Comments

On seeing the length of Ted's article I feared it would be just more of the verbal indulgence that is so common especially among the big names. But instead I found very solid content with admirably clear presentation. (NB--I had already adopted the abbreviation TT to denote transition towns; in the following I mean that rather than Ted Trainer.) I find Ted's critiques of the TT movement to be sound. That's curious given that his critiques hardly overlap with the critiques of TT I have published myself (e.g. on energyark blog). But there's a crucial point at which my own perception parts from the above: "This revolution could therefore be smooth and non-violent. If we are lucky the old system will more or less just die away as people “ignore it to death”." On the contrary, by the time most people wake up it will already be even more too late than it is already. And the old system will not release its oppressive grip (legal and political) until it collapses involuntarily leaving us largely destitute of alternative survival arrangements. Ted's proposals of how communities need to change could only come about if the governing local councils adopted the transition ideology as their own. I see zero prospect of that happening just about anywhere. Ted's article seems to start from what is "needed", rather than to start from the menu of what is actually possible. I think Ted underestimates no less than the TTers the daunting ocean of problems the human race have steered themselves into. For the reasons set out more fully in

Dear Ted: Thanks for the very stimulating and comprehensive assessment of the world position and what needs to be done. I agree with all the things you say. However, I think the Transition movement is aimed at doing just the same sorts of things. They don't use words like anarchist because they want to be broadly inclusive, so avoid terms that might put people off. They don't make specific prescriptions on exactly what towns ought to do because they want the towns to come to the same conclusions you describe on their own initiative. I agree that an alternative currency must be based on alternative production of real goods; but I think the Totnes Pound as a demonstration (and it was called that) was useful as PR just to convey the concept of localism. Transition's emphasis on process is quite important, I think, because, although it is not too hard to see what must be done, as you have, it is terribly hard for people in our culture to collaborate in an egalitarian way, without the hierarchal structures we are used to. It's hard for people to get along at all, sadly. Think of the divorce rate, online squabbles sometimes quite nasty, the huge difficulties faced in intentional communities, bless their hearts for trying. I agree when you say the culture needs to change from individualistic acquisitive to a more communal vibe. This is a huge shift. We have to start with the social inheritance we have culturally and work out from there. The excellence-for-its-own-sake collaborative vibe made possible by the internet is a positive trend, as is the new wholistic-type thinking coming out of some business lit (Peter Senge), and from permaculture design. I'm setting up a Permaculture Enterprise Network in my area that will do training and installations of alternative infrastructures such as food gardens, water sequestration, home energy generation, manufacturing of small-scale, backyard greenhouses, chicken coops, greywater irrigation, alcohol fuel stills, worm bins (to begin to self-manage waste), ovens and stoves made of local materials, and also enterprises for crafts, food processing, and the like. Using the existing structure of home improvement contracting, I want to put people to work (after proper skill training) installing these survival systems as broadly as possible then work up from there to town-level projects, when the time is ripe, when best practices have been learned, when new ways have become familiar. A work-trade offer will allow the unemployed to get their own systems, training, and eventually jobs in exchange for their time. This could evolve into a barter scheme and then a local currency since we will be producing what people need.

I think any rational thinking human being realizes at first glance what a complete joke that cover up was and also the official 911 commission report. I mean c'mon, the government spent WAY more money just investigating Clinton getting his 'schlong sucked. And only a few mil for the 911 commission, sheesh? The Commission was a created facade engineered to fail from the get go obviously. The problem with completely unraveling the mystery is that the US Government makes solid practice and is skilled at "Compartmentalizing" projects. This means that they break any project into so many different parts handled by different teams that even the people involved with the parts do not know the whole answer or finished project and only the few upper rankers or "lifers" know the entire story. Combine that with a little bit of murder mayhem and that's a clean cover up! They, like the Vatican, will completely obliterate any obstacle or obstacles in their path to domination. Morals, truth, the American way and justice don't count. The US has been successfully Corporatized. I mean the Federal Reserve is a private company that hordes the gold and prints of paper for the citizens! And why is civics knowledge so hard to find in this country?? It's like most people do not even know the 3 branches of government of their checks and balances; it makes me literally sick. One would guess that even our entire educations systems are in some way engineered for partial failure. Like the Vatican, they do not like free thinkers that think for themselves; those people are a threat to the power establishment. So a mass of brainwashed, not so smart people is much easier control and they don't make a fuss. They just go to work, retire and die just exactly as planned by our power establishment. Compartmentalization of projects or actions allows for plausible deniability at every step. Our US government instead of gaining integrity and skills in serving the country with truth and integrity has become very skilled in deceit, treason and mass murder. Who knows what the real reason for 911 was or if it was a combination of reasons.... Was it the immediate "War of Terrorism" and executive powers? Ha! What a joke. If I remember correctly something like 7000 US troops total were sent to Afghanistan. There are more cops on the street right now in Manhattan. But in 1 year they sent over 1/2 million troops to Iraq for the resources alone and the natural gas line to the Caspian sea. C'mon, I mean they didn't even try to hide it that much at all. I can't believe they give the populace that little credit. Plus the "War on Terrorism" allow them to point their fingers at anyone like a pack of drunk cowboys; Get 'Em! I guess as a whole, humanity is clueless, but individuals are very smart and critical. War Powers, hmmm. Was it NASARA (What a dream!)?? The foreign commodities??? The rumored over 500 billion (or something like that; impossible to know) in gold bullion that was possibly stored there at went missing and only 1 abandoned truck full of gold was found 1 block from ground zero (they didn't get the last truck out in time; hey if you are going to kill a few thousand completely innocent Americans for billions of dollars you gotta break a few eggs!!). And, my God, what about the sorry, sorry, completely retarded excuse as to why trade center building number 7 feel about 3 blocks away??? It did happen to have all the data from the insider trading scandals and many other scandals (SEC) up to the top of our economy as well as the home offices of such organizations as 2 private banks, Securities and Exchange Commission, the IRS Regional Council and the United States Secret Service. Well I'll give you 1 guess as to the one of the organizations completely involved with the 911 scandal at every level; the evidence was wasted. There is a plethora of evidence (way too much to list even in 2 books) and testimonials that we do not even need the absolute "true" story at this point. I think we know enough to realistically point some fingers and find most of the culprits. It if were France the citizens would have stormed parliament and strung those bastards up!!!! I respect France for that; if there is a huge problem, they are not afraid at all of collecting a huge riot in the streets for street justice! In the US (only country like this) the citizens truly fear the government not the other way around which is why they(the government or certain factions thereof) think they can just do any god damn think they want to and the citizens are always completely petrified to even speak out for fear of complete ridicule and immediate loss of their reputation (if they had one) or a IRS audit; you name it. See I think since '63 and the Kennedy assassination they really do believe they can get away with anything. Boy NASARA would have been a GODSEND if it could have just been announced before Gore getting elected and Bush inaugurated (Republicans had Diebold in their pocket and the machines are completely audit-less; SHAME!!!)! Every step and turn of our power structure is protected by plausible deniability. Even most of the fools making the "Black Ops" black metal ships don't even know what they are making or doing!!! One more important factor about the alleged "War on Terrorism". This keeps the nations eyes busy and allows the government to act out their true hidden agendas and throw tons of money at secret projects without too much notice from the public. IE. Like the over 2000 DUMBS (Deep Underground Military Bases; 1/2 of them are prisons) that have been around for awhile now. Meanwhile the poorest 1/5 of Americans have seen under 1% gross change in their earnings from 1988 to 1998. And the richest 1/5 have seen their salaries go over 15% from 1988 - 1998 (true facts and due to Shaw's theory) I think this is one of the underlying reasons regarding what this is all about; socially engineered societies are nothing new and we are not the first by any means! Bush was nervous when he took office I would imagine. He had the NASARA act hanging over his head ready to explode at any time and scandal after scandal pushing their way out of the his large skeleton closet (Bohemian Grove was infiltrated by Alex Jones in 2000 right before the election but GWB successfully reigned the media in on that one. The media is their puppet house!) But 911 changed all that in one quick swift act of treason and mass murder against the very innocent people that enable them to control over 1/2 of the nations GPD) Another problem is Shaw's theory. The very same people that have the power to change policy benefit from the current policies big time; so why would they change and bite their own asses as they further separate the classes and get away with treason, mass murder, racketeering and effective 20th century and 21st century slavery all with big smiles on their faces as they all become mass billionaires. Or maybe NASA and the government are fully aware of a possible approaching brown dwarf star (Huge gravitational anomaly in our system right now. Suns magnetic poles reversed in 2006 I think it was. And the supposed "Super Flare" of 2006 was just a 2000 mile pole shift which completely misaligned the global GPS systems. 5 months after the actual event they came out with their attempted "cooked" cover story of the largest super flare ever; that situation is under the HIGHEST top secret and national security which is obvious because they have went to ULTIMATE lengths to distract, misinform the general public; I understand completely on this one however. I think that if NASA really released the true info that they have regarding where the Pioneer 10 and Pioneer 11 satellites are and what they have been following and triangulating for years, everyone would crap a huge brick and world wide societies would crumble overnight therefore resulting in Martial Law that much sooner. If this one is true, unfortunately, then they must contain control of society for as LONG as possible just to ensure their possible continuity (Not saying it's real, but there is an overwhelming amount of evidence and the usual few "mistakes" the government usually makes in cover ups. And one must ask why there have been several (over 20 and possibly many more REAL Military raids) SWAT style raids on little towns USA live whilst the public is about and scared shitless or arrested, cuffed and thrown on their faces. They say if is for terrorism practice and Homeland Security, but local law enforcement agencies have more than enough resources to handle a situation like the Oklahoma city bombing or others. So what are they practicing for. They are warming up the military and recently created paramilitary organization to the thoughts and practices of being deployed in Urban town, USA. Psychologically preparing them as well for raids on American cities and citizens). I suppose if there is valid "top secret top national security" evidence that society as we know it could be severely hampered or ended by the brown dwarfs passage, then a quick rampant run for full exploitation of every darn thing they can realistically get their hands on makes more sense. Then stashing all the US's commodities (food, crude oil) whilst they waste money at supreme lengths to import all the food and crude oil they can from abroad makes much more sense. Meanwhile they control 50% of the GPD and use most of those resources for their own personal projects and usage. Meanwhile, most of the entire US populations controls less than 30% of total resources. Sounds like another group we know; starts with a V!) These guys really aren't that smart (generally enlightened and intelligent people do not indulge in treason or mass murder ( Hitler withstanding ) for money of all things). They miss data and information ALL the time in their cover ups. LOL. They cannot really think that they are getting away with all this crap in the clean. Well, they are getting away with it so far I guess technically, but in no way clean and concise, but pretty much everyone whom thinks for themselves knows more truths and most people I know are very pissed off about it). Pray for NASARA, what a dream!!!! This government should have been taken down and replaced in '63 right after Kennedy assassination (Also plausible deniability at every step. even the shooters didn't know each other and all ended up dead. LOL). Why do you think my user name is X-Pat? I was born in the US and raised there for 35 years. I am getting out ASAP personally. There are enough way better countries (none perfect, but others with at least some morals, checks and balances that work and a little bit of truth relayed to the citizens; just a little would be nice) that I cannot count them on both hands. Also, the US has been unconstitutionally taxing its' populace since a 2 year program of direct taxation was created in '52 for WWII. After they got their hands on that revenue stream; BAM! Out comes the IRC which is a 3.5 million word jargon and puzzle that no one can understand, not even experienced editors and political authors!. Only the computer age has let use successfully cross reference the entire IRC to find it completely compliant with the Constitution and contains no ratifications of amendments or changes to common taxation definitions at all. So the IRC is just yet another confusing facade created so impossible to understand that poor Americans just listen to what their tax preparer or the IRS says (Yet another private company with the right to police our citizens and incarcerate them for multiple life sentences!) We should incarcerate our own DEA then for them distributing more cocaine in this country than any small private entrepreneur could possibly do. Clandestine activities related to Iran-Contra and Cuban missile crisis; they too must propagate their own way of life and success. It wouldn’t work too good for them if they put themselves out of a job. So they have ended up being some of the largest contraband smugglers and drug runners in all of history very probably. Only paralleled by the United States gun running numbers and armament of countries obviously not morally ready or responsible enough for the power; just for more money yet again. It is a big ugly mess and a house of cards that needs cleaning and unfortunately it has been going on so long now and the power structures are dug in so deep that there is probably only a couple options for full reform. Currently, the American dream that everyone dreams of is nothing but debt, slavery and servitude of the nations elites.

Dear Wait and See I am glad you raised money for a much needed dialysis machine and the Westpac helicopter, but my question is why should you have to?? It is yours and my hard earned tax dollars that paid for the rally, and I for one would much rather see it go into causes like your hospital and the westpac chopper. I would much rather see it go into supporting the understaffed doctors who, according to recent news reports, admit killing people through being exhausted. I also would like to let you know that there was no rock throwing. Despite blatantly untrue media stories, you know how they love a good beat up. They did not bother to show the hundreds of peaceful protestors simply holding signs by the road for hours "Mildly annoying protestors" just doesn't make a good headline. Mikko Hirvonen one of the drivers in the lead is on record saying he didn't see any rocks thrown, the police liason officer with the protestors all weekend was there and said "there was a report a missile, possibly a rock, hit one car" . Drivers who were there, protestors WHO WERE THERE, and rally staff who were there, all say NO ROCKS THROWN. We have tried and tried to get the media to be more honest in their reporting to no avail. They are also wrong in labelling us dole bludgers. We are teachers, doctors, nurses, business owners, farmers, retirees, parents, grandparents, ordinary people who care, just like you. We just happen to realise that changing the law to allow an otherwise illegal car rally to go ahead is undemocratic, that the environment of the region has been recognised as having biodiversity values equal to Kakadu and needs to be protected, and that we do not condone inappropriate use of public funds. The terrorism has been perpetrated by the government and the media, not by us. I wish you the best.

Dear Anonymous, Hmmm you are a complex character. First you talk about ideals and democracy. But you fail to recognise that we are fighting for our ideals, to protect the environment, our rights and democracy itself. Legislation was passed to allow the rally to go ahead!! Ian MacDonald admitted on national TV (7.30 report ABC) that they had to change the laws to minimise the risk that opponents to the rally might use the court system to stop it. Hello?? Isn't that our right as part of the democratic process?? and if it could have been stopped by the laws in place IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. The NSW Parliament website states the process of legislation gives enough time for members to fully understand the consequences of the bill and for community consultation. Again, this didn't happen = corruption of the democratic process. You mention the Victorian bushfires, well did you know the rally is being paid for out of our tax dollars?? I for one would much rather it go to the emergency services like the fire brigades and police, or the health system, or many other far worthy causes than a hobby sport like the rally. When a house burns down, or people die because the hospitals are understaffed and the doctors are tired (as in newspapers last few days), the excitement of a rally is not much comfort. You like many others ignorant of the truth comment on our "dole forms" yet pretty much all of the protestors have jobs, pay taxes and are responsible members of the community. We are teachers, doctors, nurses, lawyers, business owners, farmers, artists, retirees, parents and grandparents, and I for one don't take any drugs not even nicoteine, caffeine, or alcohol. You mention the nuclear industry, why would you think we wouldn't be involved in that as well. I for one have been involved in many anti nuclear groups and campaigns. More importantly, it is all part of the SAME ISSUE - that the will of a corrupt, greedy corporate government is being imposed on the people instead of acting as a representative of the people. You and I should be united - we obviously both care about the environment and true democracy, that we're not is what I find disturbing.

Great show, great event and great people. In 3 days I didnt see or hear a protest but saw thousands of happy people enjoying a very special part of Australia. Cant wait for the next one in two years time.

You wrote, "Yes we may all have some concerns about the environment..." so my suggestion is that we concentrate on those concerns until we're sure that they are allayed and that the environment not be relegated to second or even third place in our minds behind the financial benefits for a few and a week's Entertainment. In relation to your points about the fundraising efforts for the Hospital and the Westpac Rescue Helicopter, I ask: Why is the Government financing a car rally but the procuring of hospital dialysis machines rely on charity and why doesn't Westpac completely finance the operations of the Helicopter that bears its name and carries its most benevolent advertising message? Good on those tireless workers who always have these important and even essential services in the forefront of their minds. Without them we would be worse off but I'd like you to also spare a thought for those who work to protect the Environment for the benefit of all. At the moment, they feel they have been betrayed in their efforts by the State and Federal Governments. The Opponents of the Rally are all members of your Community and I doubt any one of them would deny helping a neighbour in trouble. Think about who they might be and how important they are in your main street as customers, friends, colour, education, artists, activists, protectors, volunteers, shop owners, workers ..... And please reserve your judgement about any Byrrill Creek stories until a review confirms that all of these things did actually happen, the reports are conflicting and alarmist and so are your allegations of Terrorism.

Do these doof parties keep you locked into your home for daylight hours? Do they rip up the roads the ones you pay rates for or don't you care? How often do they happen and why is music and dancing frowned upon? Young people cannot dance? but yeah you'd rather them drive at full ball anytime? Would you really rather speeding cars ripping up the roads at speeds as fast as they can go? Perhaps teens doing drag racing instead of dancing would suit you more? Let them drink drive and be feral on the roads, Hell Rees and Repco think that is a fine future ambition for this area? Our roads are now Rally race tracks safe speeds do not matter! Its only dirt roads and world class at that! Well yeah if Repco and the premier think it is OK then what can you expect,get used to it. I would rather young people dance and listen to music than copy a rally race for fun. The wildlife do not have to run, every 30 seconds to avoid cars, the free youth leave pretty much at the same time safely, with no helicopter ambulance needed to standby. I am thinking If the rally is OK then fine for more rave parties here, If the roads are not going to maintained and further degraded by a rally then I need money to keep my car on the road. Council and Repco will not pay,your rates mean zilch! Let the youth rave,rather than race and be dust too early. Because our roads are nothing but dirt rough and ready for a Rally race, bugger the safety aspect or the maintenance before a rally - no money in that!

Editorial comment: Whilst it is our intention to allow all views submitted to this web site, both for and against the recently concluded Repco Rally known to site users, we draw the line at publishing unfounded and inflammatory allegations against protestors.

Such allegations were made here yesterday by someone claiming to have been an official of the Repco Rally. As well, terms such as 'terrorist' and 'criminal' and disparaging allusions to pot-smoking unemployed hippies were bandied about.

Accordingly We have declined to publish that comment.

James Sinnamon.

I wrote to Rees and others, As above has been stated,

The way the rally was railroaded over our rights as residents and not even the courtesy to ask or the insight to see this is a diverse sensitive area with wildlife and residents in the midst of the rally - beggars belief.

It was-" you have dirt roads and bugger the rest, and it's nearest to the TWEED and gold coast luxury".

Even avid rally enthusiasts were dismayed that it was on public roads in an environmentally sensitive and beautiful area.

We do pay rates and get little road maintenance for it...nothing else.

What we get is Tiled paved footpaths in town (done 6 months before the rally) anda 2 kilometre foot path 1km out of town right in front of the paddock showground where no one walks?
But campers for the rally paying $50 per night (to the council) can walk to the vet? No correction, the start of one of the rally routes and walk into town.

Some Rally spectators have assured me the roads will be regraded by Repco? They will be better and smoother than ever before(we shall see) probably just before the rally returns?

After the rally, our road is now worse than before, large sharp tyre piecing rocks have been gouged out as have holes that have been filled -- now the road is rougher than ever!

We have to drive it. much more often and at less than RTA speeds, unlike the rally cars! WE PAY to use it - Repco, WRC and the FAI do not!

Will Repco-WRC-FAI act as fast as they ran to Rees and FAI and bulldozed the rally into our area? Or will they act like has been done on some other of the rally routes and grade the roads just before the next rally starts?

To add to the sliding-around-corners excitement as they miss a tree/fence or animal and rural kids watching in their paddock.
Well, there were thousands of strangers in Kyogle, the main street a the pits stop mechanical repair area all sunday. What a contrast ,a small town swelled 5 x its population, set in the backdrop of National parks and rainforests, but of course the millions of dollars money made? the one or 2 day jobs created.The Sebastien Loeb team filling a motel.

Will the skills of 1800 volunteer "öfficials" translate into real jobs?
Will it equal or surpass the millions of taxpayer $ paid to host it?
Or do we wait to see if tourism to the area is boosted as rally spectators world wide flock here to get a bag of road dust or drive on the roads and take photos? When hundreds of Aussiewide rally enthusiasts chose to stay at home???

Repco did not honour or respect the residents, bar by posted out giving us resident stickers to enable "free spectating in any rally route"

They did not send out party packs.

They did not ask how many extra tickets may be needed.

They did not return to advise of road closing times,window periods or even when and where we could go look at this spectacle of environmentally friendly road tearing rally racing near us?

Nor to the dismay of locals rally enthusiasts did Repco supply free beer/drinks and food.

The govt even enacted law to stop property owners making a small profit having paid camping.

They also did not advise about medical care in an emergency,or evacuation - lucky no child was bitten by a snake or someone in need of urgent help or their house was burning.

But why should they, it wasn't a residents public relations event our own elected NSW Govt had said no matter to the rights of rate paying residents and democracy doesn't account for them anymore.
I am ashamed and dismayed that a fellow pupil of my same high school could end up a premier of NSW that would then shaft my rights in favour of French influencing Australians or go in cohorts to plan scams against the environment and to Wreck Rural Choice for a rally on public roads!

No, Not in the city or near their homes.

No one thinks big of you Rees or Repco, the way you have sneaked in and pretended to care, knowing full well it was a done deal Months ago.

I did go and see one section of the rally, ($600 a year something back) And I do appreciate the skill and daring of the drivers, I was impressed with the keenness, the very friendly crowd and low key enthusiasm.

The oddity of most filming instead of looking at the cars directly? as they came into view for a few seconds from (3 kilometres away,) TV does capture it better....

Most of all the quietness and patience of the crowd to wait hours for 20 cars.

But dismayed by the dust still 20 metrrs in the air while the cars were 3ks ahead,the over the top police presence, choppers and RIOT SWAT teams??

All that paid public $$$ for 150 or more police wages for 3 days!!
What terrorism would residents or protestors do? To warrant that,
but behold a police state in power.

We knew this event was done and dusted well in advance and the disregard for our citizens and councils rights.

Well Rees and Repco show the benefits the millions $$ made over and above the taxes paid to hold the rally.

Prove it! You're gutless we know,

Show it is perfectly harmless and enhances the environment of this sensitive area.

You know it wasn't right for here because you legistlated underhandly! so no one could have the right to ask for our rights or concerns to be cared about!

It is better out in the dusty roads of the Qld outback.Or Dakhar or acid rain dead European Forests.

Koalas, platypus and wildlife and sensitive forests are places of rarity and peace.

Speed noise and crowds and Rallying are in such contrast and opposite for this area.

We wouldn't see Big trucks and Trailbiking races on Byron or Bondi Beaches as appropriate.

It is the same for here.

Tarmac and highrise and F1 racing go hand in hand where nature has been ripped out and concreted over.

As for those who put rocks on the road it was dumb, but such is the frustration and incredible disregard shown to Locals and ultimately all Australians who want to know that they have rights that mean they are heard.

when that is gone as it is now.

Those with any fight and not meekly saying this is OK will take some stupid and desperate actions.

It should be known that rally races have sweepers go ahead of the drivers and would see such obstacles - the police trail bikes went through slowly 3 x times before the race.

The SWAT team's truck and several police cars 3 x before as well as 10 Race officials' cars.

And of course car 0.

The rocks may have been put there in the brief space between each contestant and that is stupid.

Perhaps it didn't happen?

Much like the media and government fallacy about people freezing dead wildlife to place on roads. Road kill is very messy and usually very smelly and too large for freezers, Nor is it common driving at 40KPH on the current conditions of the roads or you will be your own road kill!

I was run off the road prior to event weekend. By some idiot, So why are stupid rally supporters not indicative of all?

I suppose the only way for most in favour to get a grasp of how this has over-ridden our rights is imagine if The Gay Mardi Gras was going to go the whole weekend in your suburban streets without your consent or consult.

Talk about over hyping an event up. The photos you show on this event are fake and misleading. The blue car at the bottom with coyote in grille isn't even a rally car. Never would a rally car be designed in such a way. What a crock. Protests like this get in the way of the other good work that is done. Pull ya heads in!!!!

I remember this case as it was covered on television, i just cannot comprehend what drives someone to do such a horrible thing to a poor animal. They even filmed it on their mobile phone so they could relive the glory. I just hope there is karma in the world and people who do terrible things pay for them eventually.

I too was at the rally, as a protestor. Yes it is a beautiful part of the world, equal in its biodiversity values to Kakadu actually. Part of the reason it is so beautiful, and rich in biodiversity (which is rare) is that it has been largely unspoiled. The people who have chosen to live in this region for decades have done so because of its beauty and natural environment. Yes you had a nice time for a few days. We, who live here, deal with the interruptions, the rubbish, our towns being taken over, but ALL of us pay the bill. We are paying for the rally with our taxes. You might be for the rally, but what happens when the government decides to host something YOU don't approve of? and pays for it with your money? You might feel annoyed. We are not protesting the rally purely for itself, we are advocating on behalf of the environment, we are protesting the fact that our rights have been taken away and that public funds are being inappropriately used. We have a right to protest and represent a wide cross section of the community including teachers, doctors, lawyers, grannies, farmers, artists, retirees, ordinary people just like you. A lot of fuss has been made about the alleged rock throwing protestors (not true) and some graffiti (we have to live with all kinds of graffiti all the time, that the government/council never bother to clean up). And we too have suffered a lot of stereotyping - "hippies" "druggies" the most common shouts at us were "get a job" and "get a life" (how articulate). We have them. A range of jobs, and rich lives. Unfortunately no media coverage has been given to the aggro pro rally spectators - burly men intimidating (women) protestors, trespassing to knock down protest signs on private property, tailgating and yelling "go rally" as they overtake while speeding excessively, yelling obscenities and threats. Oh yeah, but they are the minority! Thankfully they are, but a much bigger minority than the few alleged rock throwers. I wonder if you were at the cross roads of Sand St and Wommin Bay Rd Kingscliff as the event wrapped up yesterday? There were a few of the yobbo minority doing their thing and swearing at the protestors, but there was an amazing moment where about 60 rally spectators actually stopped and listened to the protestor speeches. It was as if they finally realised that we were actually fighting for their rights (and yours) as well. Even though the police have been advising fans not to follow the example of the drivers by speeding, there is one example they can take - the fairness of the drivers. The protestors who met the rally drivers said they were actually very nice guys who said they didn't know that the rally was going through areas of such environmental value or that they were going past people's houses, and a couple even commented they thought "greenies were good people". Mikko Hirvonen also stated that even though he was in the lead during the alleged rock throwing, he didn't see anything like that happen. Yes, it was a perfect weekend - almost... it felt good to connect with people who cared enough to front up in spite of intimidation to fight for a worthwhile cause, if only there wasn't that darn rally going on....

Schappelle is a scapegoat, a convenient deterrent for other would-be drug importers and exporters. She is one of the small fry, possibly set up to show that something is being done in Bali to stop drugs.

However, like Barlow and Chambers, the small runners were targetted while the big players are safe. The knats are drained but the camels get through! Even if she was guilty, the "crime" is non-violent and people take drugs voluntarily. A 20 year sentence is a violation of human rights. Before the elections, K Rudd made promises about getting her out, (just like stopping Japan's whaling) but now of course he just ignores her! Our government wouldn't like to "upset" Australian/Indonesian "friendship"!

(Subject was undescriptively "Please expand your knowledge" - JS) Have you ever read an indemnity form for any sporting event, e.g, Horse Trail Riding, White Water Rafting, Rock Climbing etc? They are all the same and they don't all damage your environment.

Just returned home from amazing weekend spectating at the rally. Everyone we met and talked to was incredibly friendly and happy, a wonderful atmosphere at each spectator point, lots of happy families enjoying the excitement together. All visitors, like us, agreeing on what a beautiful part of the world the northern rivers area is and how much we'd like to come back soon for a holiday. Everywhere we went people were waving and cheering and smiling as we traveled by, in fact the only disgusting thing experienced all weekend was the destruction of property, vandalism and graffiti caused by a small handful of protesters. We are a diverse bunch of people that have to share this earth. We all have different hobbies, passions and beliefs. But to stereotype rally fans as a bunch of petrol head louts intent on destroying the earth is completely unfounded and ignorant.

Kangaroos and other wildlife were much more prevalent in the past than now! They have suffered loss of habitat from the livestock industries and urban growth, and massive number losses due to the commercial killing industry. Historical evidence is contrary to this absurd official statement used to justify the "plague" of kangaroos theory: Kangaroo numbers in Australia have increased substantially since European settlement due to the development of the pastoral industry resulting in increased availability of food and watering points. Based on scientific advice commercial harvesting of the dominant kangaroo species has been determined to be an ecological sustainable means of managing Australia's kangaroo population. This is pure fiction and is to justify the ongoing massacre of our wonderful and iconic wildlife. How can we protest to Japan regarding their whaling and their dolphin massacres while we keep attacking and hunting down our wonderful kangaroos? Kangaroo populations don't need managing - it is human populations that are out of control. In 220 years since Colonial history, we have wreaked havoc on our environment. Kangaroos have lived harmoniously here for millions of years. Rabbits are an introduced pest. "Humanist" , you have coloured rocks in the head! Narcissism, an irrational herding instinct and destructive arrogance are all part of Homo Sapiens evolutionary flaws!

The large number of kangaroos,is the product of European settlement in Australia.

The emotional hogwash that pretends to be about protecting the Earth and what is "natural", allways comes from people with vested interests, or, of those with a life simply spend in front of a television in an air conditioined apartment, with an IQ below 80.

(Subject was 'Kangaroos'. - JS)

The Kangaroo or any other animal compete for survival. The Kangaroo with the help of European technology has been given a boost, to dominate the the enviroment at the expense of other species.

The Kangaroo in some areas is a bigger problem than the rabbit, on the environment, but because it is a species that has been here longer than others we have to accept different rules.

Only fundamentalists refuse to accept the reality of the earth.

It was bad enough when we have to put with the s#!% piles of the Theocratic looneys, now we have the new Gods of "Cute Furry Animalism".

Whats next sacred coloured rocks.

Sacred sewerage?

Please go back to watching TV, enjoy Walt Disney shit, until you have a brain transplant.

Of Interest, to quote the Northern Star www.northernstar.com.au/story/2009/09/04/drivers-kick-up-at-the-dust Drivers kick up at the dust LEADING drivers in this week's Repco Rally Australia have questioned the safety of the course following two days of reconnaissance in the Tweed and Kyogle shires. At the pre-event press conference at Kingscliff yesterday afternoon, Norwegian Henning Solberg ... said dust could prove the most dangerous aspect of the rally. Hoping to avoid the problems of dust obscuring visibility, Solberg said he had asked organisers to consider increasing the time between competitors from two to three minutes. “I have to say and I said the same after the reccy (reconnaissance) that the stages in the forests are going to be dangerous,” he said. “If the dust stays in the wind it is going to be dangerous. I have tried to have this moved before and they said no, so maybe we'll see what happened in Sardinia. “I hope they can think about it because it's the stage like today that will be a problem but the stage in the forests that will be a big, big problem.” ... Rally Australia chairman Garry Connelly said he was aware of the request but did not commit to a decision. ...

Under Premier Brumby, Victoria is heading towards a dry and arid state, and over -populated by concrete infrastructures and people. His advice to chop down trees and clear the "rubbish" undergrowth is vandalism of our ecology. He won't be happy until all of Victoria is cleared and concreted! He is determined to chop down our old-growth forests and clear "dangerous" leafy areas. Only 8% of old-growth areas remain! Trees produce oxygen, provide homes for wildlife and biodiversity, and shade to cool the ground. With urban sprawl and denuding of vegetation, our ecology is under serious threat, and climate change will continue to devastate our lives. People in outer areas want to escape the rat-race, and now they are in the fire-line of our over-heated summers. We need to learn to live within our environment, not destroy it! Mr Brumby is guilty of environmental ignorance and vandalism. Victoria, the jewel State that had it all, is becoming a tinder-box and is being destroyed.

The comment below has now been published and replied to in this article: "Undemocratic removal of environmental laws opened Repco Rally to violence in NSW Australia"

"You greenies who are responsible for putting boulders on the road and throwing rocks might get charged with attempted manslaughter or murder if you are not careful. It is not a joke to do these things, one could expect it in a third world country but one would have hoped that in a so called educated society things like this would not happen. If you want to protest then do it in a more effective way than risking the life of another human being!

And do not bother denying it had anything to do with your movement, you ARE tarred with the brush in the same way that you like to tar motorsport with the "hooning" brush.

I watched the you tube video and I have never seen so much rubbish in all my life,

Mostly it looks like farming country, overgrown with weeds, so much for the environment.

Farming does far more harm to the environment than Rally could ever do!

After having experienced Rally Australia in Western Australia for 18 years I can assure you that there will not be hundreds of wild animals killed, in any way!

If the people who live and run businesses in the towns involved have any clues they will see the prospects for adding value to what they do or in fact even starting up new ventures all because of the Rally.

The Rally will bring economic benefit to the area and to the state in general, you lot rave on about eco tourism, I can assure you that if the area does indeed have something to offer then the Rally will bring thousands of international tourists.

There is a huge contingent of International Rally people who follow the WRC around the world, just like the people who follow Tennis or Cricket or Footy, yep just the same, and they will be coming to your part of the world, generally speaking they have a few bucks in their back pocket and have great fun unloading the stuff, so do not think there is no money to be made.

If you think however that you should just need to stand in line with your hand out to get your share then you have your head in the sand (or somewhere else!)

An event like this will always have those who are against having it, well we live in a democracy, so if it is taking place then there must be a higher number of people who want it than don't, bad luck!

I suggest that you greenies would be better off spending your time and money trying to fix up a couple of the countries biggest environmental disasters which are on your back doorstep, like the Murray Darling disaster for one!"

July last year the Bureau of Statistics announced that the nation's population grew at its fastest rate since 1988. The growth rate was 1.6 per cent, or 331,900 people. Net overseas migration contributed 56 per cent of that increase. However, according MP Kelvin Thompson, "under John Howard migration rates to Australia skyrocketed. In 1995-96 they were 82,000, by 2007-07 they were 148,000. The number of temporary entry visas, including students, has also skyrocketed from 2.8 million in 1995-96 to over 4 million in 2006-07." The rise may have started under the Howard government, but it has escalated under Labor! The issue of population was treated in a trivial manner by Rudd's 2020 Summit, which arrived at the following vision: "By 2020 we will have a sustainable population and consumption policy: while the population grows, net consumption should decrease." Really? Surely as population grows, net consumption demands will dramatically increase at a time when they are actually diminishing due to peak everything! An increasing population and an increasing demand for natural resources is not sustainable! Surely our leaders aren't basing their policies, and economic growth, on the likelihood of finding another planet to invade in the next 50 years?

With the forces of globalisation and massive corporations like Repco, the people of Australia, and even Federal government policies, are easily dismissed. These powerful businesses lure the crowds with entertainment, profits, jobs, convenience and products, but justice for environmental and wildlife issues is the cost. As populations grow, each person has less say and influence in any debate. With corrupt governments such as that of NSW, it is just the formula for destruction and manipulation. Surely this Repco rally is an excellent argument for the abandoning of State governments? They are irrelevant, expensive and open to corruption. The Brumby government is also an excellent example of wastage of public money and resources, and corporate powers. We should have a democratic Federal government with local representatives. Why not form some blockades during the races? The people need to take power!

Australian Government cultural portal: National parks are usually large areas of land that are protected because they have unspoilt landscapes and a diverse number of native plants and animals. This means that commercial activities such as farming are prohibited and human activity is strictly monitored. Like zoos, national parks have several purposes. The foremost of these is to protect native flora and fauna. But national parks are also there so Australians and foreign visitors can enjoy and learn about our unique environment, heritage and culture.

This is the heart of Australia’s Green Cauldron, nominated by Tourism Australia as a ‘National Landscape’ and a must-see destination for travellers who want to get off the beaten tourist track to discover the real Australia.

Which part of these aims are compatible with motor racing, the World Rally? Of course, tourist income, jobs and entertainment values can over-ride any policies according to the NSW government! It is pure idiocy and rampant commercialism at its worst! Even the Shooters Party is considered a valid political party!

you lot have some very disturbing ideals. unless things have changed in the past 7 days in this country it is still a democratic country. where majority decissons rule over loud mouthed ill-informed minorty groups. in a tough economic climate this area needs all the help it can get. wake up. if you people where so worried about the environment why didnt you persue the the lunatics that set the vic. and n.sw. bushfires last summer that killed many humans and countless wild life. notice you lot didnt take that to court. obvisouly that would have been to hard. but then again you lot are to busy filling out centerlink-recieptment forms. or stessing where the next lot of green is going to come from. you people are such a embrassment to this place i.e. far north coast. also the state of n.s.w. and australia. also notice that you could only muster 22 protesters recently at murwillumbah. doesnt that tell you something. peter garret just approved a uranium mine in the n.t. didnt hear from you lot about that. that issue could be more disasterous than a motor rally. finally also according to brisbane newspaper recently bob hawk told the people that aust. should take the worlds nuclear waste. what do you think about that. like get your priorties in order.

Having spent my whole life working in this area in the actual forests, having worked with, cared and rescued wildlife myself, i consider myself to have a better understanding of the habits of our fauna than many others who cry on the behalf of our mammalian cousins. So far all i have heard is emotional outpouring about peoples rights and to add an extra point to ram home their anti-everything mentality they now drag nature into the equation. It is a mathematical equation nothing more nothing less, the amount of kilometres travel done by any car upon these roads at various times of the day, irrespective of the cars intentioned purpose will determine the frequency that wildlife is exposed to harm. The rest of the nay-sayers arguments are nothing but their outcrying at having failed to impose their will upon the rest of the populace as they are so used to doing and getting away with. It is power they crave to tell us why we should believe in what they do, egotism and cerebral arrogance in the end always shows it's hand. Before they started these brazen claims I was neutral, nay even ambivalent to the event, now i support it, as it appears it has the silent majorities approval judging by the turnouts and positive clamour in the streets, and i have witnessed nothing but professional courteous conduct from the "other side'. How will you look and feel dear "preservationists" when nought but a frillneck is harmed by this weekends events, will you feel silly or plain stupid, no I would believe you won't you will self-justify your actions in some way to avoid the realisation you are part of the problem, not guru's with solutions for all.

Ten years of rapid immigration have been touted as the key to Australia's prosperity. At what cost? Anybody, including elected leaders, runs the risk of being labelled as "racist" by immigrant advocacy groups if they dare to suggest an end to economic immigration to stabilise our population growth. Even environmental and climate change groups have been silenced on debating this issue. However, there is not one long-term problem that can be solved by more people and bigger cities.

This population growth is driven by the Federal Government's record high immigration program for the benefit of the property developers and land speculators who generously contribute to governing political parties. Building developments continue to under the expectation that populations will rise and provide the occupiers.

Short-term economic boosts from an increasing population are evident, but ultimately real costs of unsustainable policies are relayed back to the public purse. Costs of housing, water, power, transport and land are all escalating due to more people competing for diminishing resources.

One-dimensional policies, based purely on economics, are shallow and ill-founded. We elect our leaders to serve the citizens of Australia now and in the future, not elite business groups.

Minister Chris Evans should resign due to his mis-representation of immigration figures and for bypassing the people of Australia in favour of jobs for outsiders. This is disloyalty and perversion and contrary to the interests of Australia.

We can't just "manage" the population if an over-loaded Australia as we do with other over-abundant introduced species! There can be no turning back from human growth and the burden will be laid on the shoulders of leaders in the coming decades, and the next generation.

From Mary-Anne Toy, "Want job, will travel", The Age, August 31, 2009. [Ed.Candobetter: This comment posted a significant portion of the Age article, so we have cut it down and paraphrased a bit to diminish copyright problems]. Toy cites figures from the ABS that every two minutes Australia gains another immigrant and Australia's population growth is around 1.9% - which is very rapid for a 'developed nation'; only Turkey and Mexico are growing faster, of OECD countries. "Ten years ago the projections were that Australia's then population of 18.5 million would be nudging 23 million by 2021. It is now 22.8 million and growing. A baby boom has contributed, but 60 per cent of the increase is due to the biggest immigration intake since the post-World War II boom when migrants from Europe surged here." *snip* Toy says this situation has been dubbed the 'immigration revolution', and notes that it is 'putting pressure on our cities and resources' and raising some cultural questions. Federal Labor MP Kelvin Thomson is described as "virtually a lone voice in Canberra when he argues for immigration to be slashed - apart from the refugee intake, which he wants increased. The journalist describes him as linking [correctly] the front page issues of "climate change, water shortages, housing affordability, transport congestion, environmental crises, increasing prices" to the "officially encouraged" increase in the birth rate and net overseas immigration. She describes some of the contents of Thomson's submission to the Victorian State Government on urban boundaries, which you may read on candobetter.org here. Indeed, Thomson's submission is a really good one against population growth. The article notes that Thomson's seat is in a poly-ethnic area of Melbourne. She reports that Thomson says that "The business community is constantly in the ear of the politicians, Liberal and Labor, urging greater migration," and that ''The cost of increased population and migration in terms of increasing prices and pressure on our environment are not being taken into account.'' Toy writes: "Parts of the union movement are also concerned about the possibility of excessive immigration. John Sutton, national secretary of the Construction Forestry Mining Energy Union, says the huge temporary migrant program makes the already high permanent program seem small. ''The most telling figure I have heard recently is that the number of 15-to-24-year-old Australians working in 2008-09 has reduced by 100,000,'' Sutton says. ''That's 100,000 Australian kids losing jobs at the very point that you have an explosion in international students, high 457 visas, high working-holiday-maker visas. You don't have to be Einstein to work out there's some linkage.'' Sutton says the Government policy of putting business and the international education lobby in charge of dramatic immigration growth was a radical departure from Australia's immigration history. ''And that's not necessarily in the public or national interest.'' *snip* Then there is a small discussion about how Sutton finds it surprising that there has been "so little debate about the size and impact of immigration". He doesn't think the silence will last. [It's all very polite, this kind of journalism, resisting accusing the government of frank opposition to the public interest and totally failing democracy.] Toys adds that "The Australian Conservation Foundation has long wanted a population stabilisation policy, but has never campaigned hard on the issue." [That's something of an exaggeration. Most population aware enviromentalists would probably agree that the ACF has sabotaged discussion, assisted the government to sabotage democracy in this area, and that the organisation has basically acted as a big fat road-block to anyone with real expertise and committment in the area getting to negotiate with government.] Toys describes Charles Berger, the ACF's 'director of strategic ideas' as supposing that the "lack of debate" results from associated issues being "tainted by racism and xenophobia." Now Berger is saying that the ACF wants to slash immigration but massively boost refugee intake. Berger is described saying that the property development industry benefited from high immigration but that there was no serious consideration of the 'long-term environmental consequences'. [Yeah, well, it's taken the ACF a long time to notice too.] ''The question we need to ask ourselves is do we want economic growth or do we want a good quality of life? These two things are not the same thing. As a nation we are jeopardising all the things we love about living in Australia.'' [Wow! An epiphany for the ACF! Sounds as if they might develop a taste for protecting the natural world, but if I were the natural world, I wouldn't wait for the ACF.] Toys cites Bob Birrell, who is something of a professional long-term performer in the immigration policy analysis arena, saying he doesn't think the reasons for the big boost in intake have much to do with concerns about an 'aging population'. He thinks the population push was to keep the mining boom going and that now it's being used to keep the economy from actually seizing up. [Words to that effect] ''Since then, Treasury continues to be pro high migration largely because it, like the big end of town, want very high aggregate economic growth. When they talk about avoiding recession, that's referring to aggregate growth,'' Birrell says. ''But if you're looking at wellbeing of individual Australians, that depends on per capita GDP. In the last year or so we have had negative per capita GDP." *snip* A surprisingly balanced article, especially for a Fairfax paper [comments our correspondent - Ed.]

Oh, I nearly forgot. The only organisation in Australia that formally addresses and actively targets the problem of poaching is the NSW Game Council.

Vivienne,

There is not one part of that extract I do not agree with.

Poaching is a HUGE problem in Africa and a very real threat to wildlife populations .It is also an issue that no African gave a damn about until there was a managed hunting Industry to offset it. True story.
You either don't get it or you've surprisingly come over to my side of the Argument.

You have ignorantly combined opposing issues thinking that the two are even linked. At least we seem to agree on something. Just remember:

Conservation hunting Good. Poaching Bad

Tigerquoll, It must be frustrating to not be able to accept what is going on around you. Particularly if you don't agree with it and it is working! I'm not "eighteenth century" and my opinions aren't a plagiarism of a livingston journal. My opinions are very 'here and now' - unlike your own pie in the sky theories about how Africa should be. People like yourself seem content to derive satisfaction from the warm and fuzzy 'what we really need is' approach to problems, while the world crumbles around you. I am relieved though that the previous posts have recognised habitat destruction and population growth as Key threatening processes (thanks for introducing me to the terminology- we always called 'em KTP's) and also for pointing out my misuse of the term 'traditional farming' when I really was referring to westernised farming methods -surely that clarifies my point. I have spent time in two African nations where hunting exists as culture and as an industry. I have seen the people employed by sustainable hunting and the environmental benefits of this type of land use. I can understand that you are wary of something new in your own backyard but are you suggesting that it is not working overseas?? I dare you. Hunting is not just a sound theoretical concept it has been the most consistently successful conservation tool to date and crucial to the preservation of biodiversity. I say we at least keep it until Zimbabwe is run by Rhodesia, Africans stop breeding and the you beaut protein pill gets invented at a price that an African can trade one of his children for.

I'm sorry but you're a little off the track Vivienne. In africa the largest threat to wildlife and biodiversity is habitat destruction from traditional farming practices. Why ? because people need to eat. So how do you feed people and maintain habitat? - That's where hunting comes into the picture. Farmer realises there's more money in a managed hunting enterprise , knocks down his fences allows habitat to be restored so that the wildlife are encouraged to breed . Wildlife populations increase, surplus is harvested (by rich hunters) and wildlife future is saved. As long as there is always an income from hunting they don't need to return to damaging farming practices. I apologise for using terms such as "management " and "surplus" as I understand how this can offend the protectionists however I'm at a loss to find suitable euphemisms. As for a bull in his prime, it is usually the contrary that is allowed to be taken by the hunting industry with animals at the end of their breeding life that are selected. The above system is working a treat in several African nations despite your dipleasure and even the Kenyan Government (where hunting has been banned for forty odd years) is re-investigating safari hunting in an effort to counteract decreasing antelope populations! How 'bout that. You, Vivenne may not need much evidence to form an opinion however , I prefer a much more pragmatic approach when it comes to something as important as our wildlife.

The problem is that politicians in both California and Australia refuse to address the main cause of these chronic water shortages: runaway immigration-driven population growth.

As this following article from the LA Times points out, population growth remains the elephant in the living room.

Immigrants strain our resources

Our future depends on advocating sustainable population growth, however politically incorrect.

By Mark Cromer
May 1, 2008

As the crisis of dwindling long-term water supplies hangs over the American Southwest like vultures circling for dinner, everyone from academics to journalists is starting to pay attention.

One example is UC Santa Barbara anthropology professor emeritus Brian Fagan. In his article, "Learning from our arid past,” Fagan contrasts human flexibility in adapting to sustained aridity in California a millennium ago with the challenges we face today.

"The future is truly frightening," Fagan writes.

Indeed it is -- and all the more so because elected officials and even many experts in science and the environmental movement have been cowed into silence when it comes to addressing the elephant in California's living room: population growth.

Fagan ticks off a compelling list of warning signs, including a projection by Britain's Hadley Center for Climate Prediction and Research that 40% of the planet will be in a state of "severe drought" by the end of this century. But he only makes a passing reference to our surging population.

That glaring omission might be an act of self-preservation rather than an accident. As the state's ground water supplies grow ever more precarious, the well of public discourse has been poisoned.

One of the early casualties of the rancorous debate over immigration to the United States, both legal and illegal, has been the ability to discuss openly the staggering effects of population growth on critical resources such as water. Because immigration -- and particularly illegal immigration -- is the human engine driving sustained population growth in California and the U.S., addressing population growth means wading into the immigration debate.

Thus, academics, environmentalists and elected officials alike run the very real risk of being tarred as "racist" by immigrant advocacy groups if they dare to suggest serious limitations to immigration as part of an overall strategy to stabilize our population growth.

The effect this has had is clear. There are increasing calls for new water-use policies, tougher restrictions on developers, beefed up land-use regulations and investment in research and development -- anything but a reasoned call for slowing our population growth and then reducing it to replacement levels over the next century. It is politically correct to call for dramatic reductions in overall consumption, to specifically conserve fuel or water, or to preserve what remains of arable land. But it remains verboten among political, academic and many media circles to discuss the reason for consumption run amok.

This whistling past the graveyard has taken on an absurdist pitch in various environmental groups, where it remains chic to warn against global overpopulation but absolutely unacceptable to discuss the immigration that is fueling America's population surge.

I was treated to an example of this intellectual charade not long ago while speaking with a Sierra Club representative who was working an information booth for the venerable group. We chatted amicably for a few minutes about the runaway development in Southern California that in a generation has erased the open space that once demarcated city limits. She seemed pleased as punch to meet a fellow traveler on the issue of sustainable growth.

Then I dropped the "pop-bomb," asking her about the Sierra Club's view on population growth and its effect on the environment. She quickly shifted her pleasant banter into a stock, monotone recitation of the challenges posed by global overpopulation. When I pointed to the dramatic strain on critical resources in California, such as water, and contrasted that with population growth that has us on track to hit 60 million people by mid-century, her response was immediate. She lifted her hand up in front of her, like a crossing guard ordering cars to halt, and refused to talk about the issue. And that was that.

A serious discussion on California's population growth has yet to begin. It is intellectually dishonest for academics like Fagan to proffer "adapting" as a solution without confronting the state's continued population growth. Academics, scientists, elected officials and the media must find the courage to address the issue of overpopulation despite the insidious smears they will likely suffer. The longer we put off launching that discussion in earnest, the faster Fagan's projection of a "frightening future" is going to become reality.

Mark Cromer is a senior writing fellow for Californians for Population Stabilization. He can be reached at Mrcromer[AT]aol.com.

Original article

Now, in the Australian context, does the failure of politicians, the media and mainstream environmentalists to acknowledge the negative effects of immigration-fueled population growth sound familiar?

Great blog Menkit....I just put it up on our Australian site.

See: www.canadianvoiceforanimals.org/Australia-Index.html
and click on: "Calm before the storm" in the left hand column.

Cheers,

Earle

Tigerquoll , once again you cannot come up with any explanation for the well documented success of hunting as a conservation tool and use yet another post to holler your philosophical difference to hunting and the Game Council. If I recall correctly, you are quite a stickler for providing reference to evidence of an opinion when someone has the audacity to oppose your sheltered view but you show no restraint when comparing the level of difficulty between hunting rabbits and elephants - a topic which I'm sure you have no practical experience or scientific reference to draw from , and still irrelevant to the sustainabilty of hunting and it's positive effect on biodiversity, animal populations and rural economies. Perhaps you could have made your last post more constructive by asking a couple of questions like how was the particular bull elephant selected for culling? how many people did it feed and employ?, how much of the revenue raised gets put into the conservation and management of the species? and what are the effects of the alternatives to the use of hunting as a management tool? Notice I have the maturity to avoid using any cynical, insulting, or derogitary terms to stereotype those against hunting. Let's keep this an informative topical discussion. Jeff Borg

No need to go name calling, Just shows your own lack of respect for animals (which includes HUMANS).

I assume from this that you received no reply from Mr. Adams?