introduced destructive animals for food.

Re: 'Disputes belief in medical value of tiger parts 'backward' Primitive man was backward - unintelligent, insular, superstitious, amoral and simpleton. 'He' knew no better. Primitive cultures killed wildlife to survive and for spiritual and/or superstitious 'medical' reasons. Traditional Chinese Medicine has used tiger parts because of a superstitious belief that the tiger's strength translates into mythical power and so could supposedly replenish the body's essential energy, cure chronic ailments and disease. In primitive times when tens of thousands of tigers roamed naturally and primitive man knew no better, an anthropologist might be inclined to consider the practice of tiger killing justifiable back then. But this is 2010. Chinese ain't primitive anymore. Chinese know better. Furthermore, the Caspian Tiger, the Balinese Tiger and the Javan Tiger have as tiger subspecies been driven into extinction by Man. Today there are as few as 3,200 tigers surviving in the wild and it faces extinction by the next Year of the Tiger in 2022. TIGERS IN CRISIS "Western medical experts tend to discount all claims of any curative power in tiger bone, as they do the rhinoceros horn, another popular Chinese medicine. And, it is well known that aspirin contains similar properties and produces the many of the same results as tiger prescriptions in patients. Despite this, in Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam and in Chinatowns across Europe and North America, Chinese medicine stores do a steady trade in tiger wines, powder, tiger balms and tiger pills. Many Asian communities believe that tiger bone, in powdered form or prepared as, "tiger wine," soothes rheumatic pain and cures ulcers, malaria and burns. These derivatives make international trade and consumption possible in the wake of the, Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) treaty because they are not easily recognizable as tiger parts. In recent years there has also been a resurgence of interest in traditional values and cures derived from nature in Chinese culture. Thus, the use of endangered tiger parts for medicinal properties is seen as a status symbol, a way to retain customs amid rapid change and as an alternative to the shortcomings of western medicine."Source In 2010, traditional human cultures can CHOOSE to continue their traditions. They practice these in 2010 by choice. They now have access to 21st Century knowledge, skills, medicine and technology. Amoral primitive man knew no better. Traditional man in the 21st Century, now knows better and so is therefore not amoral, but indeed immoral by killing threatened species to perpetuate a tradition of choice. They can have their traditions but not to the detriment of wildlife species. Killing tigers today for any reason is unnecessary. The Japanese killing whales or Bluefin tuna for their taste is unnecessary and driving these species to extinction simply to perpetuate a tradition of choice. Traditional nostalgia is not a moral justification for driving species extinction. For Chinese and Japanese to kill threatened species is indeed more backward that their traditional ancestors. Modern Japanese and Chinese now know better! It is premeditated genocide. This is the moral basis for my assertion. So I have no problem labelling such a wanton destruction of a species as backward, depraved and criminal. It is exploitative extremism. Backward Chinese and Japanese can bugger off back to their respective homelands and stop plundering the wildlife of other lands. I have no respect for such practice and would support an international zero tolerance policy. Killing a tiger ought attract a life sentence, seizure of assets of the immediate family of the perpetrator. Personally I would shoot such poachers on sight if the law permitted and keen to fund an organisation dedicated to killing poachers. 'Protecting threatened species' should be a legal defence for someone charged with killing a poacher. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

Thank you for the article, I must admit the news is really consoling. The problem of homeless people and especially children is really dreadful all over the world; what is the little child to do if he doesn't have home and food? I'll use the info for my writing service. Editorial comment: And thank you, Haley. If you can make the effort to post a complementary and thoughtful comment, then, for our part, we can permit a small amount of free advertising. Good Luck - JS

Regardless of whether it works or not, the use of tiger body parts can not be tolerated as it is both illegal and unsustainable. Even the World Federation of Chinese Medicine Societies condemns the use of tigers or any other endangered animal such as the snow leopard. Until TCM can move forward and find substitutes for these animal products it will regularly get branded as backward and rightly so, whether they work or not is irrelevant. I'm sure if tigers do become extinct there will plenty of alternatives that will appear on the market. There is no point getting defensive about cultural insensitivity towards TCM, better to channel that energy towards fixing the root of the problem. We all love tigers don't we ? - and snow leopards, and golden cats, and bears, and turtles, and flying lizards .............................

Subject was: What is the purpose of this - JS What is the purpose of this? Editorial comment: I thought the purpose should have been clear by now. It's a light-hearted self-deprecating vignette about the country from which Tim's mother came. It obviously blows out of the water of the dogma of multi-culturalism in which certain countries, with cultures deemed worthless, are supposedly morally bound to allow their cultures to be cast aside in favour of supposedly richer and more exotic cultures from elsewhere.

I think though that to kill a tiger merely to benefit a human is disrespectful to something of extraordinary beauty, strength and rarity, and a sign of depravity. To preserve its habitat and allow it to thrive is a sign of dignity and self-control in the human species.

Whilst I in no means advocate the killing of tigers (or any animals) for medical or other purposes I think your disdain for the validity of it as a therapy is ignorant and disrespectful. I don't get the impression that you have actual intellectual basis for your assertion that people who think that this works are "backward". Whether or not it works and whether or not it should be done are two different issues.

The Hon Ian MacDonald, M.L.C. Minister for Mineral and Forest Resources Governor Macquarie Tower Level 36, 1 Farrer Place, SYDNEY NSW 2000 Dear Mr. McDonald, I have been reading about the destruction of koala habitat in the south eastern forests of N.S.W. through logging for wood chips and supply to the Japanese. This is most alarming and further destruction of habitat needs to be prevented. Any wild life habitat should be preserved since we are the worst country for biodiversity loss in the world. Koala habitat is especially precious as these iconic Australian marsupials have always been very much loved. Biodiversity aside, from the moral point of view if this continues we are no different than the 3rd world countries that destroy their forests to make way for palm oil leaving orang outangs to die in the devastation that follows destruction of habitat. What right do you think the N.S.W. government has to allow this extermination and to deny future generations of Australians the joy of knowing these native animals in the region? I am most unimpressed. Yours Sincerely

The Australian Koala Foundation chief Deborah Tabart had the sad task of reading through 700 post mortem examination reports on koalas found dead in southeast Queensland. Most of them were "wasted". Koalas' would-be saviour wryly applauds population debate This says that the main threat is not just dogs, roads but lack of trees to feed on. Much of the bushland skirting Brisbane was being cleared to cram in thousands of new families. The top invasive species is the human race. When indigenous species are lost to human invasion, we are not only threatening the integrity of our land and ecosystems, but the survival of an iconic, world known, species. It could ultimately mean we could be next! There is no economic, moral or environmental justification to add to our numbers at the present rate of population growth. It is just no sustainable, and the costs do not justify it. Anna Bligh is not only more dangerous than cane toads as she is actually part of the threatening process by not calling for a cap on population. Land developers and our State governments are all heavily invested in real estate at the cost of species loss and sustainability. Our bushland is in serious trouble and if native non-human species can't survive. It means our environmental integrity is seriously threatened.

Here it is 39 - 61 a clear victory against the big increase (with 4979 votes cast). http://www.theage.com.au/polls/growing-pains/20100407-rrsf.html#poll No wonder big business are getting worried and putting pressure on both sides of parliament. Time for people to start emailing MPs to put people pressure on them. Tell them we have more votes than big business, this rapid increase is ruining our cities and our lifestyle.

Thanks for this response, AP.

Part of the problem is that the monstrousness of this crime is precisely what prevents many people from rationally considering the evidence, for even to do so, one risks being judged as excusing the crime.

The evidence directly implicating Martin Bryant is non-existent, so, instead the case against Bryant (which was never formally put becaus there was no trial) largely centres on supposed facts that make him and people he was acquainted with appear capable of committing the crime or at least being very bizarre.

A case in point is this excerpt from "Born or Bred":

The tragic consequences of [Martin Bryant's relationship with 54-year-old heiress Helen Mary Elizabeth Harvey], however, began early.

As the friendship moved from employer-employee to friends and then constant companions, Helen's mother Hilza was left increasingly alone inside what was fast becoming a filthy hellhole. She had been moved downstairs into the kitchen at some stage, and it was here that the old woman was forced to sleep, upright in a chair, writhing and wriggling in a bid to gain relief from an undiagnosed and untreated broken hip for most of the last two years of her life.

In June 1990, after someone made a report to the health authorities, medics arrived to find both Hilza and Helen in need of urgent hospital treatment with infected leg ulcers and living in squalor in the kitchen, surrounded not only by roaming animals, but unwashed dishes and saucepans and bowls with mould so high it was climbing out of the oven.
SEVENTY-nine-year-old Hilza Harvey was an abject horror of neglect, sitting untended with her broken hip and withering slowly in the kitchen on her chair.

As horrified as they were, the ambulance officers cast no judgment on the situation. Hilza's deterioration was rapid. After several weeks in hospital, she was moved to a nursing home where she died at the end of July.

The RSPCA took away most of the animals while Helen recovered in hospital. A clean-up order was also placed on the house, and Maurice Bryant took it upon himself to take long-service leave and attempt to coordinate the job with his son.

It took three months to scrape the filth from the floors, walls and surfaces of almost every room. A dozen skips were filled with rubbish while Helen's entire wardrobe had to be thrown away.

On the face of it, these facts present Helen Mary Elizabeth Harvey, and, possibly, indirectly, Martin Bryant, in a bad light, if we forget his IQ of 66.

Whether this is true or some facts have been omitted, or whether it was the result of a misunderstanding rather than conscious cruelty on Harvey's part, I can't say, but this is an example of the kind of information which causes many to conclude that Bryant must have been guilty in the absence of any direct evidence of his guilt.

According to Wikipedia, the economy of Peru is the 47th largest in the world. Peru is an emerging, market-oriented economy characterized by a high level of foreign trade. In 2010 Peru's per capita income (PPP) is bordering $10,000. Peru has a Human Development Index score of 78. (HDI measures people’s well-being by combining measures of health, education and wealth. Since its inception, the HDI has become a prominent global measure of well-being. Australia is 2 and Peru is 78, Nigeria is 158). According to the US Department of State, GDP (2008): $127.8 billion. Annual growth rate (2008): 9.8%. Per capita GDP (2008): $4,477. Natural resources: Copper, gold, silver, zinc, lead, iron ore, fish, petroleum, natural gas, and forestry. Sounds impressive? Peru has been wracked by political instability with military dictatorship 1968-1980, then a succession of corrupt "democratically" elected dictators. President Toledo's economic management (2001-2006) led to an impressive economic boom in Peru that remains strong. Poverty reduction was uneven, however, and former president Fujimori was sent to prison. Peru is the world's top producer of silver, second in zinc, third in copper and tin, fourth in lead, and sixth in gold. Mineral exports have consistently accounted for the most significant portion of Peru's export revenue, comprising 63% in 2008. The $3.8 billion Peru LNG project, currently under construction, will liquefy natural gas for export to Mexico and possibly the west coast of the United States, converting Peru into a net energy exporter in 2010. The International Monetary Fund reaffirmed this month its forecast that Peru’s economy should expand 6.5 percent in 2010. The wealth is not distributed to the public, but kept by the president and the elite. Despite the GDP and strong natural resources and exports, most Peruvians live in abject poverty, disease and lack of infrastructure. The level of poverty remains extremely high among the rural population. It is increasing in the inner cities as well. Human rights abuses abound. Human Rights Watch has urged the Peruvian government to conduct a full investigation into the deaths of six civilians during a demonstration. They died during a protest by some 6,000 unlicensed miners in the south of the country. Indigenous peoples land rights are being violated and poisoned by mining companies. The GDP is not a good indicator of a nation's liveability, justice system, democracy, public spending, human rights or environmental status.

Hello James Sheila asked me if I could remember anything about the case or whether I might have some information. Only anecdotal material, not all that accurate (she may send my email on) - Your inclusion of Suddenly One Sunday of (undated) on by Patrick Bellamy on trutv.com. bears the closest resemblance to what I remember reading, although the chronological episodes of his father's death and that of the wealthy woman friend, were represented in a different light. and further The Port Arther Massacre - Was Martin Bryant Framed? parts 1, 2 & 3 (pdf 100K, 111K & 126K) by Carl Wernerhoff in Nexus1 magazine issue 77 of June-July 2006.) ... Carl Wenerhoff has some excellent evidence to support his question as to whether or not Bryant may have been framed... Good luck with this quest AP

To Recap John Marlow's Comments - for new readers: In regard to: Swan’s growth fetish belies the LibLab's stale 20th Century baby-boomer ideology Posted April 7th, 2010 by John Marlowe -AND- 'Economists Search for New Definition of Well-Being' On April 10th, 2010 John Marlowe ‘Treasurer Wayne Swan has tried to justify another rise in interest rates by claiming ...that such an impost is a sign of stronger Australian economy.’ Wayne Swan claimed: “Capping growth over the next 40 years at 0.8 per cent instead of the 1.2 per cent projected would wipe 17 per cent off the nation's gross domestic product by 2050.” and from Rudd ... "I actually believe in a big Australia I make no apology for that. I actually think it's good news that our population is growing." 'It made Australians reel in fear. 'On uttering that dire portent, Rudd cast the demise of Australian lifestyle, inviting hoards of legalised arrivals. And neither Rudd nor Swan offers any plans for coping with this enlarged population – no plans for sustainability, infrastructure and maintaining the Australian quality of life. Both are blinkered to the narrow economic interpretations and have lost sight of the social and environmental consequences of high population growth. * Interests rates have just gone up again and are set to continue only exacerbating house unaffordability, the cost of living and degrading Australian living standards. * Australian cities have run out of potable water, so billions in taxes are going into desalination plants. * Utility charges are going up. Energy Australia is set to raise electricity prices by 60% over the next three years in order to fund Sydney’s massive electricity infrastructure to catch up with the growing urban sprawl. * Roads are congested in Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney. Public transport is old and overloaded. Something to remember when considering the pros & cons of population growth in relation to GDP- (Wayne Swan's argument) - is that GDP (Gross Domestic Product) - is an inaccurate, one-dimensional-metric - used to gauge societal developments. GDP does not assimilate all the relevant facts such as these, included by John Marlow in other information provided to readers on this page, for better understanding. ‘... (GDP) says nothing about the distribution of wealth in a country, the state of health of its citizens or their life expectancy. * The number provides no information about the cleanliness of rivers or the amount of air pollution. * There is also no mention in the statistic of voluntary work or of domestic work like cooking, cleaning, washing and ironing -- all things that are considered economically irrelevant. * When a nursing service attends to someone's sick mother, the cost of that service is included in GDP. * But if a daughter takes care of her sick mother, her work is not reflected in the GDP calculation. * And when a mother nurses her baby, it may be beneficial for the child, but it would of course be more "valuable" economically if the mother bought milk and bottles for the baby in the supermarket. * The growth rate even increases when things are destroyed -- that is, when natural disasters or wars plunge people into ruin -- because construction firms and pharmaceutical companies profit from such events. In other words, the misfortunes of some create wealth for others. I urge all readers, when thinking about Population Growth to consider all the facts - but totally disregard argument which includes GDP - GDP is accountant dross - accountant speak for profit and loss, which does not take into account the human costs - and it's humans who are actually paying for it all! Sustainable Population - well regulated, providing quality infrastructure - is what we should be aiming for!

I regard the misuse of the GDP measure as just another of many devices employed to deliberately conceal the truth. It seems likely that, on average, at the moment, whilst we still have non-renewable resources we are able to consume, we are 'better off' than we were one or two generations ago in terms of how much of those resources each of us is able to consume. One of the most obvious examples would be familes with a second or third car instead of only one. Any family able to afford the second or third car could easily be depicted as having the order of double the real income of a family in the 1960's according to the GDP measure, but, obviously, if that car is bought out of absolute necessity and not out of choice that conclusion would be inaccurate. When we consider so many other factors and the fact that two, rather than only one income is necessary for most families, it seems far more likely that living standards have declined massively rather than improved, adn that would be even before taking into account factors like crowding, less access to recreational areas, noise, alienation, the crime rate, etc. The access to a myriad of gizmos and computer technology and the Internet, largely made cheap by third world slave labor and relatively cheap petroleum, may make this less obvious to many, but I would personally happily give all that back to be able to re-establish the lifestyle we once had, for all its flaws and limitiations and I don't think I would be alone in that view. For further information, please see my article "Living standards and our material prosperity" of 6 Jun 07 on Online Opinion and the forum discussion.

Vivienne, re: comment 'Australian Conservation Foundation on population growth'

Yes, the Rudd's red herring of Minister for Population chronically fails to recognise the underlying cause. Tony Burke is another Rudd puppet there to appease. His role is a gross abuse of political power and taxpayer funds. It is another Rudd politburo.

'Population can't be capped' is Rudd propaganda. Is Rudd's preference for Chinese methods only his Mandarin?

But please go back and read the statistical trend that Australia's current compound 2.1% population growth threatens. It is not 35 million but 50 million by 2050, or 1 million a year. I have updated the article accordingly.

The Kyoto Protocol recommended pollution levels be capped to 1990 levels.
It is wholly appropriate that the same baseline year apply to population.

Australia's population in 1990 was 17 million.
Source

Agent Provocateur, re: 'GDP ... A NOTIONAL Value & POP Growth - like a Cancer!'

Yes, you're on to it.

GDP is a blunt one dimensional metric, indeed never intended by its inventor to be a single metric, bit one of many. American economist Simon Kuznets in the 1930s in the wake of the Great Depression, devised Gross Domestic Product as just a single indicator of economic performance for the government of the day.

Swan is a simple person using simple measures and delivering simple messages trying to cope in a complex integrated market system and society. Read Swan's speeches. It is always a good insight to read a minister's first speech to gauge what to expect. Wayne Swan's First Speech where he condemns laissez-faire economics and champions the 'economic importance of sport'.

The following article from online news agency Der Spiegel is instructive:

'Economists Search for New Definition of Well-Being'

'GDP may be an extremely useful economic indicator, but it ignores many factors important to the well-being of a society, such as health care or life expectancy. Economists like the Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz are now trying to come up with a new, broader definition of prosperity.

It was an astonishing confession for a politician to make, particularly one like French President Nicolas Sarkozy. "The world over, citizens think we are lying to them," the French president admitted last week to a stunned audience at the Sorbonne in Paris. "And they have reasons to think like that."

Sarkozy was referring to the way in which government statistics measure economic growth. He believes that the current method is extremely questionable, perhaps even manipulative. This realization prompted the French president in 2008 to commission a number of prominent academics, including Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz, to come up with a new definition of prosperity.

"GDP has increasingly become used as a measure of societal well-being and changes in the structure of the economy and our society have made it an increasingly poor one," Stiglitz told the news agency Bloomberg in a recent interview. "So many things that are important to individuals are not included in GDP." In the model they unveiled last week in Paris, the academics recommend including other factors, such as sustainability and education.

Significant Shortcomings

Even the inventor of the gross domestic product measure, the late Russian-American economist Simon Kuznets, was aware that the classic method of computing GDP had significant shortcomings. "The welfare of a nation can scarcely be inferred from a measure of national income," he said in 1934.

This is because the growth rate says nothing about the distribution of wealth in a country, the state of health of its citizens or their life expectancy. The number provides no information about the cleanliness of rivers or the amount of air pollution. There is also no mention in the statistic of voluntary work or of domestic work like cooking, cleaning, washing and ironing -- all things that are considered economically irrelevant.

When a nursing service attends to someone's sick mother, the cost of that service is included in GDP. But if a daughter takes care of her sick mother, her work is not reflected in the GDP calculation. And when a mother nurses her baby, it may be beneficial for the child, but it would of course be more "valuable" economically if the mother bought milk and bottles for the baby in the supermarket.

The growth rate even increases when things are destroyed -- that is, when natural disasters or wars plunge people into ruin -- because construction firms and pharmaceutical companies profit from such events. In other words, the misfortunes of some create wealth for others.

Footprints and Backpacks

In the past few years, many academics have sought alternative definitions of wealth and have even come up with a few catchy metaphors. For instance, Swiss-born sustainability advocate Mathis Wackernagel devised the concept of the ecological footprint, according to which 2.1 hectares (5.2 acres) of arable ground are available for each human being. However, the average citizen's consumption requires 2.7 hectares, while the average American needs close to 10 hectares to sustain his or her way of life.

The influential German environmental researcher Friedrich Schmidt-Bleek invented the concept of the invisible "ecological backpack" that everyone carries around. According to Schmidt-Bleek's calculations, a bulldozer has to move about five tons of earth to produce a 10-gram gold wedding ring. From an environmental perspective, says Schmidt-Bleek, the gold ring on a husband's finger weighs more "than the minivan he uses to take his children for a drive."

Other researchers take a more conventional approach. Since 1996, the German Federal Statistical Office -- which also computes the country's GDP -- has published comprehensive statistics regarding environmental issues related to the economy, which features 21 indicators ranging from species diversity to government debt. However the statisticians soon abandoned their original idea of expressing all the parameters in a single value. Even Sarkozy's illustrious team has not produced a global formula, but rather a kind of instrument panel showing various parameters.

Not Better, Just Different

Very few researchers have been brave enough to attempt to synthesize the variables and compute a sort of green GDP. One of them is Heidelberg economist Hans Diefenbacher, who has developed a "national welfare index."

Diefenbacher begins with private consumption, and then adds the value of domestic work and voluntary work. Then he deducts factors he considers harmful, such as the costs of polluting air and water, as well as the costs incurred by traffic accidents or resulting from crime. The outcome is expressed in the form of a curve, which has been declining relative to GDP since the beginning of the decade.

Of course, Diefenbacher concedes, the concept has its weaknesses. One is the difficulty involved in determining the costs of environmental damage or expressing the disappearance of a species in terms of euros and cents. Diefenbacher has also been accused of being arbitrary in his choice of which indicators to use. He defends his approach by saying: "Our calculation isn't better, just different."

In other words, there is no lack of ideas on how to define well-being. It is precisely because of the large number of possible approaches that the dominance of the classic growth concept is so hard to break. So far, at any rate, no alternative model has prevailed.

Diefenbacher also has no intention of eliminating the concept of GDP. For him, it would be enough if his index could attract a similar amount of attention -- and if people became less obsessed with a single indicator."

Another reference worth reading:

'Gross Inaccuracies – The Flawed GDP'

"The groundswell of criticism is now yielding some high-level results.

Soon the OECD–the group of rich countries–will introduce a series of new measurements aimed at going beyond GDP...

More significantly, Stiglitz and Sen argue that a real measure of national well-being requires assessment of the quality of life, the degree to which individuals have opportunities to develop their own talents, and the environmental sustainability of the system — all of which are ignored by the GDP and may or may not increase as it grows."

http://www.reboottherepublic.com/blog/economics/gross-inaccuracies-the-flawed-gdp/

Dateline 9th April, a VicForest spokesman wanted to assess the film of the potoroo evidence. Perhaps the potoroos were placed there by activists? Perhaps they were cardboard cutouts? (except they were moving). Perhaps the film was doctored? Old growth forests by their very nature are rich in biodiversity and wildlife. That's naturally where endangered species and likely to be found. Of course, the DSE don't look for wildlife as they don't want to find them! DSE are responsible for our wildlife, yet they are are negligent in their duty and prefer to support the status quo of our State government's priorities. Our Brumby government's focus is on real estate, economic growth and population growth and the jobs to support it. Finding endangered wildlife, or any at all, is just an impediment to their aims.

Hi Tigerquoll, Yes I am associated with friends of the five forests and sorry further down the resources page is a list of JPEP maps that shows areas to be logged etc. The current map you have shows areas of Biamanga NP that are currently, touch wood, not proposed for logging. regards Robert Bertram

We hear lots about planning for population growth, but very little about why we would want our population to be rapidly growing. The merits of little population growth, or stability, are not mentioned. It is as if it were inevitable, and as Tony Burke said, it can't be capped! According to the ACF, "The Rudd government has committed to reduce Australia’s pollution levels to 60% below 2000 levels by 2050. If our population stabilises at 27 million in 2050, that means a per capita reduction of about 72%. That’s tough enough already. But if our population is 36 million by 2050, a 79% per capita reduction is required to meet the same goal, with even more ambitious reductions thereafter as our population continues to grow." Also, "The Victorian government has set Melburnians a water use target of 155 litres per person, per day. If the city grows from its present population of 3.8 million to 5 million, Melburnians will have to cut their water use to 118 litres per person per day. If Melbourne goes to 6 million, the daily target should be 98 litres." If we have more desalination plants, our water bills will continue to double! Restoring ecosystem health is much more than just protecting what’s left. Re-connecting fragmented habitats through biodiversity corridors is a centrepiece of many state environmental strategies. Finally, "advocates for rapid growth must be prepared to spell out their plans for 79% per capita cuts in emissions, water use of below 100 litres per person per day and housing densities that allow for the reversion of currently developed land to biodiversity corridors. And that’s just to be consistent with current government environmental policies". Why wait until 2050 then to make population growth officially an "threatening process" under the ECPB Act?

I say that GDP - Gross Domestic Product is a notional value Wiki defines it thus: '...the measure of an economy adopted by the United States in 1991; the total market values of goods and services produced by workers and capital ... Rank, worthless accountant's dross, if you ask me - a mythical, hyperthetical measurement, designed to manipulate statistics - a tool for politicians - who use it to toss off and legitimize their agendas. '...nation's gross domestic product by 2050.” As John Marlowe above says: "Swan only sees the economic data yet has no broader social plan.." '...Swan promises to protect national living standards and environmental sustainability, without saying how he can do this.' A pity we can't send the proponents of POPulation gRoWtH off in a slow boat to China - as the saying goes.

Raoul, without wildlife carers like you, what chance would our wildlife have? Each one you rehab is so blessed ... as are you. Unfortunately we are outnumbered by the number of people who just don't care ..... menkit "It’s embarrassing for Australia that we eat our own wildlife ....I’m here to tell you it’s just not right. Simply do not buy, use or eat kangaroo products” ~ Steve Irwin Sign the most important petition ever created to help kangar

If anyone wants to read my plea to the roo hunter + poem they can do so here in "Kangaroo Meat - confessions of a wildlife serial killer". I thought since Tigerquoll starts off this article referring to it, we may as well let people read it. Cheers, Menkit "It’s embarrassing for Australia that we eat our own wildlife ....I’m here to tell you it’s just not right. Simply do not buy, use or eat kangaroo products” ~ Steve Irwin Sign the most important petition ever created to help kangaroos. http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/kangaroo-extinction.html

"To achieve climate stability through reductions in fossil fuel emissions will, most likely, require the collective actions of many individuals, and we should remain optimistic that this is possible." This type of comment is common but illustrates the widespread misunderstanding of what is happening in the operation of the ecosystem as the result of the use of industrial systems. Reductions in fossil fuel emissions will only reduce the rate of global warming and possibly the degree of climate change. The fossil fuel used to date has initiated rapid irreversible climate change. That is a simple scientific fact. Rapid reduction in the future rate of emissions globally would be sound policy as it could reduce the likelihood of catastrophic climatic events. But that smart approach is not fostered by the type of misunderstanding in the above quote.

One suspects, unfortunately, that with Labor Party investments in property development and finance, which depend on population growth, Julia and her political associates don't care all that much whether they win or lose elections in the end. What they seem to care about is how much money the investments that their political policies support can make. The rhetoric is that we need and want economic growth, but the only people that growth benefits are the super rich. The Federal and State Labor government politicians probably figure that, when they lose government, they will still be able to do whatever they want to policies and laws using their corporate influence. Is the ALP in fact a government or a state and federal development and banking corporation? See "Australian Labor Governments or Commercial corporations?" The Liberal Party will try to do just the same thing if they get into office. We can see that by the fact that they give little support to democratic objections to what the Labor Party is doing. Thank heavens for the Stable Population Party of Australia (SPPA). Join it to give Australians a chance against big money. Consider also preferencing these new parties. Sheila Newman, population sociologist home page Copyright to the author. Please contact sheila [AT] candobetter org or the editor if you wish to make substantial reproduction or republish.

Kevin Rudd's commitment to climate change, the "greatest moral challenge of our generation", has become another broken promise. Australia already has many environmental problems, such as land degradation, endangered species, an increasing incidence of toxic algal blooms in our rivers, declining fish stocks, land clearing, air pollution, and vulnerable water supplies. All these impacts will be exacerbated and be more expensive to manage with increasing demands on our land and natural resources, brought about through population growth. Very large cuts in emissions of greenhouse gases are needed if we are to avoid the worst effects of global climate change. Decline in carbon sinks such as forests, and oceans' ability to absorb CO2, are evidence of the impacts of increasing populations on the environment. The benefits of increasing our population are arguable economic ones, and far from convincing. However, despite all possible "planning", the threats are enormous and long-reaching! The connection between population growth and rising CO2 levels, and the weakening of natural carbon sinks, is an "inconvenient truth" being ignored by our Federal government, intent on achieving maximum profits and taxes at the expense of future generations and our planet's health.

Not long ago Julia was crowing that Melbourne was the fastest growing city in Australia - as if that magically meant everyone would be better off. The electorate are not mugs, however. They know that population growth creates winners and losers and that once a city passes critical mass to establish it's viability continued rapid growth, badly managed - as has been the case with Melbourne in recent times - is nothing but a bad news story for Mr and Ms Joe Average. No amount of spin can change that. She (and other politicians) would find their standing in the community would dramatically improve if they simply dropped the spin and approached these issues openly and honestly.

video should be available tomorrow (8th April 2010) at: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/vodcast.htm Tony Jones interviewed deputy PM Julia Gillard. I just watched it. A couple of points. She said that the distribution of our population is an issue which could be addressed by the new population minister. She specifically mentioned the resource projects in North-West Australia as an example of this. These resource projects are huge but I don't think the direct and indirect employment in this whole region as a result of resource extraction will amount to any more than in the order of tens of thousands. (i.e. 10,000 - 100,000) Modern mines, wells, processing facilities, export ports are extremely capital intensive (Most of the machinery is imported from outside Australia) and have a great deal of automation. I don't ever expect 100's of 1000's of people to be required to work directly in these resource projects or indirectly in the same region as a result. So therefor this is hardly a reason to maintain high population growth or for a government to make a priority of redistributing the growing population to chase employment in these projects. I see the need to "properly" distribute our population as a nonsense argument that only serves to ignore the real issues of population growth. Secondly she addressed the long-stay temporary migrants, with the specific example of the 500,000+ foreign fee-paying students in Australia. She repeated the mantra of it being a huge income earner (I think she said $17B), and said the opposition want to cut this to zero. Clearly there is no opposition policy to reduce foreign student numbers to zero, and as I have mentioned before, hosting 500,000+ students has a lot of costs which I am sure eats up most of the $17B, if not more. Julia Gillard is a great rhetorician, but her arguments supporting population growth are absolutely hopeless.

Rod Quantock's new Comedy Festival show 'The People We Should Eat First and How To Cook Them' is ON NOW (in Victoria) ­­ Venue: Trades Hall, Cnr Lygon & Victoria St, Carlton Dates: Thu 25 March – Fri 16 April )No shows Monday) Tickets: Tues $19.90; Full $24.90, Concession, Laugh Pack & Group (6+) $22.90 (no Conc Sat) Times: 7.15pm Tue-Sat, 6.15pm Sun Bookings: comedyfestival.com.au, Ticketmaster 1300 660 013 or at the door.

And thats what it is all about,getting a hug is enough.

We certainly need more people like yourselves who are prepared to "have a go".Our wildlife desperatly need more RESPECT as it won't be long and we will all have to go to a zoo to view what we haven't killed.

The top four property developer lobby groups in Australia are probably:

* Property Council of Australia
* Business Council of Australia
* The Urban Taskforce
* The Lowy Institute for International Policy

Property Council of Australia
Identifies its goals for 2010 being to:

1. Improve property returns by reforming taxes and business regulation
2. Achieve strong economic growth leveraged by world class infrastructure
3. Unite and mobilise the property industry behind a well-resourced property advocate
4. Enhance the industry’s image

The Business Council of Australia advocates the need for:

* Good business regulation
* Better taxation
* Excellence in education
* High-quality, cost-effective health care
* World-class infrastructure, including market-based emissions trading
* Global engagement
* Flexible, enterprise-based workplace relations
* Wide workforce participation

...each obviously to benefit small and corporate business interests.

The Urban Taskforce is about "growing cities and regions (that) provide the engine room for the economy...representing Australia's most prominent property developers and equity financiers. The committee includes some of Australia's leading property developers. The Urban Taskforce's mission includes promoting "increased economic activity...in urban communities."

The Lowy Institute for International Policy board comprises four Lowy family members who own, control and develop Westfield shopping centres globally and the remainder as you point out represent finance, economists, banking, and real estate interests.

The Lowy platform is not clear on its website, but seems mainly geared to influencing the Australian government on international policy – economic, political and strategic and I guess this includes immigration. A quick scan of articles is that it seems to be telling Australian prime ministers what to do and aht to focus on. May be it is Frank Lowy's mouthpiece after he reads daily and international news affecting his business and personal interests.

Opinion polls conducted by any of these lobby groups would be clearly biased.
the only credible polls ar ethos econducted by independent market researchers.
As a start, I would look at Roy Morgan Research which is certified to both AS/NZS ISO 9001 and to the new ISO 20252 International Market, Opinion and Social Research standard (NCSI Registration No. 6669).

This new standard is specific to the market research industry and covers all stages of a research study, including proposals, questionnaire design, field, data analysis and final presentation of results to clients.

Unless governments want to hear what they want to hear, rather than reality they would choose lobbyist data over certified market research data.

An opinion poll done by the Lowy Institute shows Australians are comfortable with some increase in population size but are not in full support of the 36 million projected in the government's intergenerational report. The Lowy Institute's poll of 1000 Australians - conducted in early March - showed that just 4% of people want the current population of 22 million reduced. The Lowy Institute is made up of the family that own the Westfield Group and the rest represent finance, economists, banking, and real estate interests. Their surveys or “finding” aren’t going to be transparent and objective. They are part of the growth-industries and population growth is in their interests. They are the biggest shopping centre developers in the world - the Westfield Group! Who were interviewed for this survey? Probably developers and investors! The voices are loud and clear – Australians don’t want more population growth and so many people are already disadvantaged and have their diminishing lifestyles threatened.

April is a dangerous time for whales in Norwegian waters: it marks the start of whaling season. This year, up to 1,286 Minke whales will die from exploding harpoon and rifle wounds. Norway needs to know that this is unacceptable, NOW. Norway is one of just three countries defying the international ban on commercial whaling, undermining its reputation as a progressive nation concerned with animal welfare. The sheer size of whales, coupled with the challenging hunting environment, means that there is simply no humane way to kill these animals at sea. Norway’s own data shows that at least one in five hunted whales suffers a long, agonising death. Some take over an hour to succumb to their injuries. Imagine the pain. Despite the fact that only 1% of the population eat whale meat regularly, Norway continues to defy the whaling ban: 2010’s kill quota is the highest in 25 years. The government claims to receive little criticism over whaling. It’s time that changed. Please help WSPA and take action: Speak out against whale slaughter

Paul Kelly must have read Power Without Glory recently, or could it be Machiavelli, or Bjelke Petersen ? He says...'The real significance of this government initiative is to pre-empt a deeper backlash against immigration by reframing the political and policy debate. Australia's national interest is squarely on the line. Rudd and Tony Abbott both believe in a growing population and will need to be called to account if they succumb to populism' In other words, 'The chooks have spoken. By all means feed them, but don't take any bloody notice of them, they are, after all, only chooks' Brian

Why is it that every time a kangaroo, wombat, magpie etc allegedly attacks a human there is a media frenzy over the issue. Why will millions of people learn of this "killer wombat" yet remain ignorant of the plight of the Southern Hairy Nosed Wombat whose burrows are being bulldozed, ploughed over or blown up. Dentons story makes for very amusing reading, thanks Sheila. Perhaps more stories like Denton's should reach the mainstream media. Its harder to accept the killing of a wombat with an axe when you are equipped with even the smallest understanding of these beautiful creatures.

Wayne Swan justified increase interest rates on TV last night saying it was all part of "economic growth", as if this was supposed to bring some comfort to the people paying more to keep a roof over their heads? An increase of 0.25 points would add $48 to the monthly cost of repaying a $300,000 mortgage taking the total rise since October to $187. The Reserve Bank will put rates up 4 times this year as our economy "improves". Mr Swan said the 25 basis point rise was taking interest rates to more normal levels. This is the reality of a strengthening economy! The interest rates may be in a "normal" range but not the amount that needs to be borrowed, all manufactured to be at record levels by population growth - and support from the finance and housing industries. Our economy might be "strengthening" but people are becoming poorer!

Tremendous effort, Vivienne. My understanding is that releasing kangaroos to new territory needs to be done in groups. They have to be a viable mob. So the mob, or large sections of it, should have been transported all in one go. There have been enough experiments on tranquilising kangaroos to be useful. What about the ones that Don Fletcher did on kangaroos at Belconnen. He knocked them out and put masks over their eyes and then took them away for contraceptive implants or some such.

Hmm. From what I have heard, you don't want to lack respect for some wombats. A bit like some humans. It's usually an issue of territory and young wombats stepping out to see the world. Have any of you read this story about Denton? It sounds as if Denton was quite traumatised and took it out on people at times. I gather he has his own home now and is probably doing well. Conversely, here is another story about wombats which shows them to be wonderful, gentle companions. In Britain 19th century poets called the wombat "the most beautiful creature of all" and described its gentleness. Hairy nosed wombat in South Australia, a cause well worth supporting.

I also found the man mauling wombat story hard to believe. I cannot imagine a non predatory animal such as a wombat gratuitously attacking a human. It doesn't make sense and as my favourite TV judge says "if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true."

In The Age newspaper today (6th April 2010) is the story 'Man-mauling wombat felled by axe' by journalists Reid Sexton and Megan Levy.

"...Bruce Kringle, 60, lay on top of the animal in a desperate bid to stop the attack in Flowerdale just before 7am. A neighbour heard his cries for help and, after telling Mr Kringle to move off the animal, killed it with a blow from the back of an axe.

Geoff McClure, compliance team leader for the Department of Sustainability and Environment, said a wombat attack was extremely unusual."

Frankly, I find this hard to believe and indeed suspicious. 'Rogue wombat'. Wombats are native to this part of Victoria. If anything, it is the humans with axes that are the roagues. Did Kringle have a Alexander Pearcian moment after getting on the turps perhaps? Alexander Pearce was that notorious 19th Century convict in Van Diemans Land who butchered his fellow escapees with an axe then ate them, as the recent disturbingfilm portrays.

The incident should be investigated by both a RSPCA vet and the police taking account of witnesses, and including a blood alchohol test on both the men, and a background check on Kringle and the 'neighbour' who killed it with an axe for any history of animal abuse.

Killing a wombat with an axe? How cruel, vicious and unnecessary!

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

Thank you Vivienne,

This is an important ecological issue that is not going to go away with human populations permeating further into the last remnant wildlife islands we have.

This issue would seem to come under the generic topics of:

* Human-Wildlife Conflicts
* Wildlife Translocation

On these topics I recommend the text 'Resolving Human-Wildlife Conflicts: The Science of Wildlife Damage Management' by Michael Conover, CRC Press 2001.

These topics deserve to be explored and publised with a view of legislating best ecological practice.

I also highlight the comparison of 20th Century treatment of Australia's wildlife (kangaroos, wild fouls in Victoria's duck season) to the British colonial treatment of Aborigines in the 19th Century.
I recommend adults only reading of BLACK WAR - THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TASMANIAN ABORIGINES By RUNOKO RASHIDI, in particular Part 2.
It is disturbing reading and I warn it may offend.

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

The Australian Multicultural Foundation website lists its aims and objectives as:

Aims and Objectives

1. To cultivate in all Australians a strong commitment to Australia as one people drawn from many cultures and by so doing to advance its social and economic well-being
2. The promotion of an awareness among the people of Australia of the diversity of cultures within Australia
3. The contribution of people from all cultures to the development of Australia
4. The spread of respect and understanding between all cultural groups through any appropriate means.

These seem wholesome noble aims.

Alumni Page

But yes, it seems a tad contrary that the website's Alumni page shows mainly photos of muslim women with head scarves.

Areas of interest

This section states "The Foundation has adopted an active role to develop intercultural initiatives" including "Promotion of awareness of our diverse cultures", "increasing foreign language skills", "Making use of cultural links between overseas communities and institutions and Australian residents".

So how is this 'cultivating in all Australians a strong commitment to Australia as one people'?

AMF Partners

AMF partners include:

    Community Languages Australia

"(Australian Federation of Ethnic Schools Associations) is an umbrella body designed to unite the ethnic schools of Australia, and the state-based bodies which serve as their administrators, consolidating them beneath a single, organizational banner, and in the process carrying out a number of crucial roles in the creation, maintenance, and profile of Australia’s over 1,000 community language schools, who provides language maintenance in 69 languages to in excess of 100,000 school age children."

    Scanlon Foundation

www.scanlonfoundation.org.au
The Scanlon Foundation’s mission is: “to support the creation of a larger cohesive Australian society”. Cultural Diversity and Social Cohesion has been the primary focus of its grant giving since its establishment in 2001.

    Kape Communication

www.kape.com.au
Kape Communications headed by Fotis Kapetopoulos specializes in cultural brokerage, multicultural marketing and arts industry development. Kape conducts audience research, communication campaigns, training and business development as well as undertake productions. Kape excel in arts marketing, cultural policy, arts management training, audience development, program curation and research.

    Federation of Ethnic Communities Councils of Australia

www.fecca.org.au
"FECCA is the peak, national body representing Australians from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds. FECCA's role is to advocate, lobby and promote issues on behalf of its constituency to government, business and the broader community.

Aims of these Partners incongruent with stated core aim of AMF

Singling out these specific partners from others listed on the AMF website, it would appear that the aims of these organisations are inconsistent with AMF's prime aim "to cultivate in all Australians a strong commitment to Australia as one people."

Rather the aims read more like fostering the reinforcement of foreign cultures and languages, building a larger Australian society from increased immigration, developing multi-cultural opportunities, political advocacy and lobbying of foreign cultures in Australia. AMF is building lots of little countries in Australia.

Where does AMF foster Australian values, such as gender equity?
Where does AMF reject sharia law in favour of Australia's secular laws?

Sharia Law Risk

Britain has been allowed to have mass immigration change its local culture to the extent Britain now recognises Sharia Law.

Read: http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3522

Is it only a matter of time before the cultural diversity in Australia pushes Sharia Law here?
read: Sharia law would harm Aussie Muslim women

Want to find out what sharia law prescribes?
http://www.islamic-sharia.org/

Not just 'anti-feminist', try anathema to Australian culture!

At our present rate of growth, we will be over 50 million by 2050, and to keep our numbers “down” to that level, there must be some control over population increases. Without a population policy, Kevin Rudd has been allowed to inflict his own personal agenda of a “big Australia” onto the nation. According to Aaron Gadiel, “the growth of a human society should never be equated with the problems caused by feral cats, cane toads and gamba grass.” No matter the economic, social and intrinsic value of the human species, over-population will make us into a destructive pest species. We are all part of nature and must fit into our finite ecological systems. When demand outstretches supply, then we end up being a destructive force on the planet. Our ageing population is the result of the post war baby boom and our massive immigration program in the following decades. Continuing to add more people, no matter how skilled, will not keep our population young. Once our environment goes into meltdown, all the skills and economics won’t compensate for the downturn in living standards, the extinction of wildlife, or the loss of viable ecological systems that provide our livelihoods.

The Candobetter message about the growth lobby is getting to the mainstream media! Congratulations Sheila N. ""Lobby for developers wary of curb on population" URBAN developers are warning the federal government against arbitrary caps on population after Tony Burke was named the country's first population minister. Urban Taskforce Australia, which represents 85 companies, urged the government to resist pressure from "anti-growth political forces" when it draws up Australia's first population plan, reviewing immigration levels against the strains on infrastructure and the environment. "Any effort by the Australian government to try to lock in immigration or population numbers more than a few years in advance is unlikely to be successful," said the taskforce's chief executive, Aaron Gadiel. "I hope the government doesn't succumb to pressure and try to limit population growth.""

What is this "Alumni" thing on the Australian Multicultural Foundation? Have a look. http://amf.net.au/about/alumni/ They all seem to come from the same ethnic background and most of them are women in burkas. I'm all for everyone being able to express themselves, but is this Foundation actually PROMOTING fundamentalist muslim dress code for women? Some feminists need to get in there at the AMC! Quick!

Senator Penny Wong should have been given the position of minister of "big population". With the failure of Copenhagen, the ETS and CPRS, she must have little to do. Our Government's "business as usual" to growth makes it clear that they are climate change sceptics. Kevin Rudd's commitment to the "greatest moral challenge of our time" has become another broken promise. However, appointing Penny Wong as minister of population would inconveniently link population growth and growth in CO2 levels, and this would not be in their interests!

Sheila Newman starts with... A few years ago I heard about the Australian Multicultural Foundation in the context of donations by the Scanlon Foundation (formerly the Brencorp Foundation) to the Australian Academy of Technical Sciences and Engineering (ATSE) for the production of the "Scanlon Report on "The technological implications of Australia at 30 million in 2030". *** I have nothing further to add, but as Sheila & I were discussing these issues recently, I thought that I would bring this issue to the fore on the recent comments section in the hope that others' will see & read the alarming implications between the way in which this seemingly benevolent & inoccuously named Foundation was started -its membership and consequent development and of its prevailing, extant agenda!

I saw that too. I would not be too judgemental. You would be surprised how all kinds of previously apathetic people can suddenly see the light and become ardent political activists. The way politics is reported in the mainstream media, it is no surprise that many fail to take any interest in politics. And the experience of most activists of the past the past three decades is of having vast amounts of mental, emotional and physical energy and time expended for no tangible result. Think of the hundreds of thousands who protested to stop the Iraq war in 2003 who were ignored. The reasonable arguments they put against the war were buried under an avalanche of media lies and they ended up becoming a powerless minority, even if a large minority. Not only was the Iraq war not stopped, but the Howard Government was rewarded for its deceit and its defiance of those huge protests by being re-elected in October 2004 with an increase majority and an outright Senate majority. The same experience has been repeated over and over again in all sorts of community struggles. Even when majority public opinion remains with the grass roots activists as it more often does, with privatisation being teh obvious example, they are routinely ignored. In these circumstances, the response of many to become apparently apathetic and uninterested in politics should not come as a great surprise. When people start to see grass roots political campaigns succeed for a change, then I think we can expect many to be shaken out of their current apathy.

Once more this seems to be yet another ridiculous summit where the Government has no intention of listening to views other than their own. This is an attempt to justify their holy grail of endless growth which must have been permanently ingrained in the same manner as early childhood brainwashing with religion. "Ever increasing population is good," is the mantra, despite masses of evidence that it is bad . The bipartisan political refusal to face up to the country's carrying capacity is unreasonable. It is imperative that our leaders realize that Liebig's Law does indeed apply, in that the scarcity of only ONE essential resource is fatal for survival, whereas we have many resources such as water, oil, and food which are finite and in danger. As well as early childhood brainwashing we must not discount the massive influence of commercial sponsorship of both sides of parliament and the heavy dependence on this funding. Anger at this corrupt practice urged me to write :- Our land has lived through thousands of years an ancient place with washed out soils We needed no succour from other sources our numbers were few and people were happy WE were happy but our leaders were NOT whatever they did was directed by sponsors who wanted more people to give them more money so leaders told people they needed many more but people were weak and said "That's OK we'll drink less water and share our deserts while the sponsors get richer we'll make do with less." Malcolm

'Insiders' on 28th March included a short piece, I think from another channel, where a dozen prominent footballers were asked to name five Australian prime ministers. Not one succeeded. One said 'Edmund Barton' and then stopped dead. Several remembered Howard and others Hawke. One, at last, rattled off four correct names and then followed it confidently with 'George Bush !' Taking this as a fair sample of their generation, healthy alert young men from the people, although not of the academic minority, I wonder how wisely they will cast their obligatory vote at election time, and at the futility of argument and letters to the editor, when a huge proportion of the electors have not the faintest idea of what the arguments are about, and have not the slightest intention of finding out. I understand that if only 15% of a population is engaged and active history may be changed. All the same another question follows from this observation....with global warming, peak oil and overpopulation threatening mankind and demanding bold and sensible decisions...can we expect anything but tripe from these idiots, and as they appear to be in the majority, are we worth the trouble ?

Thanks you all for your comments. After the cat incident in Cairns, it seems logical that air rifles and bb-guns are those weapons that adolescents get access to before firearms. Access and acceptance to such weapons tends to one more familiar with those on the land or a non-urban lifestyle. It may be worth investigating this in an article. Meanwhile, the 'bevan' mindset and animal cruelty that persists in some communities is an eye opener. Check the correspondence in the following sites: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Air-Rifle-t215353.html http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119277 http://www.ozziehunting.com/> http://www.ssaasa.org.au/ http://www.ssaa.org.au/juniors.html http://www.juniorshooters.com.au/main/Home.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB_gun Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

Our social leaders, lawyers, and politicians are addicted to money. For this reason, the rights of any human or non-human animal, which is not a direct source of financial income, to a peaceful existence, are discounted and often obliterated. We see this in the unsubtle encouragement of anger and violence towards the elderly and unemployed in our society. They are deemed worthless. Moreover the so-called problem of the Aging babyboomers is used as an excuse to import vast numbers of immigrants as cash-cows for the same money-obsessed 'leaders' lionised by the press. See for instance http://candobetter.org/taxonomy/term/393 In general you can only get effective access to legal defenses if you have a lot of money and also if you can prove that you have been deprived of income by your adversary. This means that the poor cannot get justice and also that if your environment is destroyed for someone else's profit, but you only lose ammenity rather than suffer direct financial loss, you have no case in Australia, with some rare regulatory exceptions. Our treatment of kangaroos and other animals is a symptom of this. The vast gaps in status between humans is another symptom. The most prevalent kind of cruelty is industrialised cruelty which permits an immense profit margin to be created by treating farm animals as if they were not alive in intensive farming. It is the same kind of mentality which saw ethnic persecution raised to new heights in Hitler's regime, which industrialised ethnic persecution to make a profit from it, by working people to death, even 'value-adding' in some cases where individuals reputedly made soap and lampshades out of human tissue. All creatures live by death - be it plant death or microbial death. We are genetic organisations of microbes - bacterial and microbial. (Lynn Margulis and Dorion Sagan, Acquiring Genomes, Perseus, 2002; Frank Ryan, Virolution, Collins 2009) In our bloodstreams micro-organisms stalk eachother and viral components of genomes define and defend our external territory. There is no way that we can ever get away from death. The tradition of a man introducing his son to hunting is an old one. It is the industrialisation of the killing traditions which seems to me to be so obscene and dangerous. The use of a gun is an industrial technique which greatly magnifies the reach of one person over another person or animal. With our industrial sized populations there is no way that high tech hunting can be fair or sustainable on other species. The killing of an animal for food, done directly by a person for their own survival is quite different from the killing of animals for profit and for other peoples' food, which distances the consumers from the moral and energy cost of their food supply. This distancing has coincided with default acceptance of cruelty, where once the cruelty would probably have been avoided in most circumstances, because of its emotional cost. There were traditions in hunting and gathering cultures of honouring the animal killed for food, and other traditions to spare different species or reduce the numbers killed. It is industrialisation which gives rise to our hugely overblown populations that are destroying their natural surroundings. Commercial industrialisation has institutionalised greed, simply in order to be able to sell more for less. Partly for this reason our species is not only growing too numerous for its own comfort, but individuals are succumbing to unnecessary diseases which will shorten their lives. Crimmins et al, “Changes in biological markers of health: Older Americans in the 1990s”, Journal of Gerontology: Medical Sciences, 60, 1409–1413,2005; Hossain, Kawar, & El Hanas, “Obesity and diabetes in the developing world—A growing challenge,” New England Journal of Medicine, 356, 2007, pp.213–215; J.C. Seidell, Seidell, J. C. (2000). Obesity, insulin resistance and diabetes—A worldwide epidemic, British Journal of Nutrition, 83 (Suppl. 1), S5–S8, 2000>] Industrialisation not only oppresses other creatures; it oppresses workers. Most of us are yoked to the factory system, even if we work in hospitals or offices. The lowest wages go to the people who work in the least humane jobs with the lowest status. The reason is that low status marginalises and disempowers workers and domestic animals, thus permitting greater profits to be made by those who control what they do and is done to them.

40 years ago one never heard of so many incidents of cruelty such as the story of the shooting of the baby koala. This is just my observation but it appears to me that our standards have nosedived. I am shocked that the kangaroo shooter would allow his 4 year old to shoot kangaroos or to shoot any animal for that matter. A 4 year old simply does not have the motor coordination to shoot a moving target in the area needed to kill the animal cleanly without prolonged suffering . In addition I consider this a form of child abuse as the child needs to understand what he is doing since he is causing immense suffering. What option does a 4 year old have of declining to do as his father asks ? What understanding does a 4 year old have of the why he is committing the act of shooting an animal? If he is told that it is because his father thinks it is a cool thing to do what sort of questioning of authority will he learn? Even if in an extreme situation kangaroo meat were needed for food I still question whether it is appropriate to let a 4 year old practice his shooting skills on a real animal. The other theme that emerges in the article above is that animal cruelty is terrible because it leads to a transfer of this cruelty towards humans. Surely the act of cruelty is abhorrent in itself no matter who the victim? A person who is addicted to cruelty has a diseased mind and urgently needs treatment for this. If cruelty in our society is increasing then our society urgently needs treatment.

Kevin Rudd will use the posting of Mr Burke as population minister to "sell" what he thinks is not a "bad thing" for Australia, while he and our elite will be protected by their property and wealth. We are being cajoled to shove over and share our limited liveable green coast, fertile land and urban areas with millions more people, but why? Of course there will be a bigger "tax base" but there will be more expenses too. Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison said Mr Burke had become "minister for a big Australia" - as Mr Rudd had not changed his mind about the need to limit population growth. This appointment is all damage control - about "opportunities" of a big Australia, and about planning! However many people he manages to cram into Australia, we could never match the swarming masses of people in our South East Asia region, and already many of these nations are suffering from over-population. As for "prosperity", the costs to the public for infrastructure are not covered by the short-term benefits of population growth. This pumped up growth has meant an increase in housing costs, mortgage stress and homelessness. Only a few prosper but for most it means misery. Most of our wealth comes from agriculture and mining, and we don't need a bigger population in our cities for this. As for "national security", surely he doesn't mean more cannon fodder for the ADF? Tony Burke recently recommended more training for kangaroo "harvesters" to encourage China to buy their meat. He is still renegotiating with Russia to re-open the market. Agriculture Minister Tony Burke defended the "culling" of hundreds of kangaroos in Canberra, saying the animals would "starve" to death if numbers are not reduced! So much for accountability to public opinion, junk-science and compassion for wildlife! There are already sprawling and dirty cities in the world, and at a time of global world population blow-out, Kevin Rudd's whim of a "big Australia" is about business interests, not about conservation or about protecting the interests of the electorate.

Yes but where are all the kangaroo shooters now? They suddenly disappeared when the blog shifted ....did they chicken out? Run out of facts have you guys? menkit "It’s embarrassing for Australia that we eat our own wildlife ....I’m here to tell you it’s just not right. Simply do not buy, use or eat kangaroo products” ~ Steve Irwin Sign the most important petition ever created to help kangar

Pages