Comments

James Sinnamon

Tue, 2011-02-22 23:03

The article Time for Melbourne to think about its population surge reported that a Committee for Melbourne report to be released on that day, 19 October 2010, "highlights a $100 billion backlog of unbuilt roads, rails and ports in Victoria that is getting worse by the day." If Victoria's population had been stable for the last twenty years, instead of growing as it has grown, could the backlog of unbuilt roads, rails and ports be anywhere near as massive? It seems far more likely to me that today there would not be a backlog at all. What we had built in the past, would most likely be serving us well today, with only a need on our part to maintain the infrastructure and occasionally make repairs. It would only have been necessary to build new infrastructure when the old infrastructure had worn out with old age. It would have been possible to keep our economy running with everyone's needs being fully met with a shorter and shorter working week instead of what we have now, where everyone is compelled to work longer and longer hours to pay for higher living expenses (housing costs inflated by population growth, most of all), government taxes to pay for new infrastructure or, alternatively, tolls and other charges that private corporations have been all0owed to impose on us by the Victorian Government. How could we expect not to become more indebted and more enslaved if we allowed our population to keep on growing as the Committee for Melbourne would have us do?

admin

Tue, 2011-02-22 18:47

Mary asked me to post the following on her behalf. - Editor

I want to remind Andrew MacLeod that he says he is planning Melbourne for 8 million people and that I heard him say at a public forum that we have to increase the population otherwise how do we pay for the infrastructure we need. In addition he said as quoted in the Herald Sun that he was "appealing to the MORAL SENSE of emptynesters" to leave. I mean moral sense. So it is a moral issue to quit your house?. Further he says 'they SHOULD be encouraged to downsize for SOCIETY'S SAKE'. Does Andrew MacLeod have the moral sense to realize what effect his words have had on some of the seniors who have been calling me on the phone? How vulnerable it makes them feel?

Andrew MacLeod should realize that we are not a communist state.

Further editorial comment: Mary Drost's words are borne out by the content of the following newspaper article: Call for elderly to give up homes (page 1, page 2, all). See also: Lobby group calls for older couples to give up family homes, Melbourne set for eight million people in 2051, Time for Melbourne to think about its population surge. In the poll incorporated in the the article Melbourne set for eight million people in 2051, 76.79% of respondents or 1019 said No, Melbourne could not handle 8 million people, whilst only 23.21% said Yes, Melbourne could handle 8 million people. The Committee of Melbourne's plans to impose massive population growth on Melbourne is clearly opposed by the overwhelming majority of Melburnians. The majority would be even more overwhelming if so much pro-population growth propaganda were not pushed down our throats by the daily newsmedia, politicians and lobby groups such as the Committee for Melbourne.

Mary (not verified)

Tue, 2011-02-22 13:21

A decrease in population growth rate is NOT a decrease in population. It's a decrease from the boosted rate of 2.2% in 2009, due to Kevin Rudd's "big Australia" push. In their first year, newborn babies grow a big way, with most tripling their birth weight and increasing their length by about 50%. However, this rate cannot continue. There are limits to growth. Bigger is not necessarily better.

No species, or natural community, can continue growing indefinitely. Growth is only one stage of a life-cycle. Melbourne may have grown fast in the past, doubling in 50 years, but - like living vertebrates - the bone structure (infrastructure) would fail ultimately, and shorten lifetimes.

Editor's comment: 'Mary', who wrote this response to Andrew McLeod and the Committee of Melbourne, is not the 'Mary Drost' referred to in the article by Sheila Newman and by Andrew McLeod. In fact, Mary Drost has asked me to respond to Andrew McLeaod with her words on her behalf and I have done so in another comment. Thanks to both Marys and to others for your insightful responses. - Editor

Bandicoot

Tue, 2011-02-22 10:54

How magnanimous of Committee of Melbourne! To slow growth and not FORCE older people out of their homes? Older people like their family homes, their gardens, being close to amenities too. Even if they want/must downsize, why should their homes become development sites - as would be likely? Considering that those promoting growth are comfortable in leafy suburbs, and mansions, why shouldn't they enjoy their homes without being manipulated by guilt? Andrew MacLeod can't understand why Mary Drost doesn't listen? Its because even at 1.4% per year growth, we DOUBLE our numbers every 50 years! How's that sustainable on a shrinking planet and declining Victoria? As Al Bartlett said, people have an evolutionary inability to comprehend exponential arithmetic. Housing affordability - and all the other "shortages" we hear about - would be solved by population stability, and a sustainable economy - not one addicted to misanthropic and unsustainable growth.

Andrew MacLeod (not verified)

Tue, 2011-02-22 07:37

Subject was: downsizing - Ed.

I think it is unfair of the authors of this blog (and the H-S) to misrepresent a policy position and to needless scare older Australians.

The idea of Committee for Melbourne is NOT to force anyone anywhere. Indeed we suggest the application of a policy currently operating well in Canberra and apply it to Melbourne.

What is the policy?

To give stamp duty relief to those who CHOOSE to downsize. When my grandmother CHOSE to move from home to an aged care facility she was whacked the full lot of stamp duty. Surely, if someone chooses to move to an area that has better infrastructure for her needs (aged care). [Completion of sentence missing - Ed.]

This idea is about removing disincentives for people who chose to downsize.

Also, Committee for Melbourne is NOT 'promoting faster growth'. We are indeed encouraging SLOWER growth.

We had a population growth spike of 2.2% in 2009. Melbourne's 50 year growth average is 1.65%. Committee for Melbourne's estimation - to plan for needed infrastructure - is to decrease (that is right DECREASE) that to 1.4% pa.

If you people treat people who agree with you, like you are treating me, then ask yourself how you will achieve your goals.

Mary Drost knows all of the above. I don't quite understand why she doesn't listen to it.

See also: comment of 20 Mar 2011, Committee for Melbourne CEO wants to debate and discuss. - Editor

VivKay (not verified)

Tue, 2011-02-22 05:57

Humans, due to misanthropic political design, are making us into a plague. The evolutionary drive to deny land and habitat to even endangered species is evidence of humanity's predatory characteristics. All species have an evolutionary drive to take dominance over other species and increase their share of resources, but humans just do it better than others. We are victims of our own evolutionary success, and will eat away our future.

Barry O'Farrell's recent policy announcement that the Liberal/Nationals intend to open up Western Sydney to even more urban sprawl, if realised, will have a huge impact on Western Sydney's bushland remnants. How can he support it's conservation and urban sprawl at the same time? How big does our "herd" have to be to ensure our ultimate survival? Large herds are clumsy, and prone to be inflexible, vulnerable natural disasters and over-consumption.

Any development on the ADI site will likely push many plant and animal species to extinction.Toxic urban sprawl is denying opportunities for indigenous flora and fauna to survive our onslaught. Our governments are driven by not only evolution, but armed with monetary power from developers' patronage.

Once the petri dish is full and overflowing, and resources consumed, all that will be left will be the polluted juices as reminders of our existence.

Editorial comment: Humankind's current practice of destroying the future prospects of other species and, through that, ultimately its own future prospects is ultimately caused by the undemocratic imposition of the will of humankind's greedy elite. rather than the will of humankind as a whole. All opinion polls show that the overwhelming majority of Australians don't want high immigration and don't want unending population growth. Yet it is somehow being imposed upon us to suit Australia's selfish greedy elite, who, perversely, are able to enrich themselves from what must make Australians as a whole, on average, much poorer. Even the greedy who are able to gain from population growth, surely can't gain that much as it could only become politically more difficult to take a larger share of the wealth that is needed by ever larger numbers of people, that is, unless, they have plans, they have not shared with the rest of us, to take away the political rights of the majority of Australians. The indefinite continuation of the current exponential rate of population can only destroy the future prospects of the descendants of every human being alive today, including the descendants of greedy elites who are pushing population growth. Even in the Third World countries, which are driving most of the world's current population growth, that is, China and India, it seems highly unlikely to me most want unlimited population growth, certainly the most informed and educated people don't want it. If the majority of humankind are able to take away the power of greedy vested interests, who are the principle cause of the world's current population growth, and control its own destiny, then we have every reason to hope for sustainable future with a stable world human population.

Sheila Newman

Mon, 2011-02-21 14:59

Bayer AG and the death of the birds by F. William Engdahl http://www.voltairenet.org/article167544.html#article167544 Believed to be behind the decline in bee populations that has swept across many parts of the world, a new class of insecticides marketed by German chemicals giant Bayer AG is now suspected of causing the decimation of bird species. It is so effective at killing insects, that it has deprived birds of their basic food. F. William Engdahl points an accusing finger at a system where corporations fund the research, the scientists and the government agents, thus making sure all the cards are stacked in their favor. Comment contributed by Val Yule

Anonymous (not verified)

Sat, 2011-02-19 18:45

The 2003 fires burnt large tracts (tens of thousands of hectares) of alpine country in both Victoria and NSW. Historically, fire in alpine environments has been infrequent, with many decades between fires. After the 1939 fires around Melbourne there was a demand for timber, and this increased access to the Alpine area. The combinations of events that are needed for alpine country to burn - an ignition source, prolonged drought, and severe fire weather - occur only several times per century. However, it is exacerbated by human impacts. The Esplin Report of the Victorian Government Inquiry into the 2003 bushfires concluded that the incidence of fire was not reduced by high country grazing. There was fire again in 2009, not "decades", but increasing fire risks are part of climate change scenario. A government "investigation is being pursued through a 6-year scientific research program, commissioned by the Department of Sustainability and Environment. The program will closely monitor and assess cattle grazing as a fuel reduction measure, including the nonfuel reduction impacts of grazing in the Alpine National Park. Six research sites have been carefully selected to avoid or mitigate significant environmental impacts". Surely the integrity of the Alpine National Park is under more threat from 400 hard-footed polluting cattle than fires? "The research program is being conducted in accordance with the National Parks Act 1975. The government is focused on delivering the best solution to the very real issue of bushfires in Victoria". Most fires are started by people. People going into the park must use public toilets, sometimes pit toilets. The cattle are except. The allowing of cattle into a National Park, and this "research", is a political decision, not based on science. Farming and grazing are commercial activities, and incompatible with the purpose of National Parks. What could there be to research? Cattle trample wetlands, plants and they have been shown not to help stop fires.

sarakellany k. (not verified)

Sat, 2011-02-19 16:06

A better future for the aquatic life. The annual Japanese whale hunt in the Antarctic has been derailed by harassment from anti-whaling boats. A global whaling moratorium hasn't stopped Japan from whaling as it contends that the practice continues for the purpose of science. The Sea Shepherded Conservation Society has been driving Japanese whaling ships insane with harassment and in general the Japanese couldn't care less about whether they eat whale meat or not.

nimby

Fri, 2011-02-18 19:24

The Japanese government's suspension of their "research" on whales is ironic as there are no valid scientific reports on their findings. Japan was never interested in our opinions, the ecology of whales, or the Antarctic environment. Their only research results have been demographic in nature - age, sex, species and numbers- to support ongoing commercial whaling. These results don't require decades to complete or thousands of dead whales. Japan was never doing "research" on whales, or environmental studies. It was a smoke-screen, promoted by the IWC, and unchallenged by our government. When we hear cruel incidents like mass killing of dolphins in Denmark as a festival, mass killing of seals and dolphins in Japan as a part of entertainment and "tradition", it goes way beyond the question of immorality. All applications for approval of the use of animals in teaching or research on animals in Australia - and it should include Australian territorial waters - must be considered at a meeting of the Institute of Medical and Veterinary Science (IMVS) Animal Ethics Committee (AEC), appointed by the Minister of Environment and Heritage, the Minister responsible for animal welfare. It seems that Japan is above the laws that require animals in research to be euthanised humanely (this excludes harpoons) and not in sight of other animals. The Code of Practice for the care and use of animals in scientific research provides general principles for the care and use of animals, specifies the responsibilities of investigators and institutions, and details the terms of reference, membership and operation of AECs. It also provides guidelines for the humane conduct of scientific and teaching activities, and for the acquisition of animals and their care, including their environmental needs. Any scientific research in the Antarctic must be non-invasive and non-lethal and approved of BEFORE hand. The IWC gave an approval for Japan's "scientific research" without a scientific basis. The JARPA 'researchers' insist on using lethal methods not because they are necessary but because they supply whale meat to the markets in Japan and offer an opportunity to train new crew, thus keeping the whaling industry alive. According to the Scientific Committee of the IWC, data such as the age of an animal (obtained from earplugs) and the reproductive status and history of females (obtained from ovaries) can be obtained only by lethal methods. The question is whether these data are really ‘essential’, ‘reliable enough’ or ‘critical’ to justify the taking of the whales that are studied? The only results of Japan's research have been demographic - to support ongoing "harvesting'. The gentle harassing tactics of Sea Shepherd, supported by generous sponsors, and the threat of legal action, hopefully will end Japan's smoke-and-mirrors illusion of lethal scientific "research" permanently. Time for the crew of Sea Shepherd to open the (vegan) champagne for this season, at least!

Milly O (not verified)

Fri, 2011-02-18 17:23

The idea of older people being lured to give up their homes, their lifestyles, their property, for the benefit of those wanting the convenience of living near schools etc covers the real reason - profits! While Andrew MacLeod and the Committee of Melbourne ostensibly are interested in community welfare, they are really interested in profits from the property market.

Many older families have adult students and children living at home now, due to being displaced - refugees - in their own city. How are young people supposed to ransom their lives, their futures, for half a million dollars to buy a home? How are families meant to live in apartments?
Those pushing for growth, for the "benefit" of accommodating people, are themselves feathering their own nests, but expect the rest of us to make altruistic sacrifices!

We already have a new suburb in Melbourne - Fisherman's Bend. We can't keep opening new suburbs, or keep sprawling out and rising higher in the skyline! Humans are intent on eco-suicide? With so many uncertainties this century, such as peak oil, energy melt-down, climate change, erratic weather, world food scarcity, why are we depending on population growth and property development for our economic survival?

Bandicoot

Fri, 2011-02-18 14:34

Cheaper milk and livestock prices means that farmers must recoup their money from somewhere. The most vulnerable in the supply chain are the animals. Bobby calves have no voice, not status, no rights. By allowing more "efficient" handling and 30 hours without food, they are to bear the burden of cheaper milk prices. Also, cows themselves.

Bandicoot

Fri, 2011-02-18 14:31

On the contrary, people living in environmentally friendly single dwellings with front and back yards should make them an insurance against declining living standards and keep them. We need to save our suburbs from high density living and family-hostile apartments. The magnanimous plea from the Committee of Melbourne that older "empty nesters" help young families by moving out and letting developers in is ironical for the fact that they themselves are living in leafy suburbs with large houses and blocks! What morality have they to impose such ideas when they are only interested in lining their own pockets? Single houses with front and back yards should not be assigned to history! They are part of our heritage, and symbol of the Australian way of life - the back yard clothes line, the BBQ, the playground, vege patches, gardens, entertainment, privacy etc etc. By expanding our urban boundary, by accommodating higher density housing and covering green wedges, we are allowing more people from interstate and overseas to add to our population. There must be a limit, and housing is our right. We don't want to end up like Sydney - a city ruined by overcrowding, lack of infrastructure, and congestion.

Anonymous (not verified)

Fri, 2011-02-18 13:28

I calculated that the house indicated above is sitting on 0.22 acres about 900 sq metres, just shy of the classic 1/4 acre block. Bernard should be compelled to sell his backyard and frontyard to make room for a younger generation, and also lease out those extra spare bedrooms to accommodate population growth. Note that many new estates on the urban fringe make do with only 300-400 sq metres. So you would think that people in high amenity areas of the inner suburbs of Melbourne should be able to make do with even less if you use Salt's logic.

nimby (not verified)

Fri, 2011-02-18 12:57

Coincidentally, Kevin Rudd and his wife have just bought a massive, opulent, luxurious "holiday" house on the Gold Coast. It has all the excesses of Magabe's mansion, and more. Due to his support of "big Australia", more people have become displaced and homeless, and suffering from mortgage stress. Not only that, there are homeless people in Queensland due to the floods. While the general public are supposed to downsize, and accept smaller living spaces and apartments magnanimously for the greater good, we have our growth-pushing leaders leading the race for upgrading and adding to their expansive wealth. www.smh.com.au/executive-style/luxury/kevin-rudd-splashes-31m-on-holiday-home-20110217-1axay.html Rudd said in a statement in 2007 that he and his family had stayed at the house several times. "We liked the house and were interested in whether we could buy it one day." According to his story, he was made homeless as a child for a short while and had to live in a car. This experience has obviously not taught Rudd and his family any lessons in empathy or social justice!

quark

Fri, 2011-02-18 11:01

The thrust of Andrew McLeod's and Bernard Salt's streams of consciousness are that ordinary Australians have a moral and community obligation to leave their homes thus liquidating probably their most valuable asset- for the sake of people to whom they are not related and who they do not know. Selling a house is a business transaction normally undertaken at the seller's convenience and in exchange for the maximum amount that can be fetched for the property. Salty and Cloudy appear to be trying to inculcate a new strain of political correctness and social pressure that it is good manners to leave one's house at the convenience of others who have been champing at the bit, waiting for an unpleasant change to someone's circumstances. Such changes of circumstance make people vulnerable to selling at a time which may not be optimal for them. In the dubious "reasoning" of Salt and McLeod, there is a community obligation on the part of the widowed more often than not female but is there any mutual obligation ? Having moved out of their house to accommodate unrelated strangers is there an obligation to the widow on the part of the new family moving in ? e.g promising to move on when her children or grandchildren need the same accommodation? There was a suggestion that stamp duty which is now crippling because of the inflation of property prices due to excess demand due to population growth, should be reduced for altruistic vendors such as the widow . How lovely! Would this amount saved make up for increased value of the house forsaken by the person's estate over say 10 years? Since these commentators speak for the growth lobby they must be hard nosed and they need hard nosed reasoning thrown back at them.

Agent Provocateur

Fri, 2011-02-18 06:08

Yes, and I have another story: my son was run over at work - he required massive surgery to save his leg and eventually got a payout - which the lawyers got a big slice of. He does not own a home and had to live off the pay out for 18 months before he was allowed to claim Centrelinks benefits. He couldn't buy a home, because he didn't have an income to support a loan for the balance. He also had to pay for retraining in a new field of work - he couldn't go back to his old job. Then the tax department contacted him wondering why he hadn't put in an Income Declaration for 2 financial years - they told him he had to put in a Declaration which would indicate interest earned off his payout: a whole $1,130.00. But we can afford to send millions? Billions? in over seas aid - but when there is a disaster at home or several disasters - the government's solution is to tax us more. A solution to the worsening standards of living in Australia is perhaps to 'not buy into it' - i.e. don't buy a house - buy a mobile home or Recreational Vehicle' and deliberately become of 'No fixed Address' ! Much cheaper than a conventional home - every mod con including a fully functional bathroom. Singles or small families can become transitional workers - making life an adventure and a permanent holiday. ... The less you have to lose.. the less you have to lose... I intend to take my own good advice - conventional homes aren't built the way they used to be and are certainly not worth what they are charging for them. Not so long ago a house worth $250,000 - $300,000 got one a view of the ocean or beautiful bush setting. Now it wouldn't buy a high rise cubicle or 'renovator's delight' Ugh! No, I'll continue working - buy that RV and keep my income in that RV - not in the bank where it can be watched. Worry about being robbed? Yes, that's why I won't be keeping the money in a bank.. and has it occurred to anyone that we no longer have 1 Cent pieces? I get no change from something priced at $3.99 - so should I grab a handful of grapes and nuts every few months to make up for the accruing 1c that the shop keepers have helped themselves to? Robbery at till-point is being done by the shop-keepers and business owners - not by armed robbers! If you can't change the World's View - change your own - do some reassessing - give yourself a 60-40 deal - in your favour - not someone elses !

Agent Provocateur

Fri, 2011-02-18 05:25

I've seen some of these hi-rise cubicles - many without even a balcony to relieve the impression of imprisonment. Studios , they are touted as. A room with a bed and whatever else you can stuff in the room. These' horrible, often dingy and miserable catacombs are selling for over $200,000. I should know: I worked in real estate -briefly. If one wants a one-bedroomed 'apartment' - expect to pay over $300,000 - and probably without even a car space - although you might get a squishy little balcony in which to grab some real air! If you see a real estate agent with a brochure or get invited to a real estate Talk Fest banging on about the benefits of squeezing yourself into an early, living grave in order to pave the way for some self-centred youngster or greedy developer - slam the door or run as if your life depends on it. Your (Quality of') life does !

Anonymous (not verified)

Thu, 2011-02-17 23:55

AUSTRALIA FIRST PARTY-: Whatever will benefit Australia - that we are for;
whatever will harm Australia - that we are against. William Lane :-

[Ed. Article was originall published

on 17 Feb 2011. The following has been edited because some of the assertions and their tone could put the author (and candobetter.net) in line for defamation. We therefore communicate the names of the people who have been nominated for the award, but in some cases leave readers to find out more for themselves. Those, who wish to, may view the original PDF document linked from the Awards Page of the web-site of the Australia First Party, Victoria]

PRESS RELEASE

Recipients Of
The Prime Native Australian
Australia Day Award
For 2011 Announced

THE ORDER OF THE TOAD

John Hewson

Anna Bligh

Exhibiting the qualities of a Money Changers Quisling through enforcing the transfer of
the Public Wealth of Queensland to corporate interests in accord with the Globalist Agenda

Sarah Hanson Young

[Ed. terminology here a little strong and we don't have the background to know if your generalisation would stand]

Colin Barnett

Undermining the environmental integrity of the pristine Kimberley Region through land acquisition procedures to serve corporate greed and [Chinese]

exploitation of Australian resources.

Kristina Keneally

Excelling in the qualities of a Money Changers Quisling through enforcing the transfer of the Public Wealth of New South Wales to corporate interests in accord with the Globalist Agenda

AUSTRALIA FIRST PARTY
Identity - Freedom - Independence
P O Box 223 Croydon 3136. National Contact Line 02 8587 0014 www.australiafirst.net email: ausfirst[at]hotmail.com

Voting for other than AUSTRALIA FIRST is now just a waste of time

Mary (not verified)

Thu, 2011-02-17 17:28

Immigration Minister Chris Bowen has rejecting a rising tide of criticism directed at the policy of European leaders who have condemned multiculturalism as a failure- as he unveiled a new multicultural strategy. He said we have a "unique, Australian multiculturalism, built differently to other models around the world." Really? www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/chris-bowen-unveils-new-strategy-on-multiculturalism/comments-fn59niix-1226007226044 He wants to increase support for the Australian Multicultural Council, which will now act as a "champion for multiculturalism". It sounds like another population myth, to support mass immigration. Our own brand of multiculturalism is just the same as those in Europe, but wearing different underpants! We are already multicultural and represent many different ethnic groups, and all sorts of diversity. This sounds like another population myth - that we need more multiculturalism! What we need more than ever is a way to boost unity, and a strong Australian identity. We don't need more immigration to do so. Ongoing "multiculturalism" is a euphemism for mass immigration to support "big Australia", something that we don't need considering the myriad of global and local unknowns and threats this century. Migrants should integrate. We can't have a social "glue" that also celebrates separateness and diversity. It's an oxymoron. Our western liberal values are completely at odds with Islamic draconian ideals. Why should we "tip toe" around our attitudes, our words, and values? He should be aware that most European countries now regret their multiculturalism agenda and are now paying for it with high social security costs, slum neighborhoods, social division because of non integration. possible home-grown terror cells. There is a rising anti-immigration movement in Europe, and "Europeans" are becoming a minority.

admin

Thu, 2011-02-17 09:52

Consumer "choice"

In truth, much choice that consumers should rightly expect in a competitive market does not exist.

Why is it that it is impossible to buy high technology devices that have standardised parts[1] and in which all the parts are durable beyond only a few years? Why is it that so many computers and peripheral devices are very hard to run to their full capacity or at all without and which don't depend upon the installation of expensive proprietary mostly Micro$oft proprietary software?

All this is what many consumers would want and should be easily possible within the technological and financial capabilities of manufacturers, yet nearly all choose not to and force consumers to buy computers which can be rendered useless by the loss of a small part which is very hard and expensive to replace and which are only expected to last a few years.

If the theory behind our supposed 'free market' competitive system causing consumer needs to be better met had any substance, then consumers would easily be able to buy good quality, durable and simple-to-operate high technology equipment. The fact that they are not able to can only be explained if manufacturers must have colluded to the point necessary to ensure that none offer such products to their consumers. (See also article by Sheila Newman Supermarkets acting as a cartel against farmers, cows and the rest of us.)

Democracy confused with capitalism?

I can't see where Vivienne Ortega has confused democracy with capitalism. Certainly, contrary to the Cold War propaganda that we were fed for decades whilst 'Communism' was seen to pose a threat to capitalism, 'capitalism' and 'democracy' aren't the same. (They should not be mutually exclusive either, but in practice, they usually seem to be.)

I find it striking how little 'democracy' is discussed by the mass media these days other than when it, of political necessity, describes our system of government as 'democratic'.

Rarely do we find the term 'democracy' used in articles or commentary habitually produced by our media in praise of our political leadership for making 'tough' decisions against the known wishes of their fickle constituents, the most striking of which have been the privatisations of publicly owned assets, almost invariable opposed by an overwhelming majority of public opinion-- Telstra, Government owned, Insurance companies, Government owned banks including the Commonwealth Bank, government owned electricity generators, public transport, etc.

In fact, nearly every such 'tough' decision has been demonstrably harmful to the public interest and economic efficiency.

If Australia had been run in a truly democratic way for the last four decades, there can be no doubt that much more would be still owned by the Australian people, we would be more prosperous, there would be little poverty (and much more of our natural environment would have been preserved).

Footnotes

1. Admittedly, standardisation would be hard to achieve in a true free market system and would, in fact, require collusion, even if a more benign form of collusion, amongst manufacturers. This is one field in which government regulation would obviously benefit consumers and make our economy more efficient. (In fact, German manufacturing is standardised today because of decisions made by Hitler. For all that man's monstrous crimes against tens of millions of Europeans, he should at least be given credit for that.)

Sheila Newman

Thu, 2011-02-17 03:29

A problem in a lot of this analysis is the confusion of democracy with capitalism. The USA seems to use the two words interchangeably and to treat corporate invaders as missionaries for democracy, when all they are doing is forcibly marketing the religion of consumerism. The public in the so-called democracies thinks that 'choice' is a 'human right' that is protected in Australia (read the Human Rights Inquiry). "Choice" has been marketed this way by commercial interests. Democracy has also been marketed by commercial interests. Why do we fall for it? Sheila Newman, population sociologist home page

KaitlinB (not verified)

Tue, 2011-02-15 20:40

Natural gas or alternative gas is what we aim for nowadays. But at some point, this leads us to harm like natural gas explosion. I think this can't be avoided but it can be prevented. Only if people know its pros and cons. In Allentown, Penn., one person is dead and 5 is missing due to an explosion. The explosion took place around 10:45 p.m. local time. At least sixteen homes have been ruined by the still-burning fire. 6 homes, at least, have been wrecked as well.

nimby

Tue, 2011-02-15 08:51

Mr. Sen said his writings on famine frequently noted the problems India has had in feeding its people, and he was baffled by the amount of attention his comments about famine and democracy had received. Mr. Sen's views about famine and hunger were reviewed by Dan Banik, an Indian-born political scientist at the University of Oslo. He found 300 starvation deaths in six months in India in the desperate Kalahandi region of Orissa. Mr Sen said there has not been a large-scale loss of life since 1947, only small numbers - not hundreds of thousands of deaths! The Indian government has a national network of ration shops, but they have been undermined by widespread corruption and distribution bottlenecks. During the Bengal famine Mr Sen experienced as a child, he found that food production in Bengal had not declined. Rather, food prices had soared while farm wages had sagged, making it hard for rural workers to buy food. Even more recently in Ethiopia and Bangladesh, Mr. Sen found that they, too, were caused not by food shortages but by lagging rural incomes. Today Ethiopia is democratically governed, but as many as six million people remain dependent on food aid from abroad. In August 2008, the head of the dictatorship in Ethiopia flatly denied the existence of famine. There are millions of fertile hectares of land under “lease” or sold outright to foreigners to feed millions continents away when millions of Ethiopians are starving. Foreigners in democratic countries? Belief and adherence to democracy is no cure-all for problems like hunger and illiteracy. Overpopulation may cause poverty, hunger and water shortages. Overpopulation may cause violence and war. Overpopulation may cause refugee flows. Democracy may not be enough to protect us from famine any longer. We can't negotiate with our planet. Earth is a bounded sphere, and human population growth and consumption growth will eventually be reined in. We must give up at least some human rights if we are to avoid nature's solutions to overpopulation - famine and disease and conflict over limited resources. In April, 2009, head of dictatorship Zenawi gave an interview in which he openly admitted that famine is rearing its ugly head once again in Ethiopia and other parts of Africa. According to Sen, such a thing would be unthinkable in a functioning multiparty democracy! International organisations, politicians and the media talk about “food insecurity ”, “food scarcity”, “food insufficiency”, “food deprivation”, “severe food shortages”, “chronic dietary deficiency”, “endemic malnutrition” and so on just to avoid using the FAMINE word. Maybe part of the reason why democracies avoid wholesale famines is their ability to compromise and exploit overpopulated and developing countries corrupted by lack of leadership. Amartya Sen believed that a country need not force upon its people the concept of family planning. In Kerala, a state in India, he says, democratic discourse has helped bring down fertility rates. It has had a dramatic fall in family size, lowest birth rate, low infant deaths, and the women outnumber men. It has adopted a holistic approach--commitment to reading and writing, female literacy, good health care, better working conditions, supply of food to school children. As a result fewer children die; families are also smaller. Yet, Kerala has the highest unemployment rate and morbidity rate (suicides, tension, heart attack). People above the poverty threshold have long since realized that two kids are just enough. There is more complexities today than lack of democracy and corruption. The UN's Food and Agriculture Organization's Food Price Index hit an historic peak in January, protests against swollen prices seemed to erupt together across disparate corners of the developing world. Jordan, Algeria, Yemen, India, Mexico and Bolivia have all experienced turmoil. If climate change starts to affect agriculture, that would have bigger consequences beyond food security, disrupting the economy itself. Egypt is the biggest importer of wheat and it's not going to produce its own, yet their population continues to climb. Read more: Food shortages caused by global warming may be cause of world-wide unrest - Whittier Daily News http://www.whittierdailynews.com/news/ci_17372948#ixzz1E0RWBery We have climate change, population peak, peak oil, depletion of soils and limited potable water all converging this century. Food supplies grow slowly, Malthus said. But consumers multiply like rabbits. A geometric progression outstrips an arithmetic one every time. Every scene of malnutrition and starvation revives the old Malthusian fear. Even if the planet can carry another 2.3 billion people, the equivalent of another India and China, where will the food come from?

Mary (not verified)

Mon, 2011-02-14 17:32

Italy has declared a humanitarian emergency after thousands of asylum seekers sailed across the Mediterranean Sea from Tunisia, overwhelming authorities. People have come from nearby Tunisia, in the wake of the country's revolution recently. A brewing famine is an advantage for Islam as they will be able to immigrate to Europe and call "racism" if they are denied. This is despite high unemployment in Spain and Italy already. Food riots going on in countries like Egypt will mean access to Europe and more opportunities for immigration. Nobel laureate Amartya Sen famously said that famines do not occur in well-run, democratic countries. The same is almost always true for cholera epidemics. Thirty years ago Amartya Sen wrote a report showing famines were not caused by a shortage of food. He was 10 during the Bengal Famine of 1943. He said that many human beings, if not most, could survive on 15% less food than they ate the year before (easier for some of us than others). People die of starvation only in areas with no free media.

tim

Mon, 2011-02-14 07:10

How appropriate. I just spent 3 days camped out in the paliative care ward at the Richmond Hospital. Mum was one of the few caucasians present. This is the place where the elderly chinese (recently brought over via family reunification) come to die and largely at our expense. The tax on the medical system is impressive ... The good Canadian (Habs fan) orderly is thinking of heading to Saskatchewan to escape the intolerable housing market in Vancouver ..... I advised him that even there, all its not good due to the recent ramp up in migration/immigration to that province. K

Mary (not verified)

Sun, 2011-02-13 10:45

The news has been overwhelmed by stories of suffering, dispossession and deaths due to Queensland's floods and cyclone. Disasters reveal the extremes of good and bad in people. Cassowaries are under threat now, even more than before as limited habitats have gone. Even Anna Bligh came out with glowing reports of her support during Queensland's recent trials. However, little is said about the heroes of animal rescuers, and the horrible consequences of disasters. We know of someone in St Andrews who had a herd of lovely alpacas, about 100, and they all died in Black Saturday's inferno. Their deaths would have been horrific. These sensitive, intelligent and gentle animals would have had no defence against the heat and smoke and flames of the fires, and they would have been trapped.

nimby

Sun, 2011-02-13 09:10

The lessons of decline of electricity supply due to privatisation in Victoria, and the consequential effects, should have been taken by NSW before their fire-sale. Victoria's State Electricity Commission (SEC) generated and sold power to Victorian consumers from 1926 to 1998. In every single year it reduced the real price of power to customers. The SEC ensured cheap and safe power management for Victorians. The Victorian Liberal Government of Jeff Kennett in the 1990s decided to sell the SEC to a private power-generating company to pay off some of Victoria's debt. It was assured that the company would do a better job than the SEC, and more cheaply. The SEC also trained thousands of apprentices in electricity and other workplace skills.The SEC (Vic) used to have its own apprentice intake twice a year, now that they don't exists the apprentice numbers have dropped, at a time of Australia's so-called "skills shortages". Many of these highly skilled tradesmen found their way into the wider workforce. In a similar manner, the SEC also trained engineers and other skilled workers, not all of whom chose to remain in the commission's employ but became independent tradesmen. Either way, the community got the benefit of skills-training provided by the SEC. The current privately-owned generating companies do none of this. What is favourable about privatisation of electricity generation and distribution is simple — public ownership allows too much bargaining power to electricity workers and their unions. Privatisation bypasses the public's grass-roots level political powers. The idea of privatisation is that competition will mean that prices will fall, service reliability will be improved and governments will be able to use the income from privatisation on public infrastructure, and paying off public debt. It's not about service and ownership, but profits and free market forces. In the tragic Black Saturday bush-fires, some fires were started by poorly maintained power lines. The SEC maintained its generating and delivery systems in pristine condition. Private companies can neither afford to do what the SEC did, nor can they ensure back-up electricity generation to help with demand surges. The sale of the power industry was about politicians selling off long term benefits for short-term gain. Private companies are there to make profits, not provide a public service. What appears now is a collusion between electricity sellers, and it appears that we have a monopoly not of public owned provider but between privately owned companies. Competition is stifled and we end up with less services and increasing costs! With a price on carbon, the costs will be passed onto consumers. Prices could even double! Now, there are issues with Brumby's ill-advised Smart Meters. They are mandatory. That imposes serious obligations on those who are forcing them into 2.5 million homes and businesses. Whistleblowers are stepping forward. They say training is inadequate, and supervision rare. It's made worse because 75 per cent of installers are paid per job, not by salary. Installers are under qualified, and they are using Indian subcontractors. There are reports of badly installed meters, causing threats to safety. Smart Meters are supposed to be more efficient in tracking energy usage, but they also allow energy retailers to charge more for electricity during times of peak demand. Unless you work night shift and sleep all day, and most people don't, you'll almost certainly end up with higher electricity bills once you get a smart meter. People at home during the day will get slugged the most - pensioners, the unemployed, stay-at-home parents and people who work at home.

admin

Sat, 2011-02-12 22:39

Floods and fires have rendered many people homeless and carrying debts for useless properties. Insurers are raking in money from these situations. It is obvious that disaster is good for big business (which governments invest in) and bad for small business and ordinary people, about whom governments and political parties seem to care very little. We don't need to go overseas to find climate refugees. That is the irony. I recently received an email about the huge disparity between the vast amount our government gives to overseas disaster aid compared to the quite small amount that it gives local disaster victims. The figures were striking. I didn't republish it because I did not want to appear to endorse begrudging disaster aid to anyone and because most disaster aid finishes up in the construction industry's pockets. This is a really hard area to find solid ground in. Sheila N

admin

Sat, 2011-02-12 20:29

Chapter 2 of Jim Saleam's The Other Radicalism: An Inquiry Into Contemporary Australian Extreme Right Ideology, Politics And Organization 1975-1995 seemed to me like a very well well-reasoned examination of the use of far-right wing groups by the Australian state against left-wing groups and anti-war movements from the end of the second World War through the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's and beyond, until I read the following:

A Special Projects Section (of ASIO) carried out individually crafted operations to enervate the Left, with ‘Operation Whip’ targeting the anti-war movement (1969-72) to ensure it did not foment urban-guerrilla warfare.

It is not believable that Australia's national political police force ASIO (the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation) could have truly feared "urban guerrilla warfare" by domestic left-wingers. It is not believable if the words "warfare" and "guerrilla" mean what they are normally taken to mean, that is deadly violence with guns, explosives and other lethal weapons (and not just street fist-fights between rival political groups).

Those, who who would have had the most to fear from "urban-guerrilla warfare" would have not been ASIO or the authorities but, in fact, genuine left-wingers, anti-war activists and other progressives.

In fact, the democratic rights that we enjoyed back then -- our rights to protest, vote, to free speech, to join, participate in and campaign for political parties and to stand for elections ourselves -- made it possible to end the Vietnam War, end the loss of lives of Australian servicemen and the far greater loss of Vietnamese lives and throw out the Federal Liberal/Country Party Government that led us into that war as we did in 1972. (Of course, Australian democracy has taken many turns for the worse since 1972, but what happened then shows just what was possible and what may be possible again if we keep cool heads.)

If any group had actually started "urban guerrilla warfare" in the 1960's and 1970's, it would have provided the authorities an excuse to repress opponents with prison or worse, to take away their rights to free speech or possibly even to abolish democracy altogether.

Why would any right-minded Australian left-winger have taken that risk by engaging in "urban-guerrilla warfare"?

If a campaign of "urban guerrilla warfare" had actually been launched, it would have been safe to assume that those behind it would have been either deluded patsies or else agents consciously seeking to undermine the anti-war movement and democracy.

It is of concern that Jim has apparently been taken in by what could only have originated as deliberate disinformation. Let's hope that this mistake is quickly realised, acknowledged and explained and that his generally excellent writing contains no other pieces of harmful disinformation.

nimby

Sat, 2011-02-12 08:19

Melbourne and Sydney have the highest cost housing in the world. Our property market has opened up to international buyers so foreigners can build and buy new properties and be landlords, or have points towards immigration and live here. The outer urban fringes are where people could still buy almost "affordable" housing - or cheaper than normal - but (mainly) Chinese investors, and a smaller number of Indonesians, are being encouraged to buy and thus keep the housing industry afloat. Developers court overseas buyers amid fears of greater urban sprawl The Age Feb 7 MAJOR builders and developers on Melbourne's urban fringe are selling up to half of some new housing estates to overseas investors and those hoping to migrate to Australia. Australians are being priced out, but well-heeled foreigners can take their place and potential home-buyers be by-passed in their own country. Globalisation is economic treachery! Our biggest industries in Australia today relies on population growth. The fact that for most of us we are getting poorer and we are being priced out of home ownership/renting is a sign that our government cares little for the average people and families. Australia is on the downhill decline due to competition with outsiders, population growth and globalization. Being homeless is not about trivial "whinging". It's a basic human right. We still hear that "Aussies never had it so good"? These people must be very young! Australia used to be the Lucky Country with the highest level of home ownership in the world. Housing used to be cheap, and even working families could afford them - and even "holiday" houses - something unheard of now except for the wealthy. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, Australia used to be wealthy. We "rode on the sheep's back". Poor leadership, globalisation, population growth, greed and destruction have all impacted on our way of life for the worst. "Homelessness is nothing new"? It used to be mainly marginal groups, but now families with children are the biggest group of homeless. The demand for public housing is escalating. This generation are mainly naively unaware of just how Australia has declined.

James Sinnamon

Fri, 2011-02-11 23:16

Thanks, John Marlowe and Jim Saleam, I will be sure to read the documents Jim Saleam has linked to with interest and an open mind both ways. I certainly concur with John Marlowe's comments about the social welfare system. On at least two occasions in my life when I was out of work through no fault of my own I could not bring myself to face Centrelink, even tough I knew I was legally entitled to support. Instead, I lived on my savings on one occasion and money I had received for my share of equity in mortgaged house after a break-up on another. Astonishingly the daily Murdoch press still periodically tries to whip up public resentment of Centrelink benefit recipients. An article, in last Friday's Herald-Sun made the lying claim that unemployed could live comfortably in a share house when even those on professional incomes are struggling to meet the rent. Not long ago, married couple with a child in a half-house flat next to me broke up. The rent had been jacked up repeatedly in recent years. Whilst this may not have been the only cause of the break up it certainly would not have helped. During the 2008 Queensland elections, in which I stood as a candidate, I met a women on unemployment benefits who had recently lost her secretarial job. She was sharing not just a house, not just a flat, not just a room, but a bed with a person she was not even intimate with. No journalist covering this issue could be unaware that anyone receiving only the pittance of Centrelink entitlements, could not possibly be living in anything but poverty.

Sheila Newman

Fri, 2011-02-11 23:04

Meanwhile the real drain on taxpayers is not the unemployed or pensioners, it is the property developers who drive up the cost of land and everything with us and make us all poorer in every way. We should demand much better treatment for the unemployed and ensure that their savings are not sacrificed and that their mortgages are frozen whilst they have no incomes.

Milly O (not verified)

Fri, 2011-02-11 18:24

The assets limits for Centrelink benefits, not including your own home, used to be over $400,000, but now it is now less than $200,000. Anyone who has savings, or investments, is being penalized. You are on your own. This means that unless the savings are put into an government approved superannuation fund - one that they can control - you must dip into your nest egg. Capital must be liquidised for running costs. It bars baby-boomers and anyone who has had the ability or salary to save. The only people who can get benefits now are refugees, the very poorest and marginalised, or the young. Family situation For Homeowners For Non-homeowners Single $181,750 $313,250 Couple (combined) $258,000 $389,500 Illness separated (couple combined) $258,000 $389,500 One partner eligible (combined assets) 258,000 $389,500 Going to Centrelink is invasive, and revealing every detail about your assets to the last detail, revealing every bit of income, lining up for appointments, checklists, and job agencies is one designed to humiliate the genuine unemployed or retrenched. Our society is being divided into a a disadvantaged, impoverished underclass by importing skilled workers from oversea. Poverty becomes a trap. It's about saving money on education and poaching the ready-skilled from oversea.

Anonymous (not verified)

Thu, 2011-02-10 14:50

Subject was: From Inky Stephensen - 1939 Issue of 50 Points for Australia

AUSTRALIAN CULTURE: Point 2, “for Australian culture; against imitativeness,” implies an obligation upon all Australian individuals, whether as private citizens or as components of the Government, to foster the growth of a distinctive National Australian culture in Australia, as a means of preventing intellectual and biological decline; for a nation without pride in its own traditions could not endure: and it is the distinctiveness of culture and custom which differentiates one nation from another, and thus creates National Unity, National Consciousness, the pre-requisite of National Survival. Lacking a distinctive Australian culture, Australians are nondescripts: and the utmost to which they could aspire would be to excel in imitation. By seeking to conform with cultural habits originated elsewhere, Australians brand themselves as uncreative mediocrities, despised by those they imitate. The opportunity to establish and maintain a distinctive Australian National Culture is thus the opportunity to establish and maintain a distinctive Australian Nation. If this opportunity is declined or shirked, the Australian community will vanish from history, without trace.

Editorial comment: Thanks for this. Related links I obtained from a crude 'Google' search include:

P. R. Stephensen by Kerry Bolton

'Their Ultimate Absorption': Assimilation in 1930s Australia by John Chesterman and Heather Douglas

Eras Journal - Georgina Fitzpatrick, Inky Stephensen's internment ... (PDF)

PERCY REGINALD STEPHENSEN (PDF)

Bandicoot

Thu, 2011-02-10 10:34

The NSW Government's $5.3 billion electricity sell-off was a News- Yahoo - "mad dash for cash" carried out with "appalling" timing, says a former director of a state-owned energy company. Overall the deal netted the state government $5.3 billion, an amount heavily criticised for being poor value by the state opposition.

Editor: The original article was published in the Australian here: "Chaos hits $5.3bn NSW power sell-off as directors on two boards quit in protest " therefore we cannot publish it on candobetter.net. I will put this ammended version of this comment on the front page as an article because it is important.

It goes on to say that the NSW Greens are going to "introduce legislation in the next parliament to return the electricity industry to public ownership and stop future governments selling assets without the approval of both houses of parliament, Greens MP John Kaye announced on Saturday 5th Feb.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8206806/nsw-greens-vow-to-reverse-electricity-sale

Wish the Victorian Greens and the Queensland Greens would stand up on their hindlegs over privatisation as well.
We have previously carried a few speeches by John Kaye on this issue.

Here is what John Kaye has published on his website:

Welcome to the website of Greens NSW MP John Kaye

John Kaye is a Greens member of the NSW Legislative Council

Stop the Power Sell-Off

  • All power privatisations are bad for the economy, employment, hoNSW not for sale_small.JPGusehold power bills and the environment.
  • This power sell-off is particularly bad: profits from the sale of electricity are being handed over to the private sector, but many of the financial risks remain with the public.
  • Reducing NSW's contribution to climate change will be much more difficult and expensive if the private sector has control of the generator outputs. The power industry creates 40% (60 million tonnes CO2 per year) of this state's greenhouse gas emissions.
  • Household power bills will increase as the gentraders seek to make more profit.
  • Jobs will be lost after the protection period expires. Call centre work will be sent overseas.
  • NSW is losing a valuable income stream worth much more than the $5.3 billion sale price. The assets that have been sold return $750 million a year which pays for teachers, nurses and hospitals. The structure of the sale (gentraders), uncertainty about the future of carbon prices and the brewing international economic storm have minimised the sale price.
  • Secret deals to subsidise coal prices for the gentraders mean that NSW taxpayers will be footing the bill for years to come.
  • The Keneally government has no mandate to sell the gentraders or the retailers. Privatisation was not mentioned during the last election.
  • Opinion polls show that the people of NSW oppose electricity privatisation. Parliament has an obligation to tell the government they should cancel the contracts and keep all of the power industry in public hands.

Some points about the transaction:

  • The resignation of the directors of the state-owned generators is a measure of how uneconomic the deal is for NSW.
  • Proroguing parliament and intimidating inquiry witnesses show that the Keneally government has much to hide.
  • The people of NSW have a right to know what Treasurer Roozendaal and the Keneally government have done to their power assets.

It's not too late to reverse the sell-off

The Keneally government has walked away from the mess they have created leaving NSW with a dysfunctional electricity industry.

The unsustainable mix of private gentraders at some power stations and public control at others can only be resolved by reversing the original sale.

The collapse of the second wave of sell-offs will make it easier to bring all of the state's coal-fired generators back under public control.

Take action! 

Send an email message to be sent to members of the NSW Legislative Council ('Upper House') to voice your opposition to the Treasurer's power sell-off and to call for the sale to be reversed.

Anonymous (not verified)

Tue, 2011-02-08 01:14

Subject was: The UK Today----And The UK To Come----Will It Be Our Fate Too?

Britain's Police State in all its grim unglory.

Things you wont see on the news;

UK SS (Social Services) kidnap one more child from his house

www.stateintervention.com

Editor's coment: Thanks, for the interesting links, but could I suggest that commenters also at least write short notes which provide some introduction to the material being linked to. In fact, the
About page of the web-site http://www.stateintervention.com linked to above provides what seems to be a clear, level-headed and reasonably succinct summary of the material on that site and behind the disturbing scene captured on the You Tube video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JinZDKglVdQ&feature=related . However the video with a length of almost 15 minutes could have used a bit of editing and explanatory comments. It shows a father and his son, confronting in their own home, police and social workers trying to take the boy away, which happens at the end of the video. I would certainly be interested in hearing how the police and social workers in that video justify themselves. In the "about" page Mark McDougall concedes that "Sometimes, Government intervention is necessary in order to maintain order and the safety and security of children." He immediately adds:

However, all too often, the children who really need help from the Government are being left to rot in horrendous conditions. And all too often the Government over react in an inhumane and immoral manner and persecute innocent families who should be left to live in peace.

Milly O (not verified)

Mon, 2011-02-07 18:30

We are suffering from reverse-racism! The scheme to allow foreign investors to buy into the property development and build within two years is not in the interests of Australians, the voters who elect our governments. It's proof that they don't care one bit for the people of Australia. We are living in a faux democracy. Like the supposed "skills shortages" and the "ageing population", it is another insidious scam to drive up immigration and us hurtle towards a "big Australia". It ignores peak oil, environmental degradation and land clearing, climate change and more extreme weather, peak oil, pending food shortages, bulldozing of our food bowls, the blowout costs for potable water, and fails Australians trying to afford a roof over our heads. The outer suburbs were the last place families could almost afford to buy into the property market, and now well-heeled Chinese and other foreigners - denied home ownership in their own countries - will be able to lock young Australia into the same predicament. We are often accused of being racists in Australia, but we are actually being discriminated ourselves, due to being politically manipulated and silenced. Globalising our housing will mean more Aussie battlers, and more hardship, poverty and land-less-ness. We are not a sovereign nation any more but a province of China! Wake up Australia and do something about it before we all compete with the global community and simply be the trash of Asia-Pacific region.

Bandicoot

Mon, 2011-02-07 12:21

Major builders and developers on Melbourne's urban fringe are selling up to half of some new housing estates to overseas investors and those hoping to migrate to Australia. Developers court overseas buyers amid fears of greater urban sprawl Simonds Homes general manager of sales and marketing said foreign buyers were helping to create jobs in Victoria and boost new housing supply at a time when building activity had plummeted. The solution? Sell to foreigners and lure more immigrants here! For the sake of keeping developers' donations flowing to their election funds, politicians are selling our country to foreign landlords. So, you can now "buy" a visa; that's just how it is. Owning a property gives more points to PR. What about the problems we'll face in the future? The Australian govt appears to not give a damn about the citizens. A report recently showed that Australia has one of the most unaffordable housing markets in the world. Why is this? It's because we have high levels of immigration. House prices are out of control in this country and it's only a matter of time before they come crashing down or Australia becomes another province of China! Australia is not a sovereign country. It is merely an economy that must be fed no matter what the consequences. We are being sold out to the highest bidder. We are facing increasing homelessness and impossible demands for public housing. We've got so many citizens and residents who've already committed to this country and want to buy homes, they don't need any more competition from those who want may or may not at some stage in the future think about the possibility of moving to Australia. Immigration is good for politicians. Immigrants come from countries that have never had it as good as we did, so they don't realise how bad our politicians are. If you are not an Australian citizen you should not be able to buy any property or business. Just like what happens in other countries. Australia is a paradise but that is fast turning in a cesspit. How does selling houses for foreigners help us? Production and ideas are the power-house of a healthy economy, not urban sprawl! Once peak oil, food and water scarcity and climate change all hit us, Victorian will suffer.

nimby

Mon, 2011-02-07 11:38

Letter from DSE 12 Jan, 2011 The ATCW issued for the NMIT Eden Park campus considers the need to provide for a sustainable kangaroo population in the area, minimise the detrimental impacts on biodiversity values due to overgrazing and reduce impacts on NMIT's enterprises at the site. Surely if the NMIT have livestock and are advertising a "green" agenda, then how are kangaroos "detrimental" to the biodiversity? The "overgrazing" is a blatant lie. The grass was almost knee-high, when seen in December, and the grazing pressure of kangaroos is only a fraction of that of even a sheep! On the contrary, kangaroos help the management of native grasses and limit fire potential. Your concerns and comments are noted. Since your correspondence, the ATCW permit issued to NMIT has been re-examined. In doing so, there remains no other viable option for reducing the current population without simply displacing the problem to adjoining land owners, who have also expressed concern over the kangaroo numbers. No other viable option remains? Landowners want to benefits of living in a wildlife rural area in our urban reaches, yet don't want the "biodiversity values" that go with it. The feral rabbit plague is simply being ignored. What about fertility control, fences, public education on kangaroos and other wildlife, feral animal control? NMIT and DSE are using high calibre rifles to "manage" wildlife as the easy and cheap option.

Bandicoot

Sun, 2011-02-06 13:31

Prime Minister David Cameron has condemned Britain's long-standing policy of multiculturalism as a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism. Multicultural policies need replacing, says Cameron He showed marked change in policy towards Britain's ethnic and religious minorities, saying the "hands-off tolerance" of those who reject Western values had failed. He urged a "more active, muscular liberalism" where equal rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech and democracy were actively promoted to create a stronger national identity. While a healthy cultural diversity is stimulating and brings a sense of global identity, once minority groups comprise a large proportion of the mainstream population, fragmentation of society causes dis-unity. "Diversity" does not make a good social "glue". Starting from December, floodgates will open to muslims from Albania and Bosnia, undoubtedly flocking to the benefits-rich UK. EU to Open the Muslim Floodgates in December In another article Europe is dying , go to any children’s store in Amsterdam or Milan or Marseilles or Stockholm. Look at the Muslim women in headscarves. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life report, the total number of people who identify themselves as Muslims is currently about 1.6 billion. That figure is expected to rise to 2.2 billion by the year 2030. Some of the biggest increases in Europe’s Muslim population in absolute numbers over the next 20 years are expected to occur in the United Kingdom, France, Italy and Germany. The Muslim populations in Italy and Sweden are projected to “more than double in size”. European countries, including the UK , no longer have sovereignty. The politicians and leaders of Europe take their marching orders from the EU. Whenever the government makes rules for immigration/integration they are often overruled by the EU.

Mary (not verified)

Sat, 2011-02-05 17:45

Since the Millenium Development Goals were drawn up in 2000, the world's population has expanded from six to 7 billion, 95 percent of whom were born in poorer countries. By 2050, the total is likely to be more than nine billion, according to UN estimates.

At current growth rates, Kenya is projected to be one of Africa’s most populous countries, surpassing 50 million by 2025. Kenya’s Division of Reproductive Health (DRH) and partners recently launched mass media campaign. “Plan for Yourself a Good Life” focused on changing beliefs and behaviors among peri-urban and rural young men and women ages 25-35, and promoting child spacing and informed choice of modern contraceptives. The U.S. development agency, USAID, has awarded the funds to an international non-profit organization affiliated with Johns Hopkins University.

The overriding factors for rejection and fear are widespread myths and misconceptions about family planning for women and men. A majority of the males indicated that family planning made a woman cold in bed, while many others elicited fears that vasectomy would render them unable to have sex. They held that this would harm their standing in society, as well as cause their spouses to look for other partners.

Health care givers cite the need to dispel such rumours in order to increase uptake of family planning methods.

Kenya needs a Sh5.6 billion investment to meet the shortage of family planning services, ironically partly blamed for the high population growth. When the Millennium Development Goals were adopted, there was not a single target on population or family planning access.

By 2050, the total is likely to be more than nine billion, according to UN estimates.
Periodic progress reports show that many countries are not making progress towards the goals. Continued population growth is a major challenge. The Roman Catholic Church, politically powerful throughout the continent, continues its opposition to birth control and family planning.

Emphasis added. - Editor

James Sinnamon

Fri, 2011-02-04 07:26

To the contrary, I don't see why it should have been predictable at all. That any group is able to profit, and not lose, from making fellow members of its society society on average poorer, as increasing the population surely must in any country with finite resources, is a sign that the economy must be highly dysfunctional. Any economy which allows people, such as land speculators, who produce absolutely nothing of any use to any other member of society, to profit so greatly, cannot be healthy. The natural disasters that Australia has just endured has made a bad situation even worse. Those who, in the past lined the pockets of speculators and developers with their own wealth (if not the wealth they obtained from others) have lost doubly from the damage to their houses and other personal possessions that they put onto flood-prone land which they paid inflated prices for. It is past time that the laws were changed so that only those who contribute substantially to society are able to prosper. Those, who today profit from harming the welfare of others, should consider themselves lucky it the rest of society shows itself willing to support them with the equivalent of today's Centrelink unemployment benefits. If that were done, the pressure on our political leaders to impose population increases on the rest of us would no longer exist.

quark

Thu, 2011-02-03 23:55

When it is so obvious that people have settled in places that are flood prone, which usually means there is a shortage of more suitable places to settle which means overpopulation and then you hear these opportunists howling for more migrants, it is extremely predictable and annoying.

M Ginseng (not verified)

Thu, 2011-02-03 17:07

Our so-called "aging population" is a result of big families in the post-war era, and post war immigration. For every boost to population, there is inevitably a corresponding demographic result further down the track. Adding people now, through immigration, will cause the hump to continue, and thus we end up in an addiction cycle. Lack of skills, high number of aging, need economic stimulus, housing slump? Add more people! We get an addiction cycle and our fates become sealed by culture, economics and what habitually worked in the past. Probably the tipping point of famine, peak oil, overpopulation, climate change has already passed. Humanity's momentum will continue to drive the cycle to completion, and a new Age in our planet that will not include humans - or only a few.

nimby

Thu, 2011-02-03 09:06

Ban Ki-moon: World's economic model is 'environmental suicide' The world's current economic model is an environmental "global suicide pact" that will result in disaster if it isn't reformed, Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, warned recently. He doesn't mention "capitalism" but criticizes growth. "We need a revolution," he told a panel at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, on how best to make the global economy sustainable. "Climate change is also showing us that the old model is more than obsolete." Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general made global warming his personal mission, is ending his hands-on involvement with international climate change negotiations. Obviously, capitalistic nations like Australia are incapable of facing climate change. We are one of the greatest per capita emitters, but at the same time are intent on maximizing our population. He called the current economic model a recipe for "national disaster" and said: "We are running out of time. Time to tackle climate change, time to ensure sustainable … growth." Surely "growth" and "sustainable" are inherently contradictory? Bill Gates, said that "you cannot have a just world by telling people to use less energy than the average European". One way to cap the world's consumption and carbon emissions would be to invest in family planning said Gates, who has invested much of his fortune in health projects in the developing world. Ban said that political and business leaders need to embrace economic innovation in order to save the planet.

James Sinnamon

Wed, 2011-02-02 23:35

Thanks, Enne K, Tim and other contributors. The philosophy referred to as cornucopianism should be condemned totally. Beware, however, of accidentally giving cornucopians undeserved credibility whilst seeking to demonstrate their foolishness. They should be shown up as criminals, not fools. Cornucopianism is self-evidently even more intellectually and scientifically bankrupt than, for example, the literal upholding of the book of Genesis or the belief that the earth is flat. No scientifically literate and numerate person could believe that the planet could be better off, instead of worse off, if human population were to grow beyond the current 7 billion, when, for most of human history until barely more than 300 years ago, the number of humans inhabiting the planet was less than 500 million. To maintain that the earth today needs yet more people is barely less idiotic than to argue that in 1942 the 2,600,000 inhabitants of the city of Leningrad needed, above all else, more inhabitants to fight the besieging Germans. By the end of the 900 day Siege of Leningrad, an estimated 642,000 civilians had died, mostly through starvation. This was on top of the Red Army's staggering 1,017,881 starved, killed, captured or missing around Leningrad. If the Soviet authorities only had to use their common sense to know that adding more people to the population of Leningrad during those years would increase the humanitarian catastrophe, why are so many of today's world political and economic leaders determined to further increase planet Earth's already vast human population? If these 'modern' plans to keep on stimulating human numbers are not stopped, then all the horrific tragedies of the Twentieth Century, including the Siege of Leningrad, which, together, cost an order of 100 million human lives, will seem like school yard scuffles in comparison to the terrible fate that will inexorably overtake many billions of humans. Any educated and numerate person who seriously advocates further increasing human population is in my view, criminal. In practice, the outcome of what they are doing, if they are not stopped, will make the worst criminals of the 20th Century -- Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mussolini, Franco, the Rwandan Genocidalists, etc. -- seem humanitarian, decent and civilised by comparison. Enough digital ink has been spent trying to show up the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of cornucopianism. It is time that we treated this as self-evident and instead focused more on naming the cornucopians and using their own words to show them up for the cynical criminals that they surely must be.

Anonymous (not verified)

Tue, 2011-02-01 19:07

Having female "bobby calves" would not stop the excess number of baby calves unwanted by the dairy industry. Not all of them could be accommodated into dairy herds. The cruelty of the dairy industry has been kept secret for too long, and the health risks of humans being unweaned even as adults. Dairy cows are forced to produce ten times the amount of milk they would naturally, due to genetic selection and high protein feed. People don't feel uneasy about eating veal, and the demand would still continue. Milk and dairy products are bad for humans too. They are linked to obesity, pimples, wind, diabetes and cancers including prostate, breast and ovarian cancers. The only natural milk for humans is human breast milk - something that is often substituted for cows milk.

Anonymous (not verified)

Tue, 2011-02-01 16:46

Dating back to 1868, US citizenship was provided to almost all babies born in the United States. (The children of foreign diplomats are excluded). In the terminology of proponents of tighter immigration rules, children born to illegal immigrants are "anchor babies," meant to ensure legal status for their parents and prevent their deportation. The phrase adds a toxic element to the immigration debate but it is misleading. Until such children reach the age of 21, they cannot sponsor their parents for legal immigration status. That has not stopped an anti-anchor baby movement from gathering momentum. Among developed western nations, as defined by the World Bank, only Canada and the United States still grant automatic citizenship at birth to anyone born on their soil. Earlier this month at Washington, D.C.'s National Press Club the State Legislators for Legal Immigration, a coalition of legislators from 40 states, unveiled its strategy to end the policy of giving automatic citizenship to all children born in the United States regardless of their parents' immigration status. According to Sen. David Vitter, R-La., and Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ken- "For too long, our nation has seen an influx of illegal aliens entering our country at an escalating rate, and chain migration is a major contributor to this rapid increase – which is only compounded when the children of illegal aliens born in the U.S. are granted automatic citizenship". The result of that is that anchor babies immediately acquire the right to full benefits, everything from welfare to cheese, which increases the costs to the states. The basis for birthright citizenship is the 14th Amendment to the federal Constitution, which says “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” Time to change the 14th Amendment!

tim

Tue, 2011-02-01 14:40

Anonymous, Now, now. We can't talk about patriotism now. That is something that the smart set and the rootless cosmopilitans of the New Class regard as quaint at best and 'xenophobic, racist and nativist' at worst. In fact, two generations have now be taught to believe that like Socrates, they are not 'Athenians' but 'citizens of the world'. So to demonstrate that kind of global citizenship, we need to keep our doors wide open so that the world can help itself to our candy store. To turn them away would send out the wrong signals. We need their cooperation to fight global warming. And haven't the Green-Left told you? The 'workers' have no country. They belong to the working class of the world with whom they are enjoined to unite with. Loving the land that you were born in, gee, isn't that what the Nazis promoted? And as we all know, anything that the Nazis did or believed automatically makes it wrong. Reductio ad Hitlerum. Tim

tim

Tue, 2011-02-01 14:27

Bandicoot. Interesting. I have long referred to the environmental establishment as "The Green Pharisees" and their fixation of 'green living habits' as "straining out the ghnat but swallowing the camel" of runaway population growth. Moreover, the most damning characteristic of these Pharisees, both in Christ's time and ours, is their hypocrisy. Glad someone else sees it in precisely those terms. Tim M.

Bandicoot

Tue, 2011-02-01 11:08

Many people find it difficult to understand why the dairy industry is cruel. After all, cows produce milk naturally and milking seems a relatively benign procedure.

Cows lactate for the same reason as all mammals, including humans – to feed their babies. To produce milk in profitable quantities a dairy cow must be made pregnant every twelve months. Cows and their calves form strong bonds and the separation causes intense distress to both.

Despite industry propaganda, cows’ milk is no more necessary to human health than is elephants’ milk or dogs’ milk. Did you know that humans are the only animals who drink the milk of another species, and the only animals who drink milk after weaning?

A high Calcium diet including a high intake of dairy products has been encouraged in conventional Osteoporosis programmes. However, some question this approach based upon concerns for the acid alkali imbalance hypothesised to occur with a high dairy diet. The argument is that the acidity in dairy and grain foods needs to be buffered in the body and the mechanism for this is the release of calcium carbonate from bones. Hence it is suggested that high dairy diets actually lead to a secretion of more calcium from the bones. There is a wide health industry in dealing with Osteoporosis, and a loss would not be in their interests.

For decades we have been bombarded by the milk co-operatives, large corporate milk farming enterprises, and milk producer associations to the effect that you must drink milk if you want to be strong and healthy…that cow’s milk is high in bone strengthening calcium and all those other good things.

Now they have multi-millions of people believing this lie.

Well, the truth is, the only milk that is really healthy, and does all those good things the milk producers claim and more, is breast milk. When an infant is weaned, it is time to get off breast milk, and to never have cow’s milk----period!

Professor Loren Cordain, PhD, Department of Health and Exercise Science, Colorado State University, says the latest bad news for cow’s milk is that it causes spiked insulin levels as well as increased prostate cancer risk. Drinking that glass of milk sent their insulin levels soaring. That’s bad stuff, especially if you are a diabetic, overweight or obese.

There are vegan cheeses too. Check out this page on the Vegetarian Network Victoria web-site (http://vnv.org.au).

Many people who try soy milk for the first time do not like the brand they try and from then on label all soy milk as disgusting and avoid it altogether. Rice milk is another readily available dairy milk alternative that is well worth a try. There are also other milk alternatives available including Oat Milk, Almond Milk, Hazelnut Milk, Walnut Milk, Quinoa Milk and even Grain Milks (made from combinations of wheat, soybeans, oats, rice, triticale, and barley). Again, these milks all have quite different flavours so try several types and brands to find one you like.

quark

Tue, 2011-02-01 10:12

Sex sorting of sperm should be used to ensure maximum number of female calves are born so that the veal industry can be eliminated.

Anonymous (not verified)

Tue, 2011-02-01 09:46

Subject was: For A United Front Thanks, anonymous contributor for pasting the Australia First Party Provisional Management Committee statement of 10th January 2011. As the Australia First Party does not seem to have a workable web-site at the moment, we have published the statement here, together with comments. Normally, it would be preferred if such lengthy documents could be put on the site of the Australia First Party with links from this site. Further comments are welcome.

AimeK (not verified)

Mon, 2011-01-31 15:54

Subject was: Milk susbtitute.

If one likes the taste of "sewing machine oil" then perhaps one might also substitute soy milk for the real stuff, but there are other fact to consider. There have been several reports of adverse reactions to soy and soy products, yet it's found in more and more produce, particularly bread and snack foods. Drinking soy milk has been reported as preventing vital nutrients from entering the gut (malnutrition via malabsorbtion). Many people are allergic to soy and struggle to find products that are free of it. These products are usually more expensive too, even a loaf of bread!!

Many people will argue that soy has been used by the Asian community for thousands of years and with no ill effect, but the soy they used was a fermented product. The soy in damned near everything you eat today is not of the fermented kind.

Anybody interested in the benefits or not of soy should do a bit of research before using it in quantity. This link to soy and thyroid problems should be enough to make you stop and think. The first few comments are well worth a read..........

thyroid.about.com/u/ua/soy/soy-thyroid-stories.htm

Bandicoot

Mon, 2011-01-31 10:36

As Jesus condemned the Pharisees of His day - the religious leaders - for their hypocrisy and their enjoyment of the deference of the public. Many "green" groups can be similarly accused. Pharisees would "strain out the gnats and swallow the camels". Matthew 23:24 In other words, they dissected the minute details of the laws of Moses, and caused hardships for the people by imposing impossible demands on everyday life, but at the same time ignored the "camels" - the woeful boulders of their wrong-doings such as ignoring their adherence to justice and mercy and faith. In other words, they make a big to-do out of the little things and let the big things escape. The climate change and environmental groups are easily as guilty. While they market the need for recycling, of reducing personal greenhouse gas emissions, of planting trees, riding bicycles, taking public transport, compost bins, florescent light globes - all good things in themselves - if they are going to mitigate anthropogenic climate change, we need to stop ignoring the elephant (or camel) in the room! Global population blow-out! ABC Online said on November 12 last year the Japanese government had announced that Japan’s greenhouse gas emissions hit a record high in the year ending March 2008. This is despite their declining population. Cuba’s example makes this same point, but for the inverse reason. From 1990 to 2004, the Cuban population grew by about 1 million or 8.5%. For the same period, total carbon dioxide emissions fell from 32 million tones to 25.8 million tones; a 19.4%. These tenuous examples mean the negative correlation between population growth and greenhouse gas emissions? It ignores another serious related environmental problem, which is that resources are being used up at an unsustainable rate. More than 70% of the world's population growth between 2010 and 2050 will occur in 24 of the world's poorest countries. This will mean more asylum seeders and economic immigration, and increased food aid demands. Australia, as one of the world's worse for consumption level and greenhouse gas emissions, also has the highest population growth rate in the developed world. The brilliant earth systems scientist James Lovelock claimed that “those who fail to see that population growth and climate change are two sides of the same coin are either ignorant or hiding from the truth. These two huge environmental problems are inseparable and to discuss one while ignoring the other is irrational.”

Sheila Newman

Mon, 2011-01-31 10:10

Another problem is that there is money to be made out of scarcity - primarily by the rich, who own most of the assets. Due to their lack of conscience and empathy rich people take what they must realise belongs to the community. They keep it and charge rent. As populations are forced to increase, vital resources and economic resources get scarcer, these bad rich people get richer. When everyone else is miserable, they profit. When the environment suffers, it is because they profit. It is like an addiction. The misery of the rest of the world is compensated for them by their wealth, Many of them also gamble heavily, which is a sign that all was not well in the first place. Sheila Newman, population sociologist home page

nimby (not verified)

Mon, 2011-01-31 09:43

http://www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2011/update90 Earth Policy Institute reports massive price increases for food commodities. On the demand side, the culprits are population growth, rising affluence, and the use of grain to fuel cars. Tonight, there will be 219,000 additional mouths to feed at the dinner table, and many of them will be greeted with empty plates. Beyond population growth, there are now some 3 billion people moving up the food chain, eating greater quantities of grain-intensive livestock and poultry products. The taste and status of eating more livestock produce, for the better off, will exacerbate the crisis. In 2009, 119 million tons of grain went to ethanol distilleries to produce fuel for cars. That's enough to feed 350 million people for a year. Plant-based diesel oil, principally from rapeseed and palm oil. demand will increase and cause more species extinctions. An estimated one third of the world's cropland is losing topsoil faster than new soil is forming through natural processes—and thus is losing its inherent productivity. Two huge dust bowls are forming, one across northwest China, western Mongolia, and central Asia; the other in central Africa. Each of these dwarfs the U.S. dust bowl of the 1930s. More countries will depend on food aid. Today, half the world's people live in countries where water tables are falling as overpumping depletes aquifers. Suburban sprawl, industrial construction, and the paving of land for roads, highways, and parking lots are claiming cropland in the Central Valley of California, the Nile River basin in Egypt, and in densely populated countries that are rapidly industrializing, such as China and India. Our own fruit and vegetable prices are set to rise by 70% due to the floods. Food bowls are being eradicated due to urban sprawl, and back yard veggie patches are becoming impossible. For each 1 degree Celsius rise in temperature above the optimum during the growing season, we can expect a 10 percent decline in grain yields. Food shortages will threaten global security. Unless governments quickly redefine security and shift expenditures from military uses to investing in climate change mitigation, water efficiency, soil conservation, and population stabilization, the world will in all likelihood be facing a future with both more climate instability and food price volatility.

tim

Mon, 2011-01-31 09:07

Enne K, you nailed it. Cornucopianism has never been better defined and exposed. And you are right----"cornucopians will always get the better publicity, better funding and better results---in the short term." And I would add, cornucopians will always get an audience. Let's face it, we're hooked on hope. In the face of disaster, we are eager to grasp at any straw. When diagnosed with a terminal illness, we are desperate to seizure on a miracle cure. We just don't want to acknowledge limits. We just don't want to deal with reality. We don't like being told the bad news.

quark

Sun, 2011-01-30 20:58

The following letter of mine was shortlisted I am told for publication in The Sunday Age (Melbourne broadsheet) today but did not appear It echoes one of the comments here re animals being corralled into smaller spaces and seeming to be in "plague proportions". You can imagine the article from my comments. "Possums pose a pain in the park for dog owners" Sunday Age 23/1 contains contradictions which are unavoidable when an attempt is made to explain an imbalance without mentioning the overwhelming imbalance - ever increasing human numbers with accompanying dogs and cats. The article describes a clash of land use in urban Melbourne between native animals and dogs with their owners. It tells of massive numbers of native animals and birds attacked, by "domestic animals". In the next paragraph it is asserted that possum numbers are increasing due to a lack of "natural predators"! We only see what we want to see! The article says possums should not come down from trees but all around the inner urban areas, councils put metal bands all over trees to stop possums from gaining access! Furthermore it is normal possum behaviour to spend some time on the ground during waking hours to find food. The claimed increase (always an implied negative for any animal except the human) in possum numbers is most likely illusory as their habitat in private gardens is progressively annihilated for development and they are forced into smaller areas such as Edinburgh Gardens.

Scott

Sun, 2011-01-30 16:41

It would appear another corella invasion is underway in Australia. This time around it is the unfortunate residents of South Perth that are inundating the local council with complaints about the bird’s behaviour. This follows similar protests in Bunbury where locals are petitioning for authorities to get rid of the birds. The influx appears to climax during the fruiting season of London plane trees that have been planted by the very same councils that are receiving the corella complaints. At this stage, the collective minds of the local councillors have yet to recognise the relationship between the presence of the corellas and that of the exotic (Spanish) tree. Instead both governments are demonising the corellas by claiming that they are the exotic species and should be controlled. According to The West Australian: “White corellas are an Eastern States native, Introduced in WA after pets were released into the wild” If one walks around South Perth or any area for that matter, in Perth that is near water and contains London plane trees you will immediately notice that the most abundant corellas are little corellas – a native to Western Australia. That is of course assuming you know anything about birds which unfortunately does not seems to be the case for those writing at The West Australian. Once again, under the caption of “Feathered invasion” our only state daily newspaper continues to feed the myth that any white cockatoo is unwelcome in our state. Perhaps this ignorance is borne from the rhetoric of Busselton Shire Councillor and former MP Bernie Masters. When questioning former Environment and Heritage Minister Judy Edwards back in 2001 he stated: ”The control of the rainbow lorikeet, the sulphur-crested cockatoo, the little corella, the western long-billed corella and the eastern corella, all of which are feral birds, is possible” The western long-bill corella a feral bird in Western Australia? The little corella a feral bird in Western Australia? Suffice to say our then environment minister was not even aware that western long-billed corellas were actually an endangered species in our southwest nor that little corellas have always been found across vast areas of WA. No, as usual the best way to demonise a species is to claim that it is an eastern states invader. Or, if you live in the eastern states the animal is an alien from out west. In further developments another corella cull will take place soon in the Perth suburb of Maylands. The site for the cull is located nearby the Perth Police Academy and the West Australian DEC thought it might be fun to get some police sharp shooters involved. I’m not too sure if the WA police are qualified to tell the difference between a little corella and a western corella but I’m sure Bernie Masters won’t be losing any sleep over it.

Bandicoot

Sun, 2011-01-30 09:15

The world is closer to a major famine today than it has been in decades. In the current era, there have been smaller cases of famine in the world such as Niger in ‘05 and again in 2010. The rains occurring in normally dry Australia and droughts in locations like China were, in the past, linked to a La Nina phase. In a rare phenomenon that comes once in decades, bamboo groves have blossomed en masse in Wayanad Wildlife Sanctuary - India - making for a spectacular view. Bamboo blossoming on a large scale has caused social unrest as they leave behind millions of seeds, which attract rodents. Forest officials that it may cause a famine in the Nilgiri Biosphere Reserve, the largest congregation of Asiatic elephants. This would mean a loss of fodder for elephants and wild gaurs. A "humanitarian crisis of epic proportions" is unfolding in flood-hit areas of southern Pakistan where malnutrition rates rival those of African countries affected by famine, according to the United Nations. A survey reflects the continuing impact of the massive August floods, which affected 20 million people across an area the size of England, sweeping away 2.2m hectares of farmland. The Kenyan government is putting in place long term measures in place to ensure that a future recurrence of drought will not have a severe impact on the country. President Mwai Kibaki has instructed line ministries to institute practical measures to immediately alleviate the suffering of the people in drought stricken areas. An estimated 5 million Kenyans are currently affected by the drought. Oxfam, an international aid agency has notified on Monday that Somalia is suffering from its most horrible drought in years. And due to no-rain, it has already overwhelmed more than millions of lives in the country. In a declaration issued at Nairobi, the aid organization has stated that, the calamity must be the last wake-up call for the global community. In the declaration it has urged to seek their attention toward the people who are suffering from hunger. The report, from Foresight, a think-tank set up to predict future crises, called for ‘urgent action’ to prevent food shortages, and said genetically modified crops may be needed to prevent famines. The cost of food will soar by 50 per cent over the next few decades as the world becomes racked by famine, mass migrations and riots. The increase will be triggered by the exploding world population, rising cost of fuel and increased competition for water. Foresight predicted that the world’s population would rise from 6.9billion today to around 9billion by the middle of the century. At the same time, climate change will increase the risk of droughts, floods and crop failures – creating a ‘perfect storm’ of food shortages and above-inflation rises in prices. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1350009/Food-prices-rocke... The planet has been increasing its population exponentially, while the area under cultivation has been stable to dropping over the longer term as productive increases allowed a greater concentration of food production by a smaller and smaller number of workers. International organizations, including the United Nations, the World Bank and the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), report that food prices globally have risen scarily close to or above the record levels of 2008. Prices of wheat, sugar, corn, soybeans, rice and barley, have all risen. By 2050, 86 percent of the 9.1 billion people on Earth will live in today's developing countries. People in these countries are on average much younger than those in the developed world, and younger people tend to have better appetites, again increasing the demand for food. Khan Horne, NAB Agribusiness General Manager, said food price inflation is expected as Queensland accounts for up to one-third of Australia’s horticultural production. As George Monbiot wrote in his recent book Heat, nobody ever rioted for austerity. Both sides of politics welcome and encourage population growth that will completely overwhelm the most optimistic projections of greenhouse gas reductions currently being debated. According to Queensland Labor MP Andrew McNamara, In this 21st Century, where managing depletion will be the critical issue, a political framework built on belief in endless growth is wholly redundant, if not dangerously delusional. Yet we remain shackled to a political system still made up of parties designed to fight the class wars of a century and more ago. So, population growth in modern economies, where productivity rather than simple production volumes is the key to wealth creation, is actually a drag on economic growth. And efficiency gains in the absence of resource use caps actually hasten resource depletion. Where does that leave us? It leaves us having to confront the reality that in the closed system that is planet Earth, we cannot go on endlessly increasing the number of people on the planet without facing serious environmental consequences. There are too many of us.

nimby (not verified)

Sat, 2011-01-29 12:04

There's no need to give up anything when switching to dairy-free eating. Whether it's cheese, mayonnaise, yoghurt, sour cream or cream you're after, it's all here in delicious dairyless form. * Soy milk is a popular substitute for dairy milk. Some people may need to become used to the strong flavour if used for baking. * Almond milk is rich in protein, and its nutty flavour can enhance the flavour in baking. * Rice milk, best reserved for drinking and cereals, has a more watery consistency than other dairy-free milk. * Some soy cheeses may contain lactose or milk protein, so if you are catering for lactose-intolerant dietary requirements it is important to double check cheese ingredients. * Coconut cream can be whipped and added to desserts as a substitute for cream. Note, this is high in saturated fat, so is best reserved for a treat. Soy milk, rice milk, oat milk ... there are so many good alternatives to cows' milk that it can be difficult to choose. We suggest you try a few and see which one you like best. All are cholesterol free and low in saturated fat. Full fat soy beverages which have calcium added are suitable for use after 1 year of age as part of a mixed diet. Other soy drinks that do not have calcium added are not best for toddlers.

Milly O (not verified)

Fri, 2011-01-28 13:50

The UK's population is forecast by the Office of National Statistics (ONS) to increase from 61.4 million to 70.6 million by 2030. Forum for the Future report says that the UK should aim to reduce that growth and its impact through more targeted family planning and an end to GDP-led growth. The report also supports proposals to raise the retirement age to 66 in 2016 to shift attitudes away from seeing older people as a burden, as well as allowing people to 'rethink how to spread work, take time out for rearing children or caring for family or for learning throughout our lives'. The UK will need new houses, schools, hospitals and other infrastructure to support millions more people. Demand for food, water and other resources will increase and there will be increased waste and pollution. As the population ages the proportion of people in work and paying taxes will shrink, threatening funding for pensions and public services. Once we end up having to compensate for the costs of the "ageing population" by having to have young immigrants, we end up further blowing out our numbers, and we end up on the treadmill cycle of consumption and decline. www.forumforthefuture.org/projects/growing-pains There's no (larger) Earth version 2 about to be released that's going to save us, We need to clean up the planet or kill 70% of the population. or damage the earth. Market forces will keep requiring "economic growth", and this growth could end up consuming us, and the planet. Humans won't be able to exist in the comfort we have so far experienced. It's up to us to choose - allow the "big end" of town to manipulate our lives for the advanced of the Economy, or a sustainable economy and a sustainable future for the benefit of the majority.

Anonymous (not verified)

Wed, 2011-01-26 20:44

Subject was: "Aah it's good to see Ortega"

Aah it's good to see [Vivienne] Ortega here sprouting garbage as usual.

This person has no clue as to what is actually involved

nowadays in getting a roo from paddock to plate & being a vegan will probably never bother to look into it, instead, just like Pat Obrien, Menkit Prince & a whole heap of others who don't have a clue, she'll just keep rabbiting on with how bad it is to kill cute little animals.

E.coli & Salmonella never get found in other food products, or toxoplasmosis either eh?

Henry probably knows as much about the roo industry as Garnaut knows about climate, sweet FA.

Editorial comment: Most of the above post consists of the commentator's uncharitable views of some of candobetter's best and most prolific contirbutors. One statement which just may possibly warrant a response is: "E.coli & Salmonella never get found in other food products, or toxoplasmosis either eh?"

Scott

Tue, 2011-01-25 15:39

The Mountain Cattlemen Association of Victoria (MCAV) are clearly delighted with this decision and why shouldn’t they be? The coalition government has ignored every piece of scientific evidence and scorned the growing pile of commissioned reports that deal with the menace of alpine grazing. According to the MCAV: “The bush and our parks are for everyone to enjoy, not to be locked up for a few” Not to be locked up for a few? What are they on about? Is that a few tourists, or a few “greenies” or maybe a few tree-hugging scientists. I thought the whole point of excluding cattle from the area was to allow the natural flora and fauna to regenerate thus allowing many to enjoy the area as tourists. Of course now the decision has been made to allow cattle back in the area there are indeed a very privileged few who are busy building fences. How few? Well six mountain cattlemen families are the beneficiaries of this act of environmental vandalism….. Six families who will continue the process of degrading the soil under the mantra that “Grazing reduces Blazing”. It is curious that the MCAV think-tank established to find a word that rhymes with “grazing” has enjoyed a longer legacy than the myriad of scientific reports that condemn the commercial activities of these cattlemen. When is a National Park no longer a National Park?

Bandicoot

Tue, 2011-01-25 11:03

The dairy industry has a clean, wholesome image of happy cows and peaceful green pastures. However, the reality is one of grief and pain for cows and their stolen young. The Australian dairy industry is pushing for a nationwide standard that will make it legal to deny bobby calves liquid food for the last 30 hours of their lives before being slaughtered — despite the fact that mother cows will normally suckle their young five times a day. The 30 hour time without feed is not best practice animal welfare, and is not in the interests of such a young, vulnerable animal. The reason that industry wants this increase is purely financial. It will allow them the time to commit the following negative welfare practices: o Allow time for transporters to pick up bobby calves from several different properties, rather than picking up bobbies from a central point and transporting them direct to slaughter. o Allow time for bobby calves to be left at saleyards for extended periods, before being picked up and taken to slaughter (in a weakened state) o Allow more time for bobby calves to wait at abattoirs before they are slaughtered. (Note, E.U. regulation states that unweaned animals arriving at slaughterhouses must be slaughtered immediately, or at least within 2 hours of arrival) Dairy cows can't produce milk unless they produce a baby. Annually, newborn calves(called 'bobby calves') are separated from their grieving mums a few days after birth so that their milk can be used for human consumption. Cows are known to be especially maternal animals and can bellow for days for their lost infants. About 3/4 of a million unwanted calves, by-products of the dairy industry, are loaded onto trucks bound for slaughter every year. Denying them milk, an essential nutrient, will mean more suffering and deaths on-route. This is not the way to treat vulnerable young animals. The 30 hour period without food will increase the number of bobbies unable to stand or follow or struggling to walk (already visible in saleyards and transports) and these calves will be exposed to cruel practices commonly employed by frustrated handlers and drivers. The dairy industry's dirty secret - the fate of all these baby animals - must be addressed. There are many healthy and tasty non-dairy products on the market today, and reducing dairy consumption will help our environment and lessen the numbers of disposed-of bobby-calves. Demand that animals not be treated as "waste products". If the moral level of society can be judged by the way it treats its animals, the way it treats its baby animals must be even more damning. Animals Australia Take Action

nimby (not verified)

Mon, 2011-01-24 19:06

Australia's capital cities will more than double in size within 50 years under current immigration rates, dramatically affecting quality of life and cutting food production. Even with zero migration, the capitals will grow in size by roughly 50 per cent, costing residents an extra $1000 a year due to added congestion within the next two decades. We are being plied with another population myth, that our growth is inevitable. With zero immigration levels, our population would either become steady, or decline. Australia is declining, and the Lucky Country is being eroded by Immigration Nation. There are limits to any growth, and biology can support this. Growth beyond what is optimum, or useful and good, is malignant. If we question our immigration policies, we are then "racist". Political correctness is a great manipulator, and a clever political tool.

Matilda B (not verified)

Sun, 2011-01-23 11:31

Being cared for up to death, with basic dignity, should be a government responsibility. Depriving the elderly of their assets and family home is theft. Yes, there should be some choices, and extras should be paid for, but why such draconian means of extracting assets from the vulnerable? People who have paid taxes all their lives should be provided for, and families will depend more and more on inheriting the family home due to rising costs. This plan is about stealing from the dying, and exploiting families at a time of sorrow.

nimby (not verified)

Sun, 2011-01-23 09:30

Violence against non-human life forms is not only tolerated and approved by the federal government, but even encouraged. Through these mass killings of birds, cougars, ducks and other animals, the United States federal government is actively engaged in widespread acts of violence against nature, murdering literally millions of animals on an annual basis.

quark

Sat, 2011-01-22 20:25

Catani Gardens on the St. Kilda foreshore, Melbourne is home to a colony of brush tail possums whose "family history" in that location goes back nearly 100 years and they have delighted tourists and visitors for that long. Until 2006 they lived in the crowns of the 102 Canary Island Palms which are a feature of the gardens. Although the trees are not part of the original native vegetation of the area (some of which can be found a few kilometres further from the city in Black Rock or Beaumaris) they provided very safe shelter for these native animals.

Now every tree is girded with a steel band about a metre in breadth in order to exclude the animals. About half the possums it appears survived the trauma of losing habitat over a period of about 10 months as the bands were applied serially in lots of 10. Those remaining still find some refuge in the gardens. It is remarkable that any survived the onslaught by Port Phillip Council who in addition to locking the possums out of their homes, also called in a pest exterminator to wipe them out on the phony claim that the possums damaged the palms. Legal action was taken unsuccessfully by the Friends of Catani Gardens and Protectors of Public Lands Victoria Vic (the latter a coalition of 85 environment,heritage and animal welfare groups.) to save the possums - The action was supported by world wide animal welfare organisation People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) and by the Australian Wildlife Protection Council

By day, there is no sign whatsoever that any wild life apart from sea gulls ever set foot in the gardens .

By night during summer there is a constant stream of visitors to the gardens. Tourists including young back packers from countries as diverse as Malaysia, Israel, France, Sweden, Germany or Russia come to see the possums whose reputation has reached them via friends, family or the Internet or they come across them by accident and are surprised by the wide eyed presence of these nervous creatures. Invariably the tourists ask about the presence of the Gothic gallows appearance of the metal bands on the trees and they express sorrow and disappointment that the local council would not want to protect these animals.

It is a negative for Victoria and Australia and another sign that we are at war with our wildlife.

See also: Victorian Government shows no mercy for fauna and flora in Melbourne's heatwave of 30 Jan 2009.

Enne K (not verified)

Sat, 2011-01-22 18:55

Cornucopianism is the belief that physical resources are ultimately less important than the resources of the mind. The philosophy takes its name from the Cornucopia; a Greek horn of plenty. The philosophy of Cornucopianism arose in contrast to the gloom-and-doom principles of Rev. Thomas R. Malthus. We face a crisis, of energy supply, of raw material supply, of climate and ecosystem instability and destruction. The cornucopians are heading toward a technological lifestyle, with a focus on the development of machines, on re-engineering the human being in the same fashion. It's all about escaping the bounds of the biological and the natural limitations. The unfortunate thing is that the cornucopians will always get the better publicity, better funding and better results, in the short term. According to them, planning for sustainability should be viewed with suspicion, excessive and stifling precaution avoided, individual decisions left as free as possible, and market transactions and private property rights expanded to ensure rational outcomes. Population, termed by the cornucopian economist Julian Simon “the ultimate resource,” is part of the solution rather than the problem. When faced with specifics, the cornucopians generally try to fight their way back to the generalities. That seemingly serious people passionately believe both that Science will solve our problems and the scientists who tell us about those problems are completely wrong is baffling. Cornucopians see the problems, threats, and challenges of resource depletion and environmental degradation as largely self-correcting through the workings of markets and human creativity, if those operations are not unduly interfered with. Despite scientific and technological advances, we still suffer from floods, typhoons, tsunamis, bushfires, famines, changes to climate, species extinctions and soil losses. Cornucopian position is fundamentally flawed and those concerned about resource scarcity will someday be right—unfortunately, it's just a matter of time.

Anonymous (not verified)

Sat, 2011-01-22 17:20

The current nursing home accommodation scheme discriminates in favour of elderly who are fortunate enough to drop dead suddenly while still living in their hard-won homes. Children of parents who linger in nursing homes for several years already watch on as the fruits of their parents' labour (the family home) is gobbled up by greedy governments and nursing home administrations. Why should someone who has invested their blood and sweat into paying off a home, maintaining it and paying all manner of taxes on it, then have it taxed again, while the neighbour who didn't bother to sacrifice anything, never paid off a home and relied on taxpayer generosity, gets nursing home care for free? The inequity is staggering. It used to be comforting to know that the hard work and sacrifice that goes into paying off a home would go to the heirs of our choice. I would like to see the massive and powerful seniors of this country out in the streets, telling the government where to bloody-well go. I would kill myself rather than see the government confiscate the home that was always meant to ultimately benefit my children. Maybe I should have avoided the proposed insult by lounging around in government supported accommodation all along - spent my money, had a bloody good time. But no, it was my choice to put my disposable income into something that would long-term benefit my offspring. I don't know why there's no opt-in insurance scheme for those who don't want or deserve their family home to be plundered by government should ill health be their misfortune in old age. An opt-in insurance scheme could share the risk, instead of dumping so much of it onto the most vulnerable, hardest working people in our communities.

wendyk (not verified)

Sat, 2011-01-22 16:54

There is a fine line between optimism and delusion : humans screen out uncomfortable truths by default, I believe. The categories listed in Tim's article encapsulate this essential denial.

quark

Sat, 2011-01-22 11:44

Are these lies or indeed delusions or ratioalisations? They've all grown up in a the recent past. except the religious lie. These lies must be needed in some way by humanity in order to function. My guess is that most people cannot face the reality that it has all gone wrong, is hurtling out of control or that it really wasn't wise or humane to become a parent. If they even have a glimpse or a moment's comprehension of e.g what climate change means for the future they need to sweep it aside and out of every day considerations in order to continue, to survive to the end of the week.

nimby

Sat, 2011-01-22 09:47

While population growth to compensate for the burden of an "ageing population", is being promoted, at the same time 60,000 older Australians already pay accommodation bonds for their care, but tens of thousands more will join them in coming years under a proposed overhaul of the system. The elderly, in their most vulnerable moments in their twilight years, will be slugged with more fees. Hostels and nursing homes use the bonds as interest-free loans to invest in their buildings and services and can deduct up to $307 a month for up to five years but are obliged to return the balance to the residents or their estates when they leave or die. Such loans would require no repayments until the home was sold, effectively delaying repayments until after a person's death. The elderly in high-care beds are charged a maximum of $22.72 a day for their accommodation if their assets exceed $38,500. Among the recommendations was a government-backed equity release scheme where older people could draw against the value of their house. It's like a HECS scheme for the elderly. A second layer of fees, or co-contribution, would also apply for their care services for residents who failed a means test which, for the first time, would count the family home. Those who are elderly now would have benefited from Australia's "Lucky Country" past, when we were a wealthy and fortunate country. However, with population growth and the dream of higher education and home ownership slipping away as a baby-boomers' memory, the next generations won't be able to afford homes, disposable assets or nursing home fees. With unaffordable housing and many young people and families being denied home ownership in the future, the family home may be more and more relied upon as the only way of home ownership. The elderly, mostly who have paid taxes all their lives and contributed to society, should not have their assets attacked so they can spend their last years or months in decent care. This plundering of estates at a time when families are under stress and are emotionally vulnerable is unethical and like a vulture waiting for a victim's weakest moment to attack. With a blow-out of 36 million people or more by 2050, and thus more elderly people to cater for, just how will our budget cover their needs without depriving families from their assets? It could mean that more elderly will opt out for voluntary euthanasia. More to pay for accommodation bonds, The Australian

nimby (not verified)

Fri, 2011-01-21 15:31

Thousands of red-winged black birds fell from the sky Dec. 31 in Beebe, Ark. State officials determined they died as a result of blunt trauma. A few days later an estimated 500 red-winged blackbirds were found lying dead along a highway in Pointe Coupee Parish, La. Some fear the bird die-offs across the country are the result of pollution or even signs of the apocalypse. However, United States Department of Agriculture wildlife biologist Ricky Woods said he's confident he knows what killed the birds. He said it was the USDA, which poisoned them at a feedlot in Nebraska. Woods said most of the birds died near the site of the feed lot, but about 200 were strong enough to fly about 10 miles north to Yankton, where they died, puzzling some local residents. He could not say how many birds died altogether. He said starlings at the livestock facility were targeted for eradication when the poison. “(The feedlot owners) had a significant number of birds on their property consuming feed and causing issues with their fecal matter,” Woods stated. “They contacted us. We came in and checked out the area. We then used a poison that is specific only to birds.” “They basically have to be suffering property damage or losing a significant amount of money,” he said. “There has to be some sort of hardship before we’ll come in and do any reduction.” The number of animals and birds eradicated and vilified as "pests" by the livestock industries is abysmal. We must question the ethics of these large monocultures. The 5,000 red-winged blackbirds which fell from the sky in Beebe, Ark. wildlife experts determined died as a result of being startled by New Year's Eve fireworks, and then flying into buildings and trees.

nimby (not verified)

Fri, 2011-01-21 13:01

The government is considering a new "desal tax" for Victorians to pay for the blow-out costs of the desalination plant. Our water storages are rising and sufficient for at least 6 years even if we have a drought. However, due to the Brumby government's mismanagement and greed, we still have to pay for it!
`
The Thompson dam was opened in 1983 to ensure Melbourne was drought proof. However, due to boosting our population beyond ecological limits and the drought, we had to pay for this monstrosity. We hear all the time about "sustainable" from our government, but it is always ignored. The people of Melbourne have learnt to use less water, but our State government can't?

It is all about population growth to buy into our property market. Costs rise when we outstrip our ecological limits.(Emphasis added - Editor)

No-one in parti... (not verified)

Thu, 2011-01-20 22:06

Sydney Morning Herald, 19 January 2010: Mr Kelvin Thomson said on Wednesday that he had written to Ms Gillard worried about a report in Indian business newspaper The Economic Times that Australia intended to target Chandigarh, Punjab and other cities in northern India with a promotional campaign in 2012 looking to attract skilled migrants. "I told the Prime Minister I do not want the number of skilled migrants to increase, and do not support Australia running promotional campaigns to try to attract migrants," he wrote on his website blog. Australians are required by law to complete regular Census forms on the understanding that collected data enables an informed government to predict and plan future infrastructure along with an adequate supply of skilled/unskilled worker requirements up to 20 years hence. So what use is the Bureau of Statistics and its Census data if the information we supply isn't translating into a pre-planned and appropriately trained longer-term workforce? Despite Census data, we have insufficient numbers of workers including a severe shortage of doctors and nurses, and certainly a housing shortage. We have good people. We have universities and technical colleges. We have talent. We have tenacity. The eastern State floods are giving all of us a wide open window on Australian culture, and it sure looks damned better to me than anything else on offer. But are governments focusing on our own population? Are we Australians numero uno in our own country, or not? There's not going to be much room left at the Inn for thousands of diabolically displaced Australians. Due to government policy that encourages new arrivals and their lengthy claims on housing, health services and living allowances, our Inn is already overflowing. And more than likely, new arrival largesse has been partially funded by our very own Australian taxpaying flood victims. Ah, the cruel, cruel irony.

John Marlowe

Wed, 2011-01-19 12:36

The 2011 flood refugees from Queensland, NSW, WA, Tasmania and now Victoria should sail to Christmas Island.

They will be escorted by Customs for express processing, given free medical treatment, clothing, dry accommodation, three meals a day.
Would they be queue jumping?

Top poem. Seems this wide brown land is not just for us, but the world's needy.

John Marlowe
malleebull.org

Anonymous (not verified)

Wed, 2011-01-19 08:28

When the rains are flooding down - out the back of Bourke,
And the Barcoo's rising fast, and you cannot get to work ,
You see the kangaroos and wallabies just swimming for dear life,
And you fall down on your knees,
Thank God the refugees are still alright!

And when you lose your family, and many friends are dead,
There's one thought you keep, firmly in your head,
And even though you shiver, and there is no help for you in sight,
Just thank your lucky stars, the refugees are still alright.

You must keep it firmly fixed in mind for all to see,
That you are multi cultural and just love the refugee.
So you must understand there is no proper help for you,
The government is busy on refugee work too.

So hang out on a rooftop, or swim for your bloody life ,
Thank God it's not a refugee caught in such bloody strife.
And the pain that you are bearing just bear it like a man -
Compared to a refugee, you are just an also ran.

Just don't expect your Weetbix, or even a few oats.
The tucker must be saved, for the never ending boats ,
So keep on swimming strongly, for a hundred k's or more -
And think of refugees, and not of getting sore!

Dorothea Magnolia - 2011

Thank you for you thoughtful poem, Dorothea. One thought, though: I would't agree that "the refugees are still alright". Most are clearly suffering hardship and distress. However, the fact that those, who have taken up their cause, seem to care so little for the hardships endured by native Australians -- housing unaffordability, homelessness, falling wages, joblessness and now flooding -- is a concern. Furthermore, I have never heard, from any refugee rights activist, a practical proposal that would end the plight of all the many millions refugees in refugee camps, who must want to come here and not just the relatively few who can at least afford to pay people smugglers to bring them here illegally. It seems to me that the actual effect of refugee rights activism is to provide a cover for those profiteers who have increased economic immigration to its current record levels, dwarfing the refugee intake, thereby making life harder for the poorest Australians and to divert our attention from the real fight against the terrible ongoing wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq, Yemen and Somalia which have made the world refugee problem so much worse than it otherwise would be. - Editor

Sheila Newman

Tue, 2011-01-18 22:58

Seems pretty obvious that this very expensive inquiry (estimated $15 million) will define out of its parameters the main question, which is who is responsible for permitting building below the 1974 floodline. Who is responsible for permitting uninsurable bilding? Who made money out of allowing people to place their principal earnings and lives in a flood path?
"Ms Bligh said the inquiry, to be headed by Queensland Justice Cate Holmes, would provide an interim report in August and a final report in 12 months' time. The deputy commissioners will be former Queensland police commissioner Jim O'Sullivan and dam expert Phil Cummins. Ms Bligh said the inquiry would look at issues such as the preparation and planning of governments, the performance of private insurers and the immediate response and management of authorities. The adequacy of forecasts and warning systems, particularly in relation to what happened in the Lockyer Valley area, would also be examined."
Source: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/queensland-floods/queensland-announces-commission-of-inquiry-into-devastating-floods/story-fn7iwx3v-1225989638401 Sheila Newman, population sociologist home page

John Marlowe

Tue, 2011-01-18 22:29

Look out - it's Chinese year of the rabbit!

Chinese superstition claims that people born in the Year of the Rabbit are articulate, talented, and ambitious. They are virtuous, reserved, and have excellent taste. Rabbit people are admired, trusted, and are often financially lucky. So lookout Australia!

Calicivirus is a bit cruel, but Costello's baby bonus is still being lapped up by immigrants.

Effective 1 July 2010 to 30 June 2011 the Baby Bonus is $5,294.
The Baby Bonus is paid in 13 equal fortnightly instalments. Baby Bonus is payable for each child in a multiple birth.

So under Labor/Liberal have as many babies as you want and get $5294 a head!

[Baby Bonus.com]

...more pressure on Australian infrastructure!
..tried booking your infant into childcare in urban Australia lately?

John Marlowe
malleebull.org

No-one in parti... (not verified)

Tue, 2011-01-18 17:23

Firstly, I wouldn't give one quarter of one cent to the Salvos for reasons known to hundreds of abused in Salvation Army "care" between the late 1800's and 1990's. Charities have the perpetual habit of achieving records of poor performance, both monetarily and other, and they they think we will quickly forget. Oh no, not all of us forget. Secondly, when the time is right, the Brisbane Flood Study that was withheld from public scrutiny until Campbell Newman stepped in around 2004 should be brought to public attention. Insurance companies and lawyers may then be able to bring to account all those who were privy to the Study, but failed to publicly inform constituents. Indeed, successive Labor governments and an earlier Brisbane City Council appear to have much to answer for in regard to building regulations. Anna Bligh has done no more than she is paid to do - front the media and provide facts. She has continually kept her most experienced male uniformed officials in the media conference background. The two women - Gillard and Bligh - are political performers, both of them only just clinging on to power. They are not trained disaster managers and both have long and unacceptably high records of incompetence. Neither have the credibility to inspire managerial/budgetary confidence just on the basis of fronting the media regularly during a crisis or being followed by television cameras for the few minutes that they encounter citizens who have lost so much. We will see how forthcoming the Queensland government is on the matter of the Brisbane Flood Study's warnings and recommendations, and how they go about dodging the Australian public's inevitable, angry questions.

Anonymous (not verified)

Tue, 2011-01-18 10:03

Rebuilding from floods and mudslides in Brazil that killed 647 people will cost at least 2 billion reais ($1.2 billion), according to estimates by the three hardest-hit areas in Rio de Janeiro state. The floods in Rio are the world’s fourth-deadliest disaster involving floods and landslides over the past 12 months, according to the Centre for Research on the Epidemiology of Disasters. While climate change is pointed to as the main cause of recent flooding in Australia, Brazil and the United States, the lack of vegetation is contributing to the severity of the floods. But while southeastern Brazil has been hit by torrential rains, the Amazon rainforest and other parts of the country have been suffering drought. Brazil's abundant rainfall that has made it possible for it to become one of the world's leading agricultural producers and exporters, with only about five percent of the country's farmland needing irrigation. But this advantage could largely be lost, due to deforestation of the Amazon jungle. "Flying rivers" are winds already laden with moisture from the Atlantic ocean, and pick up more moisture when they cross the Amazon jungle, before turning south after running into the barrier of the Andes. Without the rains generated by the jungle, desertification would be the fate of a large part of south-central Brazil. Reforestation efforts that are winning back parts of the Sahara desert but monoculture farming does not solve the problem. IUCN, International Union for Conservation of Nature, helps the world find pragmatic solutions to our most pressing environment and development challenges. IUCN says well-managed floodplains and good urban planning can help reduce the impact of disasters such as flooding. Illegal construction, deforestation and unregulated housing has been blamed in part for the devastating effects of the flooding in Brazil. Loss of life due to flooding and mudslides has caused huge devastation to suburbs surrounding cities, leading to growing accusations of irresponsible planning by city authorities. The same could be warning to us in Australia, and town planners in flood-prone plains.

nimby

Tue, 2011-01-18 08:09

Arthur Calwell said, in the 1940s, that Australia's population of 7 million was not enough and wanted it tripled. Now, we have more than tripled it. There is a push for "big Australia" still, despite Julia Gillard's dismissal of it, and the growth continues. This growth is not inevitable, something that we must accommodate. We are likely to be over 36 million by 2050. It is socially engineered by our politicians, not from grass-roots level. Immigration may have helped and stimulated our economy and culture, but it is out of our control. Most Australians accept a small number of immigration, in a non-racist way, but the mass immigration we are forced to accommodate is contrary to our interests. We have seen costs soar, homelessness, unemployment, urban sprawl, "shortages" of public service and environmental damage. There are limits to growth, and no program spelling out the historical significance of immigration will compensate for the effects of forced and misanthropic runaway population growth. The growth-pushing factions are self-serving and are all too powerful. Add your comment: SBS Immigration Nation

John Marlowe

Mon, 2011-01-17 22:50

Why have so many thousands of traditional urban Australians made a quantum relocation outside the familiar area in which they grew up?

Why have so many thousands of traditional urban Australians moved away from the capital cities of Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane?

Why is Australia's eastern coastline now booming with development and mainly by traditional urban Australians?

What is the change that has driven this?

It is not the lure of the sea. The 'sea change' label applies to the demographic phenomenon which began from the late 1980s due to immigrant domination of selective urban suburbs. It has been the ethnic push, not the sea lure.

Many communities of urban Australia have been overrun by single ethnic groups settling in high concentration. Many of these immigrants have been far from poor and certainly not refugees. Property values have soared in these selective suburbs, outpricing the affordability of offspring of traditional locals.

Multiculturalism has enclaved urban Australia with foreign nationalities of non-English speaking foreign cultures that don't seek to integrate, but encouraged to bring their baggage, foreign shop signage, imported racism against locals, reminiscent of the takeover mentality of colonial British to Australia's Aborigines - marginalising locals and psychologically encircling them to the point of fleeing.

What is the demographic mix of Australia's urban unemployed and homeless. Guess, and it ain't immigrants.

Ethnic crime across south western Sydney is out of control - gangs, drive by shootings, home invasions, international drug syndicates, bashing and rapes.
The media report the crimes but remain comply politically correctly not to disclose ethnicity, thus encouraging the real social causes to fester.

Pacific Islander, Middle Eastern, African violence in urban Australia - why are the statistics kept secret from the Australian public?

It's a primitive animal instinctive of kind wanting to be with kind - Indigenous, locals and newcomers - no different. It wasn't Arthur Caldwell who buggered urban Australia, it was Whitlam's naive flood gate multiculturalism that started in the late 1970s.

The demographic exodus is very real and the government is treasonous and complicit. We must have quotas on immigration like New Zealand, or Australia will become Southern Asia in every sence.

John Marlowe
malleebull.org

nimby (not verified)

Mon, 2011-01-17 19:11

It is crucial to examine each new city development to gauge the extent to which the buildings and the spaces around them will be affected by weather extremes and how liveability will fare. The intention is to absorb an extra millions people through planning and higher density living in our cities. There's an assumption that booming national and metropolitan populations can be accommodated simply by being smarter and innovative and harnessing technology. However, large numbers spoken of aren't a fait accompli. Better that planners and governments turn their ingenuity to ways of limiting that growth and thus the spread of hot and unsustainable cities that stretch our natural resources further. High density housing has worse thermal properties per occupant than suburban sprawl, It takes people away from the health benefits of pet ownership and of local food production. Urban sprawl is already essentially continuous and the lack of planning has left little provision, for public transport or even roads, without massive disruption and expense. The expense is passed onto the public. A tumour will expand but at some threshold start dying, unless some of the cancer cells gain mutations promoting new blood vessels to bring nutrients and remove toxic waste products. This process is essential to the continued growth of the tumour. Without resources and infrastructure renewal, our own numbers could become malignant. We do need referendum on the topic of population growth so people can vote on this important issue. I, and others, will refuse to live in a high density towers. When you have people from different countries and ages and religions there is no sensitivity and tolerance and can be very unlivable place. We are not a homogeneous society like Japan or China where people can more easily tolerate closeness.

Tigerquoll

Mon, 2011-01-17 11:14

Don't trust Queensland Premier Bligh with public donations. If you want the money to reach the victims of the floods give to Salvos direct.

Learn from the outcome of the 2009 Victorian Bushfire Appeal...

Victorian bushfire victims say they feel abandoned
by John Ferguson and Wayne Flower, Herald Sun, 5th May 2009

"Many victims of Victoria's Black Saturday bushfires feel abandoned, helpless and trapped by red tape and government indecision.

Widespread anger among victims fighting to rebuild has been detailed to the Herald Sun. Some victims are being forced to live in caravans and tents as bitterly cold weather hits the mountains. Most are yet to receive their full entitlements from the Bushfire Appeal Fund.

Residents have complained to that no one can tell them what houses can be rebuilt in fire zones. Many blocks affected by the fires are yet to be cleared.

The Herald Sun has spoken to dozens of fire victims in the past week, discovering growing anger over the way they have been treated.
Just $37 million of the $334 million bushfire fund has made its way to victims. Callignee fire victims Louise and Tony Mann, who almost perished with their two children on Black Saturday, are becoming the public face of discontent in Gippsland.

They are outraged over how the bushfire appeal has been handled, how insurance claims are dealt with, and the lack of information.
"The biggest problem is we're not being fed information. There is no information coming out," Mr Mann said.

In a series of developments:

SCARCELY any victims have been able to start rebuilding because of local government inaction.

MANY fire victims have yet to receive donations.

IT could be two years before Marysville is cleared of debris.

LOOTING is a serious concern among fire victims.

RED tape, including too many forms, multiple identification checks and the need for victims to see financial advisers, is infuriating many.

MANY houses may never be rebuilt because of a lack of insurance and fire fears.

SO far only eight of the homes in Kinglake's Pine Ridge Rd may be rebuilt.

Last week, the Herald Sun visited the worst-affected areas, including Kinglake, Pheasant Creek, Strathewen, St Andrews, Marysville and Callignee. Many Marysville house sites have been untouched since February. Grocon is still interviewing fire victims about what should be removed.

Kinglake's Rodney Elwers is living in a caravan and annexe, waiting to see when his house site will be cleared. He is unsure how he can rebuild his brick house on National Park Rd, because of changing building regulations. He is looking forward to his annexe being made wind-proof.

"I've just given up on them," he said of the Department of Human Services.

Hazeldene resident Julie De Maria, whose house was spared, said there was anger that not enough was being done to help victims.
"It's a bit slow - it's the consensus of everybody," she said. "You can't get an answer out of council. Nothing."

Strathewen fire victim Ollie Shevchenko was worried about councils' role, urging officials to leave trees alone.

Bushfire Appeal Fund spokeswoman Melissa Arch said the process for obtaining rebuilding and recovery grants was as simple as possible.

"There is an expectation when there is a significant amount (of money) that there is some paperwork to complete. But it is not onerous and we're advising people, if they're having any difficulty, they've got case managers who can help them," she said.

Ms Arch denied that the latest grants, which were released on April 8, were taking too long to reach those in need.
"We're putting through between $1.5 million and $2 million into people's bank accounts every day," she said.

================

Disgusting treatment of victims by government. Look out Queenslanders!

Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia

Bandicoot

Mon, 2011-01-17 07:49

From the point of view of many humans, the term "natural disaster" is a convenient scapegoat because it allow a person (or a whole nation) to blame nature for their own poor planning.

The full comment has been republished here. It includes material originally from Natural News as well as a further comment by Bandicoot about the Queensland floods. .

James Sinnamon

Sun, 2011-01-16 19:23

Whilst Tigerquoll rightly condemns those who have profited from creating the circumstances, which have needlessly caused so much more harm than should have occurred, it is nevertheless essential that decent ordinary people do as much as they can to relieve the hardship. If they were to wait until those, who should be held responsible, pay to relieve the hardship they have caused, donate what they rightly should relief, which is so badly needed won't be possible. Of course, intending donors must look very carefully at appeal funds to ensure that the money they give to is most likely to reach those most in need.

Tigerquoll

Sun, 2011-01-16 15:01

The public should NOT have to donate one cent to the Queensland Premiers Flood Relief Appeal. The donations, or should I say blood money, should come wholly from Liberal, Labor and National Party coffers. For it is these corrupt political parties that received donations (read 'bribes') from influential developers to get flood prone development approved and the forests ripped down.

And those developers made millions and millions. Look at the scale of the Riverside developments alone!

Now the people of Queensland are paying the price of that corruption and council gross negligence with their homes, livelihoods and lives. Many victims have no insurance because the insurance companies were well aware. Many will never recover. After the media limelight has dimmed, many will sink into despair and worse.

For the Queensland Labor Party to have the gall to ask for public donations is TRIPLE DIPPING - (1) from taxes and rates already collected, (2) donations from developer already collected and now (3) hoodwinking the public for donations.

Cough up Bligh and spare the epistles and calculated Boudiccan body language.

You may have fool some people this time.

Tigerquoll
Suggan Buggan
Snowy River Region
Victoria 3885
Australia

Les Hutchinson (not verified)

Sun, 2011-01-16 10:18

Thank you for this informative commentary Vivienne, and to Sheila for getting candobetter back online! The info re developers aka land exploiters/land pirates salivating over these lands is a useful summary and starting point for further research. The excellent photos were actually taken by Darren Novak of Oyster Bay, Sydney. We need to try our utmost to save these kanga families and all this beautiful bush from the unending depredations of stupid land-greedy white men. Hopefully the REWARD offered by WLPA for info re the Morisset kangaroo maimers and murderers will bring results via CrimeStoppers and the Courts.

James Sinnamon

Sat, 2011-01-15 17:10

These were posted to a discussion about the road toll on the John Quiggin web site. So far, they have drawn one response which is included below. Sunday 16 December update: I had not noticed one statistic, given at the start of the discussion, that does seem to show that failure to enforce road rules with sufficient vigour can lead to greater fatality rates even if the roads are much less crowded as they must have been in 1970, when 1061 died on Victoria Roads. This makes the appalling Victorian road toll of 300 of 2010 look almost acceptable by comparison. One of my responses follows: Even roads that much less crowded as they must have been in 1970, still saw horrific road tolls of 15 jan 11 It had escaped my attention that at the start of the post Professor Quiggin did give the evidence, in hard statistics, which showed conclusively that too little enforcement of traffic rules and automotive safety standards were largely the cause of Victoria’s horrific road toll of 1061 in 1970 as compared to the still unacceptable Victorian road toll of 300 in 2010. My apologies. Clearly, unless harsh penalties are applied, the road toll will be unacceptable even on roads as uncrowded as they were in 1970. Nevertheless, still I think that much of what I wrote in my previous posts still stands. If acceptable road safety could be achieved just by punishing, ever more harshly, those who have broken rules, which our authorities responsible for road safety tell us divide drivers into those who are driving ‘safely’ and those who are not, we should have achieved that long before now. If 300 were still killed in 2010, even with the harsh enforcement of traffic rules that was applied then, then I think other factors I have mentioned, which are clearly detrimental to road safety have to be addressed. One of the posts which caused me to look again more closely is below. Most recent comment of 15 jan 11 Liam, I would certainly like to see more comprehensive Australian road toll statistics. The road toll statistics for Victoria you have offered to John from the 1950s to 1998 would be a good start. Is it available on-line? Is it available in a digital electronic format? I think comprehensive road toll statistics would reveal a lot more than our Governments and the greedy vested interests they serve would want us to know, for example, what is the correlation between the death toll and: * the crowding of so many millions more people into this country in recent decades? * abysmal urban design, which forces so many of us to travel, usually by car, vast distance every week to go to work, school, shopping centres, other vital amenities, for recreation or to socialise? * lack of decent public transport, which is really only just another aspect of Australia's poor urban design. Are the Ponzi 'growth' economists plans to further double Australia's population likely to (a) increase or (b) decrease our road fatality rate? (BTW, I am surprised that my previous comment did not draw a response. Of course, I don't really mind that much if it doesn't.) Earlier comment, referred to above Breaking road rules is not, in my view, always the same as driving dangerously nor is exceeding the speed limit always the same as speeding. In past times, when the enforcement of road rules was nowhere near as strict and harsh as it is today, many who, from time to time, broke these rules which arbitrarily distinguish between ‘safe’ driving and ‘unsafe’ driving, were still rightly regarded as safe and careful drivers. Very likely, many such drivers would have found themselves regularly deprived of their driving licenses if today’s harsh driving law enforcement regime had been in force back then. Individuals, who break road rules, even to the point of statistically increasing the risk to themselves and to others, are not all reckless and uncaring. Much of the breaking of traffic rules is done by people pressed for time by the pressures of life imposed by economic ‘reforms’ of recent decades and our poorly designed cities and road networks which force many millions of commuters every week to endure many hours of gridlock to go to and from work or to other necessary life amenities. The people who have imposed these economic ‘reforms’ and poor city planning on us, made even worse by population growth, that few existing residents want, are at least as culpable as ordinary road users for the appalling road toll. "Specious logic", a response to my above two posts Your argument is one of those act v rule utilitarian claims. It plays fast and loose with collective action problems and tries to sneak things into the uncertainty envelope. It is specious logic. We absolutely need rational and robustly enforced road rules. That’s not the same as arguing that everyone who breaches one is reckless or will cause a tangible harm to another’s legitimate interests. What the breacher often does though is impose the risk on people who haven’t consented to it, in much the same way that some one embezzling a trust fund to play the commodity markets may welll make a fortune and yet never cost his or her unwitting creditors a penny. Yet he is still a schyster if he is imposing risk on others to which they have not consented. If the rules could be robustly enforced in real time, there would be an argument for more variable speed limits and for latitude for those with better maintained vehicles and proven skill and competence i.e. a better match between risks, costs and rewards. The fact that there was more margin for error would create a benefit that could be shared about more equitably. If nobody is driving with PCA and nearly everyone is sticking to the speed limit and respecting traffic control signals and all the demonstrably unfit persons are off the roads as drivers, then maybe everyone can drive a little faster, ceteris paribus. But making up your own rules to suit is simply externalising the cost of your convenience.

Bandicoot

Sat, 2011-01-15 17:08

Lord Mayor Quinn said it would have been irresponsible to go public with alarming findings which were subject to further analysis, provided the results of a new study showing that the probable levels in a one-in-100-year flood had reduced to normal. Despite warnings by scientific and engineering experts in 1999, successive Labor-dominated Brisbane councils and Queensland Labor governments worked to reject and bury recommendations for sweeping changes in planning, emergency relief and transparency when true flood levels for Brisbane were revealed in the aftermath of the record 1974 floods. As a minimum, developers and residents need to be advised of the actual flood risk on their property, the study found. The engineers and hydrologists involved in the study warned that the next major flood in Brisbane would be between 1m and 2m higher than anticipated by the Brisbane town plan. Insurance company lawyers should have a field day with the study, as it provides evidence the council chose to wittingly ignore warnings that its decision to maintain its strategy would increase its liability and cause the loss of Natural Disaster Relief funds. It was anticipated that during a large flood similar in magnitude to that experienced in 1974, by using mitigation facility within Wivenhoe Dam, flood levels will be reduced downstream by an estimated 2 metres. The problem is that the “shock absorber” couldn't take much more. The recommendations in the report for radical changes in planning strategy, emergency plans and transparency about the true flood levels for Brisbane were rejected and the report was covered up. Alarming report on risks covered up - The Australian

nimby (not verified)

Sat, 2011-01-15 13:13

Source: Urban sprawl aided Aussie torrent: experts
Sydney (AFP) Jan 14, 2011

Rapacious development in fast-growing Queensland magnified the horror of Australia's epic floods, experts said, with natural buffers paved over by concrete and new construction paying scant heed to environmental risks. Experts said the rapid development of Brisbane and surrounding areas had worsened the damage by replacing absorbent green corridors with cement, and by erecting new buildings on vulnerable sites.

A comprehensive 1999 Brisbane River Flood Study made alarming findings about predicted devastation to tens of thousands of flood-prone properties, which were given the green light for residential development since the 1974 flood. The study warned that the next major flood in Brisbane would be between 1m and 2mç higher than anticipated by the Brisbane town plan.

The council had permitted the development of thousands of properties whose owners were led to believe they would be out of harm's way in a flood on the scale of 1974.

A high-level public servant, who revealed that the local and state government at the time were less concerned with flood risks and more interested in seeing property development in low-lying areas. Anna Bligh and previous governments were more interested in short-term gains, economic growth, population growth and employment than the welfare of residents of the future. Developments have all taken place in areas that were not flood liable in 1974, but they've increased the amount of water... (and) both volume and velocity of water flow during that time," said Chris Eves, from the Queensland University of Technology.

Misplaced faith by governments and residents in the flood mitigation potential of Wivenhoe Dam meant they played into the hands of property developers. Lord mayor at the time, Tim Quinn, and others in the civic cabinet at the time had known about the study for four years but withheld its existence from ratepayers.

Sunshine Coast Mayor Bob Abbot said the “open for business” mantra being driven by the development industry had trampled over sensible planning schemes.

Allan Sutherland, mayor of Moreton Regional Council, said a review of the SEQ Regional Plan, population projections and the urban footprint were essential. Mr Sutherland said flooding was a major issue in the old Caboolture area where poor planning appraisals had seen developments cause downstream effects with disastrous consequences.

When you allow development on the flood plain it has to change the flow path of floodwater. Rebuilding everything in exactly the same places and in exactly the same way... does nothing to help communities adapt to future risks, but simply leaves these areas just as vulnerable to the next disaster of an even greater magnitude, says Rob Roggema, an urban planning expert at The Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology.

There need to be an inquiry similar to last year's Royal Commission into the 2009 Victorian bushfires.

See also: Forum discussion - Water policy after the flood, Crowded Flood-path: Lockyer-Valley, Wivenhoe Dam and Brisbane, Queensland, Australia 2011, Cost of Queensland floods made worse by government policy on land-use planning and population by Sheila Newman, Council rates system destroys urban rainforest and community in Brisbane by Geoffrey Taylor.

submitted by Nimby

quark

Sat, 2011-01-15 12:26

I just flicked on the television to see the flood news and came across a program about a wildlife rehabilitation centre for orphaned kangaroos. The carers were so organised, so familiar with the animals and showed the babies sitting in artificial pouches in baskets in their lounge room, then the slightly older ones in an enclosure preparatory to being released. All animals are released. They were describing the temperament of the kangaroos as very gentle and friendly. I hope they are not released anywhere near the Morriset Hospital to have missiles (cars) aimed at them and to be tortured by vile psychopaths who should actually be in gaol.

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