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Tuesday, 24/08/2010 The Department of Environment and Conservation in Western Australia has been accused of animal cruelty, following a parliamentary inquiry into its management of former pastoral leases. The inquiry's report found the DEC had neglected its landholder responsibilities, allowed hundreds of animals to die, allowed feral animals and weeds to flourish and had not fully complied with the principles of the 'Good Neighbour Policy'. Colleen Barker, a former employee of a tourism venture which operated on one of the DEC stations, says she saw hundreds of kangaroos die of dehydration after the department closed down a number of the station's watering points. She believes the State Government should be held accountable.

"I do believe that in regards to the inhumane death of many animals; if a pastoralist or a farmer was to do the same thing that the DEC has done, they would be clearly prosecuted," she says. "The evidence has clearly shown that the DEC has failed and there has been inhumane deaths of animals... I believe they (DEC) should be prosecuted."

Ms Barker says during her time at Cobra Station, it was clear to her that the DEC had no management plan for the pastoral lease.

"I think the DEC has their hands full, and if they aren't able to put more manpower and resources towards the management of these stations, then I think they actually shouldn't own them."

To read the parliamentary inquiry yourself, go to: http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/web/newwebparl.nsf/iframewebpages/Committees+-+Inquiries http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201008/s2991822.htm To unsubscribe from these announcements, login to the forum and uncheck "Receive forum announcements and important notifications by email." in your profile. You can view the full announcement by following this link: http://www.liveexportshame.com/news2/index.php?topic=6361.0

I hadn't heard of this CEC before - but going to their website, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. "Human beings are not animals! We're not beasts! Human beings are created with reason, in God's image, and are not bound by any sort of resource limitation!" etc. And I'm sure they believe Australia can support a perpetually growing population despite the mathematical absurdity of it. Humans are animal. We are very smart in some ways, but in other ways (planning for the long term in particular) we're as dumb as any other type of animal.

Pundits of every possible political stripe plead for continued population growth, and accuse those of wanting to halt population growth of being in the opposite camp. Capitalists accuse those opposing population growth as being naive Marxist socialists. Marxists accuse those of opposing population growth as being evil capitalists who want to cull the poor. Feminists accuse those of opposing population growth as traditionalists wanting to control and restrict a woman's right to have children. etc. etc. Actually they all seem to be obeying some kind of powerful genetic impulse to reproduce and multiply with no thought for the long term consequences. In nature this invariably ends up with that species crashing catastrophically.

Back in the 1960s, college kids gave up a Sunday meal to send food to Bangladesh. Result: they grew from 80 million to a whopping 157 million people. So what’s the problem? Bangladeshis live in a flood plain the size of Wisconsin. Human overpopulation dictates millions of miserable, hopeless and terrible lives. Living conditions: beyond sickening! Today, nearby Pakistan suffers an enormous population As a world traveler, I find it almost comical if not outright astonishing that Marlowe defiantly rejects any talk of overpopulation. With Pakistan’s 180 million population on its way to 335 million by mid century—when does Marlowe or the leaders of Pakistan ‘think’ it might be advantageous to distribute birth control rather than food? Why does culture and religion trump reason, logic and rational action? Why would the leaders of a country proceed toward even greater human tragedy? Why scoff at the realities they face today that will grow 100 fold within 40 years? How can one country and all its people be that stupid? You can count on one thing to solve all their problems: Mother Nature! Her methods grow more ominous as Pakistan’s population grows more unsustainable. Frosty Wooldridge www.BeforeItsNews.com

Nice post, I like your article, the writing style is worth learning. As a free writer, I like reading, today, it's my honor to read your blog. Thanks. by Supra Cuban. Editorial comment: Thanks for the compliment. Other readers should know that this comment is partially an advertisement and that candobetter does not necessarily endorse any advertised product.

The story of josie has quite touched me and very reflective of my own experience with Brushtail Possums. I am in the area which was nearly totally destroyed by the black saturday bushfires where many native animals were killed, displaced which has led to their death or suffered very severe and painful injuries from burns, eg "Sam" the koala. Many of the native animal carers in this area also had their properties destroyed and in some cases lost many animals let alone being in a position to be able to accept more. I took on the care of some brushtail possums, and have found that it has been one of the most rewarding thing I have ever done. Brushtail possums can and will bond with humans by their own choice and will form very close relationships with you. I saved 7 animals that were victims of these fires, five of which rehabilitated into the wild but two of the possums stayed with me did so by"THEIR" choice, they were quite free to return to the wild if they wished to do so. The stupid comments made by you Dave shows you are the one that has the problem because the only freak animal here is you, stick to hugging trees Dave, you know more about doing that than you do about possums. Because of my efforts seven animals are now alive that would not be and in all probability they would have suffered slow horrible deaths, What a horrible person I must be to stop this from happening!!!. What is the difference between a dog or a cat loving its owner or a possum loving its owner. Possums have very individual personalities and like a dog or a cat they respond to affection, they fret when your not there and they will stress severely if you try to separate them from their owner. Here in Victoria the same bone headed mentality exists where the belief of the so called experts is that the possum is better off being put down rather than live with a human owner but as least here in Victoria unlike Queensland, some latitude is allowed for licences to be issued possess these delightful animals under some tight regulations. The look on the face of children to able see a possum close-up and to be able to give her some food or a little pat on the head (which my possums love by the way) and have them responds by giving child a little lick or a snuggle with their little pink noses. Yes Dave, This is so harmful and a real exploitation of a native animal and real danger of teaching children appreciation these animals. In conclusion I am not advocating that anybody goes out and catch a possum with the aim as having it as a pet, If you want a pet get a cat or dog, in all likelyhood if you were to pick up a wild brushtail possum it would tear you to pieces, Possums are very intelligent animals that learn very quickly and on warm summer nights certainly entertain with there antics, there is no rule that fits all but please let some common sense prevail. Enjoy these wonderful and unique animals.

Editorial comment: This seems rather long for a comment, but I have approved it all the same - JS, 22 Aug 2010 The Central World Problem - The Human Brain Cannot Do Reality, by Gabriel Chiron When consciousness is incarnated in a human body, it gets reflected in the human brain as pitifully conditioned cognition. This conditioned cognition will itself tend to be hardly more than a node of one or another of the cultural or societal forms of mass hypnosis as a collective belief or disbelief system, which is further modified by governmental or religious propaganda as well as commercial advertising. The cultural or societal shared belief or disbelief system is what is called the Socially Constructed Reality, which gets projected onto the unknown Real Universe or World through virtually all the human brains of a culture, society or cognitive region of the unknown world, the actual global and cosmic Reality. Socially Constructed Realities, SCR’s, are always an admixture of truth and falsity, of reality and illusion, and different SCR’s often support or promote various modes of oppression or warfare toward minority or apposite SCR’s. Each SCR dwells in its own distorted and inadequate partial “Reality” which is either under oppression or attempting to dominate and control the whole of humanity and the future. This is an anal-territorial struggle where the political, business and religious leaders are more or less insane, false and unable to comprehend the actual whole of humanity on Earth and throughout the Universe. The SCR’s, the Socially Constructed Realities, are wretched and conflictatory. So the various world problems (the global problematique) continue to be reinforced by an intellectually and spiritually weak humanity led by a predominance of corrupt, lying, criminally insane abusers of material, technological and military power. Pseudo-Realities are oppressing other Pseudo-Realities, and if a particular Pseudo-Reality overthrows its oppressor and “comes into power”, it will then inevitably begin to oppress its own minority Pseudo-Realities. Real Reality of the Whole never oppresses, nor can it be oppressed; never conquers, nor can it be conquered. Oppression or being oppressed, conquering or being conquered, is only possible for deluded, shallow, prejudiced human brains. All this has happened, is happening and will continue to happen because the human brain of any region of the world cannot do Reality because of its conditioning, its Socially Constructed Reality, its membership in one or another of the forms of debilitated mass hypnosis. Socially Constructed Realities, SCR’s, are always an admixture of truth and falsity, of reality and illusion, and different SCR’s often support or promote various modes of oppression or warfare toward minority or apposite SCR’s. Each SCR dwells in its own distorted and inadequate partial “Reality” which is either under oppression or attempting to dominate and control the whole of humanity and the future. This is an anal-territorial struggle where the political, business and religious leaders are more or less insane, false and unable to comprehend the actual whole of humanity on Earth and throughout the Universe. The SCR’s, the Socially Constructed Realities, are wretched and conflictatory. So the various world problems (the global problematique) continue to be reinforced by an intellectually and spiritually weak humanity led by a predominance of corrupt, lying, criminally insane abusers of material, technological and military power. Pseudo-Realities are oppressing other Pseudo-Realities, and if a particular Pseudo-Reality overthrows its oppressor and “comes into power”, it will then inevitably begin to oppress its own minority Pseudo-Realities. Real Reality of the Whole never oppresses, nor can it be oppressed; never conquers, nor can it be conquered. Oppression or being oppressed, conquering or being conquered, is only possible for deluded, shallow, prejudiced human brains. All this has happened, is happening and will continue to happen because the human brain of any region of the world cannot do Reality because of its conditioning, its Socially Constructed Reality, its membership in one or another of the forms of debilitated mass hypnosis. Will you, the individual, now awaken yourself more completely and thoroughly from any socially constructed or conditioned belief, disbelief or form of social identification that still possesses your consciousness and deforms your cognitive neurosystem? Are you willing to totally question your assumptions about yourself, others and your world? Will you question your current paradigm or mental model of any important subject of your concern? Will you break down your present worldview or cosmogony into its fundamental elements and restructure it into a better, more open-ended whole that accommodates new or apposite elements that you have habitually excluded without real knowledge and understanding? For instance, if you are a conditioned Christian, Technological Atheist or Illuminati Satanist of the New World Order, try finding some verses in the Koran that might show you how you are losing a necessary higher connection with something like a Ruling Spirit or Overlord. If you are a conditioned Muslim, try reading the Bhagavad Geeta and see where it might help you come to a more personal Yoga or Self-realization system beyond outer social and religious duties. If you are a Hindu, try looking deeply into various teachings of Buddhism that could take your entire cosmogony and throw it into a whole new perspective beyond both Hinduism and Buddhism as such. What is the greater reality beyond karma and reincarnation as such without falling below the causal level into silly beliefs in one life only followed by eternal Heaven or Hell, or without falling into a purely materialistic perspective that says our mortal physical existence is all we have followed by an ignoble and meaningless extinction of a biological robot that imagined it was a “self” or that actually incarnated an imaginary thing called “consciousness”? Will you see for yourself that your conditioned human brain cannot do Reality, but only some pathetic, limited distortion? Yet it can reflect more and more clearly with less and less distortion, which is by learning to deconstruct and reconstruct its mental model, paradigm, worldview and cosmogony over and over again. This cycle is what can truly be called Learning. It is Learning, in the truest and most extensive meaning of that word, that alone solves the Central World Problem, which is the inadequacy of the human cognitive system, both personally and collectively. Will you, the individual, go beyond your social self, your conditioning, and explore your higher and more truly free Learning Self? The social self of cognition in and through the human brain is delusion, illusion, stupidity, bondage and future shock, future suffering. It is the proud, witty, nasty and foolish evolutionary stagnation of an actual loser in the Real Cosmic World. It is a failure to awaken to the Learning Self that can truly improve the body and the immediate world through more enlightened consciousness, thinking, speech and behavior. The Learning Self has less and less prejudice. That self studies and appreciates whatever new truth-elements it finds in all the world’s greatest traditions and thinkers. That self listens carefully to what intelligent extraterrestrial contactees have been told by intelligent extraterrestrial people, such as the Ummo’s and the Iargan’s, just for starters, for there is no good or sufficient reason to limit one’s perspective to earthbound sources only. Mahayana Buddhism, for instance, was an update of Buddhism by Nagarjuna, who was a wise, illuminated contactee of the Nagas, the extraterrestrials. Not all Serpent People, “Reptilians”, eat people. Some are stupendous, kindly and compassionate Siddhayogis and Gurus of high evolutionary development, which Nagarjuna happily discovered. The great, original and fantastic inner truths are triggered by the more far-out and controversial outer truths from Extraterrestrial (ET) and Ultraterrestrial (UT) sources. Inner and Outer Truth work together as a virtuous causal feedback loop within the heightened awareness of a Learning Self. Real Learning thus promotes Superconscious experiencing and understanding in oneself and in those receptive to your superconsciousness if and when it is awake and active. Hence it is Real Learning and Superconsciousness that alone help the world. It is Learning and Supercosciousness that will survive and thrive through the cosmic mass oppressions and destructions being promoted by criminally insane leaders such as the Bilderbergers, Neocons and the like. It is Learning and Superconsciousness that participate harmoniously in the Cosmic Command that brings an increasing Divine and Cosmic intervention that will cut short the wrong plans and abusive global actions of perverse and stupid leaders on the Earth. This can and should be seen by you or any individual entering into Learning and Superconsciousness. It is not merely a matter of believing-in what I or anyone else is saying about all this. The force of growing and clarifying inner and outer Truth is the authority here. No Earthbound religion, culture, society or political ideology is going to conquer and control the whole of humanity and the global Earth. Any collective, militant aspiration of that kind is deluded and doomed to failure because it is a violation of Cosmic Law. Neither the Americans, the Russians, the Chinese nor the Muslims will achieve global domination nor culturally survive in their present form. All four of these twisted, perverse and ignorant secular and cultural military power centers are in a futile fourfold shoot-out with one-another. They are like four contorted, angry and ugly faces of Brahma, the Time God or Creator of the Earth, the Creator and Maintainer of the four most dominant Socially Constructed Realties of Mass Hypnosis on the planet, including Israel as an aspect of America and India as an aspect of China. The human brain is unable to register Cosmic Reality in any of these struggling global factions. Do you want to help the World? Then purge and reform your body and its habits, merge your mind with the learning cycle of repeated deconstruction and reconstruction, and teach your consciousness to rise into superconsciousness through Zen, Yoga and the Sufi Way. Get serious about possible human evolution, beginning with yourself. Now, since this article is written in English and made available on the Web, the majority of its readers will be stupidly suffering within one of four main Socially Constructed Realities or collective mass hypnosis delusions of the Time: 1. The Christian 2. The New World Order Illuminati Satanism 3. Modern Hedonistic Technological Atheism 4. New Age Healerism and Spiritual Self-importance, including Extraterrestrial Channelism. If you are therefore identified with any one of these four deluded groupings, you have no meaningful comprehension whatsoever of other groupings on the Earth or in the Extraterrestrial Universe at large. If any of these four deluded groupings has a predominance in your thinking and consciousness you are not yet really thinking nor have you actually achieved genuine consciousness as such. There is a way out of the cognitive trap in which your consciousness is embedded, distorted and darkened. The way out, as I have already said, is through relentless questioning of your assumptions about yourself, others and your world. By clarifying to yourself and within yourself what a cognitive trap or Socially Constructed Reality is actually doing to you, by seeing how it keeps you rotting and stagnating in a proud and stupid social selfhood, you awaken from it. Remember: if your brain thinks in English, then one of the four above cognitive blind conditionings is most probably having a deluding and controlling effect on your mind that you do not normally see. 1. If you are Christian dominated, you will always secretly feel guilty about your awakening intellect, your natural desires and your intuition of spiritual truth beyond the boring, tired old Scriptures. 2. If you are New World Order dominated, you will always feel that you must always say and do what is “politically correct” and pleasing to the political and business leaders, even where you can increasingly see that they are stupid, corrupt liars who are making bad decisions in their spheres of responsibility. You will fear being ostracized if you speak up too boldly about World Problems or obvious wrong-doing. You are always trying to avoid being branded a “Conspiracy Theorist” or disruptive crank. 3. If you are Hedonistic Technological Atheist dominated, you always believe that you have to explain to anyone and everyone that your current Metaphysical or Extraterrestrial concerns, studies and activities are “scientific” and well within the parameters of cognitive neuro-philosophy, as if you have to convince Dan Dennett that you are O.K. 4. If you are New Age dominated, you will always believe that you have to make your mark on the outer social spiritual scene as a “healer” or “in-teacher-counselor” with a growing following. You will tend to be obsessed with your social self-image and how many people want your personal attention and “help”. You are more concerned with appearing “wise” and “advanced” than you are with Learning and Superconsciousness. Do what you will, you always find yourself revolving around “spiritual” socializing, gossip and “who’s who” in the New Age scene. Can you see and feel where and how your own puppet masters make you dance to the tune of their false authority where you believe you have too much to lose by stepping personally beyond a common cognitive boundary? Do you now understand that there is no way out socially, no collective grouping or social movement on the Earth that you can join for your awakening and liberation? This is an utterly private and personal revolution in your own consciousness and selfhood. Existentially, you become an authentic and resolute originary thinker, as Martin Heidegger pointed out in Being and Time. Spiritually, you become an Avadhut, an Outsider, or what the Amerindians called a Contrary. Like Krishnamurti, you are no longer contained in a religion, tradition or ideology, but you certainly do not cling to Krishnamurti or any of his old followers at the Krishnamurti Schools or the publishers of his teachings. This does not mean you cannot learn from a Cosmic Teacher, but such a being does not advertise, has no courses, seminars or cult to join. In fact, if you cannot respectfully learn from such a being, you are probably still caught up in the pseudo-independence of your bodily habits and mental conditioning. Only a Real Learner can learn something necessary from a Real Teacher, only a Superconscious Beginner can learn from a more advanced and developed Superconscious being. Take a truly fresh look at both the state of the World and your own higher possibilities. Have you seen the full truth of your present way of life and where it is leading you? Have you looked deeply into the heart and core of all your usual relationships as to where the others in your life keep tugging you to go? How much do you allow the World of stupid, degenerate and foolish normalcy to worry you, anger you or depress you to the point of just curling-up uselessly in meaningless pleasures or keep-busy chores? Do you really know what is happening to you, to others in your life and to humanity as a whole? Or do you just pretend to know to avoid the pain of searching, questioning, studying strange books and disrupting your ordinary routines? There is a much greater truth than anything you presently possess within your present mind or physical brain. This is a cosmic fact and you have to face it sooner or later. How much you face it and what you will or will not personally do about greater truth when you come to it are going to remain the biggest issues in your life. If you want a better world, you must first become a better self, a learning self, with an unfolding and developing superconsciousness or heightened awareness. This means you will discover steps to take about yourself, your life and your future that you have been avoiding for a very long time or which had never occurred to you at all. You will be exploring some huge unknowns, not just intellectually, bur personally, experimentally. This can make your usual everyday self rather uncomfortable and insecure; other people in your life will also become uncomfortable, insecure and even threatening or condemnatory toward you, which can become psychologically difficult for you; commitments you have made with your old social self may not be upheld by your new Learning Self. Again and again you will feel internally and externally pressured to crawl back and hide in your old conditioned beliefs, disbeliefs and routine activities. Therefore, it requires a great deal of inner strength and courage to wake yourself up and live a real life that is no longer just another cog in one of the big social machines of the World of fragmentary human ignorance and false authority. Assuming that you are prepared to genuinely and thoroughly, seriously, enter into the true learning cycle with your most conscious intention, you will have to discover how very physical, bioneurological, conditioned belief and skepticism both are. Hidden controlling prejudices that dominate your personal thinking and decision-making are not merely abstract, verbal and mental, but are incredibly physical, not just in the brain and nervous system, but in the cells of your body, including your very bones. Memories and conditioning pervade all the cells in your body right down into the atomic structure where very digital, automatic, mechanical things happen that border on confirmation of Eliminative Materialism. The less genuinely conscious and free-thinking, the more conditioned and locally prejudiced a human being is, the more mechanical and easy to manipulate that human being is. Erroneous beliefs and disbeliefs are therefore not unlike other bad habits, such as smoking or over-eating. This means that the same kind of personal strategies that overcome and defeat bad habits will be needed to overcome and defeat one’s conditioned prejudices of social selfhood. In many ways, being a normal conformist member of any society or culture is the most dark and deadly bad habit anyone can have. In fact, it is easier to see the Self-harming quality of a bad bodily habit than it is to see the regional self-harming quality of a bodily rooted and reinforced bad mental habit because the bad mental habit seems disassociated from the physical neurosystem when it is actually all too embedded in it. Can you see this and understand how it works in your own mind/body system? Your own body does not want you opening up cognitively to greater truth. Are you prepared to deal with this problem? All the World’s Socially Constructed Realities, its self-destructive prejudices, are unbelievably mechanical, blind and nauseating, rooted right in the cognitive neurosystem, the human brain and throughout the biological and atomic structure of the physical human body. Human beings in general on our suffering planet do not know what is really happening to them or what they are actually doing. The entire globe is very much like a macabre puppet show with over six billion bioneurological puppets unwittingly, awkwardly herking and jerking toward their death and doom without a clue. And each Socially Constructed Robotic Pseudo-Reality feels through all its puppets that it and it alone is the superior view with the superior way of life-habits. Are you personally clear now that the Central World Problem is indeed that the human brain cannot do Reality?

great stuff and hope that Dalidakis et al wakes up and listens to this outcome... the organisation is NOT to be used for tax purposes and creating wealth for his own share base AND forestry company that im sure there is some-where to be found, it is so transparent. WHAT WOULD YOUR LOVELY CHILDREN THINK ABOUT THIS I WOULD CARE TO ASK YOU IN TEN YEARS TIME!!

In an ideal world we would not need to consider the imposition of fertility control but unfortunately our world is far from ideal. We have organisations like the Vatican in the ear of third world governments telling them they will go to hell if they provide their population with contraception. We have corrupt governments that don't care if their country is over populated and many of their people suffer greatly due to over population. Instead of confronting the over population elephant in the room back in the 50s and 60s, the west chose to ignore it and instead embark of the 'green revolution' which as ultimately made over population and the associated human suffering worse by causing the global population to triple from 2 billion to 6 billion. As far as proving family planning to the third world, I fear we have missed that boat by about 40 years or so.

Provision of contraceptives and family planning services to the third world is great in theory but, with the global population expected to peak at 9 billion plus, I suspect we have missed that boat on account of ignoring this particular elephant in the room for so long. Instead of pursuing Norman Borlaug's 'green revolution' back in the 50s - 70s we should have addressed global hunger with family planning back then. The logistical task and economic cost of providing family planning services to 2 billion plus impoverished people are truly herculean and I am pessimistic that it can be done in time to avert a human catastrophe of unprecedented proportions for all of us, including those of us in the west. Corrupt and authoritarian governments may prevent the provision of family planning services to their impoverished people, but that will get far worse as the population climbs towards 9 billion plus. In addition the Vatican is in the ear of many of these governments. Hard and unpallatable choices are going to have to be made, or I fear our modern civilisation will be a casualty of the coming global over population catastrophe.

The Australia First Party candidate for Deakin Electorate has raised this issue -calling for a review of Foreign Aid pending addressing the needs of Aussies experiencing hard times, including the homeless. It is at a href="http://www.australiafirst.net"> = 2010 election www.australiafirst.net

There's been a link kicking around population discussions for a YouTube lecture by Albert Bartlett, a retired Physics prof. at U of Colorado-Boulder. The presentation is titled "Arithmetic, Population, and Energy". www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=6A1FD147A45EF50D I highly recommend the whole lecture which is in 8 parts.

This link discusses parties that are opposed to mass migration (our main source of population growth) and those that favour it or are ambivalent. www.independentaustralian.com.au/node/73 The Stable Population Party of Australia, which comes with no nationalistic baggage, was unable to stand under its party name, because Julia Gillard called the election a few days before it would have qualified. However, if you live in NSW, you can vote for Senate Group T to get the same people and policies. If you vote 1 for them above the line, their preferences put the major parties last.

"No one is immune to it; in some respects it is the foundation of our lives. Magical thinking is a universal affliction. We see what we want to see, deny what we don't. Confronted by uncomfortable facts, we burrow back into the darkness of our cherished beliefs. We will do almost anything – cheat, lie, stand for high office, go to war – to shut out challenges to the way we see the world." - George Monbiot, Guardian, 17 August 2010 The Victorian Government between 1885-1905 made world-first legislation vesting all water and river banks in the Crown. Irrigators paid for the water they used. They had no rights over water. Graziers leased the riverbanks annually. This lasted fifty years. If the government still owned the water, it would not have to buy back the rights that were given away since then. It is just not irrigators who own the 'rights' - as they sell the rights, it is big multinationals and foreign interests who buy them - And with all the money and power those rights represent, what could the government not do! The economists with their water trading complexities assume that the market will find the best use of water – no way, it is just who can pay the most. http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/A050368b.htm http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ozideas/water.htm val yule

According to Peter Hunt, we are not currently having a real population debate!! Unless we agree with his pro-growth, big business perspective, unless we confine ourselves to discussion of how we will grow (as opposed to if we want to grow), then we are really not having a debate. This absurdistan view was recently promoted by Murdoch's News Limited Weekly Times as "Time for population debate" August 16, 2010, an opinion article by Peter Hunt, who begins his propaganda with, "It is time to start genuine debate about the Big Australia policy." Does Mr Hunt think we are all stupid? Or is his job really selling real estate?

Is State identity to entrenched in Australian culture? I think youre pushing up hill to bring down the States any time soon.

(Ed. Comments welcome below, but, if you want to help the writer of this suggestion organise a rally please let us know by writing to site contact link and we will pass your comments on to the author of the letter below. We as a nation are happy to fully support causes that we believe in. Cure for Cancer, Violence against Women, Black Saturday to name a few. Everyone in Australia is going to be affected one way or another if the Australian Population gets out of control. As Dick Smith said that 9 in every 10 Australians would agree that this is "not" what they want for themselves or their children and grandchildren. If a day and time was chosen for Australians to gather together in each State to make their voices heard and count for something our concerns could not go unnoticed. I am talking about a Nation Rally. It may be too late for this you may think as the election date is quickly approaching is it too late for this to be done? For those who are financially gaining through whatever means whether it be as a builder, a friend of a Minister, Overseas interests, political heavy weights etc etc these people don't care about what a bigger Australia will do to Australians as long as their needs are being met. Well I don't care for them. All I want is to help start this ball rolling and I believe that a Rally will show political leaders, Australians and overseas countries that we will not be ignored, that we have a right to Rally for our beliefs just as we have a right to vote. Rallying is powerfully visual and because of this it will get noticed. It's only too late when we don't fight for our rights. The right to have a standard of living, confidence and security in resource sustainability, etc etc. Lets pick a date and go for it we have more to loose if we don't!! Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing from you.

It should be pointed out to the pollies that ordinary low income people have put their money together to put this court case up and that they (pollies) would be fools to not see the mood change. We the ordinary people have had enough of snow jobs by pollies and Vic Forest over tree felling.

Mirrabooka Landfill (Atlas) is still in opperation. Its the most peutrid place to live...and even sadder, most people dont know there is a landfill there....until its too late.

Fiona raises some very good points about the failure of the organize illegal entrants onto private land. My property is on the Reserve Creek Rd stage, with the rally going directly adjacent to a riparian zone on my property subject to a 10 year commitment to the Commonwealth as a national heritage envirofund site. The rally organizers visited me and everything seemed reasonable,... until the day. As I submitted to the inquiry, the marshals failed to stop trespassers to the extent that I had 50 - 100 trespassers, climbing my trees and damaging the fence. Whats done is done. however, I have submitted some changes required for the next rally to stop all property invasion. Charltons lane was obviously identified as a great free viewing point. 20+ photographers and journalist illegally entering my land cant be wrong plus lots of freeloader spectators. 1. police to stop traffic (vehicle and pedestrian ) at Kanes rd overpass on freeway. 2. Police to stop all pedestrian traffic from entering cudgera creek rd / reserve creek rd 3. marshals not to let ANY person walk up reserve creek rd from stage start point next to kanes rd or to trespass onto neighbors property. 4. Am I entitled to stop the race if people illegally enter my property, place them self at risk (and make me liable?) and the marshals and or police fail to remove them. The Marshall basically gave up and asked me am I willing to accept the people. It became too big for me to handle. Maybe I could get some support from the No rally group members as trying to stop this myself may be too difficult.

I watched as much of this as I could stand, I couldn't stand much. The idiocy on display was painful. We had some university lecturer explain that arguments that we are on a path of perpetual population growth and massive overpopulation are "oversimplistic". No they're not. Then someone said that Australia was "selfish" for not trying to relieve overpopulation in other countries by not immediately throwing borders open to 100s of millions of migrants. This would not relieve overpopulation in those countries (those migrants would soon be replaced by new births) but would make Australia grossly overpopulated. Then the tired old captains of industry bleating about how economic growth requires population growth. Whether they fully realize it or not what they are asking for is perpetual growth, growth neverending, growth until we number in the billions. Then government types talking about "sustainable" population, the need for a "population debate", all the while very carefully avoiding any mention of stopping Australia's population growth, something which is highly desirable and ultimately inevitable but which is anathema to both Liberal and Labor. I salute Dick Smith who sees clearly where we are headed, which is an Australia numbering in the hundreds of millions or billions of people, and is trying to do something to prevent it. Probably a lost cause, unfortunately, as growing the population is far, far easier and more attractive in the short term than stabilizing it.